Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:15 am

jacdaniel wrote:In fairness to Poulsen... Cole (LCM) and Meirles (RCM) don't seem to have many defensive duties. This makes it harder for Poulsen. But i dont think he is that great anyways.

I agree with that mate, but they are wide midfielders and they fecking should have defensive duties for me. Yes if you've got a Christiano Ronaldo or a Thierry Henri it's OK to carry them, but these players you mentioned aren't contributing enough going forward to be excused from putting a shift in.

Step one for us right now is to make ourselves hard to play against, back to basics. You do that by working your b0ll0cks off from front to back, all eleven. We are a mile away from that at the moment, against Blackpool half of them didn't even break sweat.

I was no fan of Benitez and we were right to get rid, but feck me he would have had a coronary at the lack of closing down and tracking back. All this "I've been a manager for 35 years and it's insulting" stuff is b0ll0cks.

We need some graft and sweat for the shirt, until we get that we'll lose plenty of football matches.

by **lakes10** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:16 am

bigmick wrote:Don't agree with that either mate. Torres for me right now is taking the p!ss out of the club (I know that won't make me popular but I think he is). He isn't doing a tap either with or without the ball, not runnign the channels, not closing down, not challenging for it unless it's on a plate.

I genuinely think he's got the sulk on because we haven't signed any names, and he's bang out of order for me. Yes I know you'll all say "but he was promised this and that", but he's on 100 thousand quid a week plus, and is IMHo one of the best strikers in the World. Right now he is a shadow of his former self.

spot on mate, i heard that he has been acting a bit of a baby in the changing room aswell.

anyway lets see what he is like when he is back

by **parchpea** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:17 am

I think earlier comments are right in that if you cannot find the piece you need to replace an old one you just find another way with what you have available. I think Hodgson has made an error by pretty much sticking to a system that failed last season and will surely again with inferior footballers as replacements in key positions. You assume he felt there wasnt much wrong with the old system that couldnt be tweeked with a bit of different work on the training ground and a fresh outlook but at this point the problems clearly lie deeper than that. Hodgson needs to change the system or he will continue to find himself in the spotlight. Whether or not he will be brave enough to do that at Everton with little time to work at the training ground I doubt but the way its going you get the impression he may not have any longer to fix it and remain in post at Anfield. This group needs a radical not a conservative approach, a complete shake up in the way we approach football matches.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:18 am

lakes10 wrote:but to start with ship all the none british young players back home and lets start to build a club again.

Lakes with the4 greatest respect mate that is b0ll0cks, total sheer and utter.

I agree that we should switch our focus closer to home when looking for players in the future, but to have a BNP clearout based on country of origin is just madness. Just because none of these kids have come through yet it doesn't necessarily follow that none ever will.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:18 am

bigmick wrote:
lakes10 wrote:lrts look at it this way, the only mistake Roy has done in my eyes is not to get a new striker, but he did bring Joe here, the money needed to buy a striker did not come in time to buy one, and even if it did would they have given it to him?

Roy is working with a team that it was very clear last year could not cut it in the prem, we had 4 players tht the team was based on and this year Torres looks nothing like heshould and in truth i think we also need to look at our keeper, he has made a hell of a lot of mistakes so far this year and has been lucky not to have cost us more goals.

our back four need a boot up the butt, they look alseep most of the time.

SG AND JC well for so long they have been there to save us, Carra is feeling hisage and can not do it all on his own, Steve, well give him the ball and he can still do it, but too often this year there been no one up there to put the ball into, Torres being so off the pace.

It's all excuses Lakes, and I'm fecking sick of hearing them. We got them for four seasons during Rafa's time, punctuated by one league title challenge out of six. We were told it was down to this that and the other and it was excuses, I don't want the same excuses now with Hodgson, it's b0ll0cks.

The squad I think we would all agree is good enough for at least top six, and probably good enough to challenge for the top four. Admittedly Man City have shifted the goalposts as far as Champions League qualification is concerned, but we should still be able to make a fist of it at least.

Yes there is a chance we still will, but so far we are making too many stupid and ill thought out moves which are costing us points. Why oh why do we always seem to get a manager who comes in with an ingrained methodology and wants to impose it upon the club, before realising far too late that it is THEY who have to adapt, and not the rest of the football world?

Benitez came in and thought he could play a reserve team against bottom of the table opposition. It took him three years to work out that it wasn't the way to go. Hodgson comes ina nd thinks it's OK to sit back and let the other team have the ball when you're playing at Home against Blackburn.

FFS people like Gerrard, Kuyt and Johnson aren't suited to sitting, so you fecking well adapt your system to suit the available players, not the other way around.

Posters laughed at Mourinho when he would stick someone up top in the last couple of minutes and lump it in. I never did, because it showed an appreciation of a different football culture. FFS the manager needs to adapt, and just for once the fans need to stop making excuses.

I kinda agree Bigmick... but not 100%. A good manager needs to know his players' strengths and weaknesses and play him according to his strengths. For example, under Ancelotti, Anelka has been totally reinvorgorated. Under Rafa's methods and formation, Torres had been phenomenal, and so was Gerrard. The way we play just now it's just not to Torres' strengths. Fair enough maybe players like Cole and Meireless needs some time to be at their best, they are good players there is no doubt about it. But I have feeling Roy doesn't know how to use them. There are players who will do consistently well in whichever formation or system they play, players like Dirk Kuyt. But these kinda players are not key players. They are players who can enhance the key players.

The key players in our team IMO right now are Gerrard, Cole, Torres and Meireless. And the first thing that Roy should do is to bring the best out of them in a certain formation, system and playing philosophy. The first thing I would do is play Gerrard and Meirelss as the 2 CM's. Game in game out. They are both responsible for attack as well as defense. 2 box to box midfielders. Have them take each other out for dinner and have some chemistry. The 2nd thing I would do is to play Cole as a AM and give him a free role. Dirk Kuyt can go back to RW. He is the best right winger we have. This would give some much needed help to Johnson as well. The problem we have now is the LW department and also the lack of back up strikers. Sometimes a team only needs fine tuning and not a total overhaul. Roy should do well to fine tune Rafa's system and not impose a completely new system.

Having said that a manager shouldn't adapt completely. He needs to have his own ideas/style/philosophy in the way his team plays. Otherwise he won't have a clear direction. I agree Mourinho has been very good at this in balancing this two, his style and the players' strenghts. Ancelotti has been doing it smoothly as well. In the end it is all a balancing act.

by **damjan193** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:30 am

I am no anti -Rafa but I think that we should give Roy a bit more time. It was a bad start yes but the thing is that we lost points from teams with who we would have drawn/lost regardless whether that was in the start, in mid or at the end of the season... but that was my point of view untill Northampton. I just said to my self "you know, it happens" so I tried to forget it. Then we drew with some Dutch guys that I have barely heard of. And finaly we lost to Blackpool AT HOME! Saw neither of the last two games but I presume we sucked alot... I bet they even attacked and had the ball all the time. So If Roy screws up games like these last 3 then how much time he should be given? I'd give him until the end of this half of the season and I really hope that he gets us back atleast on 7th place.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:30 am

lakes10 wrote:but to start with ship all the none british young players back home and lets start to build a club again.

Totally and utterly clueless Fernando Torres best striker in the world, Pepe Reina one of the best goalies in the world, but just ship them out and get a gang of sh!t english players in that win feck all for England hey.

4 of our player where in the world cup final where was the England players? At home.

You really havent got a clue have you.

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:57 am

And at least 4 of them sh.it players who played against Northampton represented there counrty in this years world cup, another one of them scored for fun in the u21s and i think he got player and top scorer of the tournament .

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:27 am

Look im getting sick of all the some will be made up and i told you so posts regarding Roy. Yes i didnt want him here and i still dont think hes good enough because i havnt seen nothing to convince me to change my mind, but i dont want him to fail like some have suggested so it can be smug and i told you sothats, just fu.cking stupid . Why would any sane even insane :laugh:

Liverpool fan want there manager to fail. it hurts like fu.cking hell to see in us in this state at the moment but to me thats how clueless and agenda ridden some are think that because we are in this position and playing woeful and ill throw in Supported our previos manager ,that were just waiting to pounce , i and every other honest Liverpool fan would never want anyone who is at this club to fail, As i said some didnt want him some did but to wish him to fail.like some have accused us of just so we can say blah blah is an insult to me as a red ,

by **tel** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:44 am

bigmick wrote:
bavlondon wrote:The biggest mistake of all has to be Poulsen though. Sorry but he isn't cut out for the job.

Bav we needed a holding midfielder as Masherano was offski and Lucas isn't good enough. The problem with the way Poulsen is playing (and I don't know who's fault it is) is that he is trying the headless chicken routine when he is paceless. He ought to be attached to the centre backs, not running around putting tackles in.

Whether or not he is going to be ableto do it remains to be seen for me, but we did need a holding midfielder.

Meirales is a holding midfielder. We didnt need Poulsen. He was bought because he has a prior relationship with Hodgson.

Last player that should have a problem figuring out a Hodgson system should be Poulsen

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:20 pm

Was it the right to let Rafa go? I still think it was, yes. People talk about one bad year and that's fair enough but it was clear that he was starting to lose his grip. Yes, we pushed the Mancs very hard for the title two seasons back and that should have been the foundation on which we built (the proverbial base camp). Instead of strengthening and coming again, we had two vital players decide they wanted to move on. One (Alonso) got his wish while the other (Mascherano) had to wait another year but their desire to leave was a huge red flag that all was not well within the squad. FFS, if you can't hold onto key players on the back of the first proper title challenge we've made in years, you've got a problem. And, if that weren't bad enough, some of Rafa's marquee transfers over the past two seasons have been very bizarre choices to put it mildly. Sure, he's had to work within a very meagre budget but the money spent on Robbie Keane, Alberto Aquilani and, to some extent, Glen Johnson, might have been invested more shrewdly. The question of whether Roy's up to the job is indeed a separate matter and is being addressed in the manager's thread already but on the issue of whether it was time for Rafa to go, I think the writing was clearly on the wall that he'd taken us as far as he could.

by **stmichael** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:36 pm

tel wrote:Meirales is a holding midfielder.

i think that's a bit of a simplification mate. he's a lot more than that. yes he's defensive but he's also got great passing ability and can link up the play well. he's certainly not a de jong or a mikel. he's a far better footballer than both of them.

i can't get my head around why he's playing out wide though. it's a total waste.

by **rocky29** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:54 pm

bigmick wrote:
bavlondon wrote:The biggest mistake of all has to be Poulsen though. Sorry but he isn't cut out for the job.

Bav we needed a holding midfielder as Masherano was offski and Lucas isn't good enough. The problem with the way Poulsen is playing (and I don't know who's fault it is) is that he is trying the headless chicken routine when he is paceless. He ought to be attached to the centre backs, not running around putting tackles in.

Whether or not he is going to be ableto do it remains to be seen for me, but we did need a holding midfielder.

lucas is ten times better than poulsen plus hes younger and alot fitter. Just admit your wrong you always are then make excuses

by **Kukilon** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:29 pm

bigmick wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:In fairness to Poulsen... Cole (LCM) and Meirles (RCM) don't seem to have many defensive duties. This makes it harder for Poulsen. But i dont think he is that great anyways.

I agree with that mate, but they are wide midfielders and they fecking should have defensive duties for me. Yes if you've got a Christiano Ronaldo or a Thierry Henri it's OK to carry them, but these players you mentioned aren't contributing enough going forward to be excused from putting a shift in.

Step one for us right now is to make ourselves hard to play against, back to basics. You do that by working your b0ll0cks off from front to back, all eleven. We are a mile away from that at the moment, against Blackpool half of them didn't even break sweat.

I was no fan of Benitez and we were right to get rid, but feck me he would have had a coronary at the lack of closing down and tracking back. All this "I've been a manager for 35 years and it's insulting" stuff is b0ll0cks.

We need some graft and sweat for the shirt, until we get that we'll lose plenty of football matches.

Spot on.

They players have no excuse for not giving their all.

by **lakes10** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:16 pm

Ciggy wrote:
lakes10 wrote:but to start with ship all the none british young players back home and lets start to build a club again.

Totally and utterly clueless Fernando Torres best striker in the world, Pepe Reina one of the best goalies in the world, but just ship them out and get a gang of sh!t english players in that win feck all for England hey.

4 of our player where in the world cup final where was the England players? At home.

You really havent got a clue have you.

er no ciggy, what i am saying is that our youth players, our 2nd team have been filed with a load of :censored:

young players that are costing us money to keep at the club. they should be let go as they will never cut it as home grown players, yes they fit into that rule, but whats the point when they cant play good football.

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So after a few months with roy, was sacking rafa - The right thing to do?

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