Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:28 pm

I believe we are going to play one up front for most of the season - main reason - Torres - its the way he plays and the way he flourishes . He loves the space and loves to link up with a deep lying midfielder . If Torres is to leave - yes it could still happen - then we need to get Two quality strikers , if he stays we still need one as back up but where does the money come from . Ngog is still young and raw and learning and does well at times but not consistent .Babel will never be a striker IMO and Kuyt just doesnt have the game and pace to play up front on his own .

Now to the defence - for me it will be a straight back 4 from

Johnson and Kelly - RB
Carra,Agger,Skrtel,Wilson - CB can see Greek going
LB- Insua as back up and we need a quality starter - seems its goes to be a punt at Figuroa - lets see how he dows.

Midfield .

IMO this is where the mixing and matching will go depending on oppostition and players available

we could play a DM and a CM in front of back 4 - either Lucas,Gerrard and Aqualini to fill any of those roles plus Masher mainly for the DM role or his replacement if he goes . Then we have the wide areas with Maxi,Kuyt,Cole,Jovanovic,Babel and maybe Amoo able to play those roles in either a 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 .

Then there is the slot behind Torres - Gerrard ,Cole,Kuyt and Pacheco can play there .

In summary i believe our strongest line up against most opposition is 4-2-3-1 which could move into a 4-3-3 with

Pepe

Johnson Carra Agger Figeroa ?

Masher/Lucas Gerrard/Aqualini

Kuyt Gerrard/Aqualini Cole

Torres

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:30 pm

You're about 2 or 3 years too early, Mick.

by **red till i die!!** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:43 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
red till i die!! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Why do you think he will drop the zonal marking mate when he has used it for years ?

he has used it for years but only on set pieces,i still think this will remain but overall he will give more players a free run going forward and not restrict the whole team.

Zonal marking is only ever used on set pieces mate ? . As for freedom and free flowing football I'm not sure where the idea of that has come from as Hodgson as never been that type of manager - he sets his teams up to be solid throughout with a strong defensive base and a big man up front .

under rafa we covered areas not people all over the field.i expect roy to be different as to employ a man marking approach rather than be ultra defensive everywhere.
i obviously dont know what formations or tactics he is going to employ over the coming season and i really hope he isnt going to turn us into a team where torres scores 35 and carragher sets up 30 of them.
this is a big step up for roy and imo his chance to show what he can do with a big club and get success.
the pressure is going to be there from the off and he will be judged on his performances and if we turn out to be fulham in disguise then he aint gonna last long.
you never know benni maybe we could see us playing with a sweeper next year!!

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm

But roy had his fulham team using the zonal system during set pieces which is where everyone uses it ? Are you saying that Rafa used it during general play as well mate ?

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:51 pm

If I was to say Michael... even in the ridiculously surreal realm of Forum life this is a leap into the wildly exaggerated and positively premature
Roughly translated its early even by your standards mate .....

by **red till i die!!** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:56 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:But roy had his fulham team using the zonal system during set pieces which is where everyone uses it ? Are you saying that Rafa used it during general play as well mate ?

you can relax benni im not attackin rafa's style of football,but under him as i said previously when we lost possesion players got themselves into areas with the mindset of launching a counter attack rather than tracking their man.
yes almost everyone uses it on set pieces and i think roy will do the same.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:03 pm

See what you mean mate - the one thing noticed last night was there wasn't much pressure on the team when they had the ball - we seemed to sit back and wait .

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:45 pm

We were set up in the friendlies like Fulham under Roy when they had a tough away game. Very deep, pressing mostly in our own half, and working very hard to track back and close down. That's a sensible way of containing the opposition and minimising the risks inherent in an inexperienced squad devoid of the ability needed to dominate the game. Going forward - once our first teamers are fit and ready for selection - I expect to see a much more expansive game than that for the majority of the time, especially at home. It'll be interesting to see how the team's setup in the return leg against Rabotnicki because even with a majority of kids in our lineup, we should still surely be looking to play a much more expansive game than I'm led to believe was the case in the away leg. It's one thing to sit deep and essentially play on the counter, another entirely to break down a deep-lying stubborn defence, and we could do with seeng how of some of them fair in that situation. I do wonder as well with only a couple of weeks until the Arsenal game and a few key players having only just returned whether a similarly defensive setup would be excusable. My hope is that people call it is as it is, without trying to defend the positions they took on the previous manager and the appointment of his successor.

by **andy_g** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:58 pm

Emerald Red wrote:You're about 2 or 3 years too early, Mick.

how about if we all make the effort to understand that this can be a game by game, week by week, month by month look at and discussion about how we see the new liverpool under roy developing as compared to the old liverpool we knew (and some loved) under rafa? i don't think this was ever meant to be a prediction thread, a retrospective one or a post mortem one.

if we notice interesting differences as they arise then it might be worth having a little virtual chin wag about them at the time. i'll bring the biscuits - i've been rereading rbg, red and dawsons dunking research to make sure i get that bit right.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:02 pm

It is going to be interesting to see what the style of play will be - the main difference for me is what Cole will bring - essentially the same sort of creativity we got from yossi but on a higher level and more consistently if he gets back to the level of two years ago . The main problem we have had over the years is breaking down a tight defense - park the bus type - yossi couldnt do it as he worked well in open space where as cole has the ability to break down those park bus types with his quick feet .

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:19 pm

Match Review & Analysis: FK Rabotnicki v Liverpool – Is Hodgson Rafa In Disguise?

July 30, 2010 by microlfc Leave a Comment

Our analysis of Liverpool’s first competitive match of the 2010-2011 season.

* Shrewd tactical management from Hodgson
* Some youngsters seized their opportunity to impress
* A bigger result for Hodgson than it appears

Playing against unknown opponents in a far-flung European venue without the majority of your senior team makes fans, players and managers a little wary. In hindsight, Hodgson over-egged it just a little with his “most difficult circumstances imaginable” quote, but it was a potential banana skin. Thankfully the quality and discipline of Liverpool’s B team was enough to overcome the Macedonians, who were the most obliging hosts one could imagine; they were badly organised, unadventurous and gave Liverpool plenty of time on the ball.

Hodgson’s first win as Liverpool manager was just the boost we needed as completing the tortuous registration/payment process for Primetime TV left us feeling mildly suicidal. The low production values of the Jersey-based porn purveyors’ match footage did little to lift the gloom. The lack of commentary (which began 30 minutes into the game for us) left us with nothing other than a highly compressed video feed and the mournful tooting of a lone vuvuzela. It was a low key affair for sure, and felt a far cry from the glamour and pomp of the Champions League.

It may not have been the most prestigious venue in world football, but this was still an important game as Liverpool’s first competitive match of the season and Hodgson’s first as LFC manager.

So how did Liverpool approach the game and how did the match play out?

Liverpool began the game with the 4-4-1-1 formation we’d seen against Kaiserslautern. A back four of Agger, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos and Kelly protected by Spearing and Lucas gave Liverpool a solid defensive base on which to build. Barring a few shaky early moments from Kelly (who was pulled out of position too easily and was clumsy in the challenge), Liverpool looked comfortable defensively with Kyrgiakos seeming to thrive on the boos that were directed at him. Clearly the big Greek isn’t Mr Popular in Skopje, but he put in a solid performance and we think that Liverpool should try and hold onto him for another year or so. His no nonsense style could come in handy in the many cup games Liverpool will face this year.

Thanks to PrimetimeTV’s Sky+ incompatibility our digibox crashed and –infuriatingly- we missed the last twenty minutes of the first half. Rest assured, we’ll post a strongly-worded letter to their Jersey HQ tomorrow. (Or maybe a jiffy envelope full of dog :censored:

would make our point more clearly?) Let’s hope this is the last LFC game on PrimetimeTV.

We were delighted with how quickly Hodgson assessed Rabotnicki and reshaped his team to exploit their shortcomings. Liverpool assumed a 4-2-3-1 shape and the full backs (particularly Kelly) assumed a much higher starting position and supported the midfield.

When Liverpool were under pressure (admittedly, only a few times in the entire match) they reassembled in the 4-4-1-1 shape. Could this be a tactic Hodgson intends to deploy in the Premier League? 4-2-3-1 in possession, 4-4-1-1 without? As we’ve pointed out before, it would be a surprise if Hodgson moved away from his tried and trusted 4-4-2 formation, but clearly he isn’t afraid to give other formations a try. Good on him. (We were worried he may adopt a more rigid approach and seek to impose a conventional 4-4-2 at Liverpool.)

Despite Spearing and Lucas sitting too deep at times (as they did against Kaiserslautern), the formation proved effective but we’d love to see it in action against quality opposition with our first-choice eleven. Lucas showed more than Spearing going forward and that’s an element of the Brazilian’s game that we’d all love to see him improve on. Though he still faces an uphill battle to win his many critics over, he has improved and has earned the right to wear the shirt. He’s 23 now and this season will be a big year for him; can he make the step up to the top table? Will he remain a ‘lesser’ first team player or join the senior pros? Or will he be shoved out of the first eleven all together with the arrival of Cole, Jovanovic and a fit Aquilani?

Elsewhere in midfield, Spearing acquitted himself well as a midfield terrier (Mascheran-who?), but arguably looked a little one-dimensional. Although it was probably beyond his remit for last night’s game, it would’ve been nice to see more creative play from him. Aquilani looked ok, but we would have liked to see him impose himself more against such low quality opposition. “Ok” isn’t the word we want to use to describe the Italian’s performances this year. But again, it’s early days and he doesn’t look fully fit, so let’s not get on his back…

We’ve heard it said that Hodgson wants Liverpool to attack down the flanks more than Rafa. That may well be true, but it may be nothing more than a reflection on the players that have been available to him so far. The wide players in the last three games have primarily been Jovanovic, Eccleston and Amoo who are all attack-minded and look comfortable on the wing. Who’s to say that (had they been fit) Kuyt and Cole wouldn’t have started on the flanks? Would we still be saying “Roy intends to play with wing flyers” in that scenario? No, It’s too early to tell how Hodgson will set up his first choice team, wingers and all. There’s many indicators of course, and we have our own thoughts, but we’re still in the dark and we’ll remain there until we see some senior players in competitive action.

How did the wide midfielders do here? Amoo was a threat against Rabotnicki and showed enough for us to hope he gets a few chances in the first team this year. He has pace and power and could be a good impact player (if nothing else). Jovanovic showed some nice touches again. He clearly has good technique and hopefully when he is fully fit we’ll see him making more of an impact on games than we have so far.

The biggest winner of the evening was David Ngog. His first goal in the 16th minute was gifted to him following some comical defending, but his second goal was a finish of real quality. The young Frenchman has potential and –for his age- his goal return is excellent. Not every player can be a Fowler or an Owen and make their mark when they are teenagers. In fact, 99.9% of all players aren’t Fowlers or Owens and we shouldn’t assume that if a player isn’t setting the world on fire when he’s 20 that he NEVER will. Ngog turned 21 at the end of last season and we hope to see big progression from him this year. Clearly, there are elements of his game that need improving. Apparently he’s been in the gym a lot over the summer to try and shake off his “lightweight” tag. Some extra muscle will surely help him when he has his back to goal. Top class strikers don’t just score goals, they can be a conduit for the team’s attacking play as a whole. Not every striker fits this mould of course, but it’s something Ngog should aspire to. At the moment we think he’s a long way off being able to lead the line against quality opposition. He struggles to involve his team mates in the final third but we maintain: he’s young and has showed enough promise to warrant more patience. After his goals last night he showed a couple of dazzling touches when confidence was flowing (not for the first time). Hopefully he can build on this and take that confidence into the next game.

In the build up to this match we were struck by an apparent change in Hodgson; the usually calm and affable Uncle Woy persona seemed to give way to a spiky, portly old geezer. He was uncharacteristically abrupt at his pre-game press conference too. (A grumpy, tactically astute manager who plays two holding midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 shape. This all sounds familiar.)

After the press meeting suspicions were shared that Hodgson was beginning to feel the true weight of pressure that accompanies the manager’s position at Liverpool FC. Hodgson practically admitted as much:

“I fear having taken on this job there will be a weight of expectation on my shoulders every time I step into Melwood for a training session, every time I go to a game with the team.”

Prior to making this comment Hodgson had spoken in grave terms about the importance of this tie and how big a test it would be.

Undoubtedly, Hodgson is feeling the pressure of Big Club Scrutiny. Thankfully, his worries about this tie turned out to be a false alarm and Liverpool are firmly in the driving seat ahead of the second leg. The opposition were awful, but Liverpool performed well and Hodgson’s tactical choices were intelligent and effective.

Relax Roy, you passed your first test with flying colours.

by **bigmick** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:20 pm

As I said in the opener, the only real difference last night which I could be sure of was that we completely omitted to press the ball in their half much of the time, and to that end Aquilani was given the freedom to not really bother getting involved in it. I'm not even necessarily sure I agree with it (and I'm fairly sure Rafa wouldn't have had it that way to be totally honest and since everyone keeps talkign about him), but that was my take on things so far.

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:40 pm

Only thing i noticed differently about last night was how animated roy was on the touchline , barking out instructions and so on . He even grabbed hold of kelly at half time and started doing some kind of ali shuffle .I personally thought he would be more quieter during the match. I'm obviously wrong on that , just the impression i got . There's no difference really to last year on that score then . My mistake sorry .

The set up was more or less the same as in the past under THE R word, but i would n't expect it to be any different really this early on . Roy's best bet yesterday (with the players he had available ) was to stick with what the players know and go from there . It's no good changeing things so quickly that it fecks the players up . He will change stuff i'm certain , but gradually and at his pace and the pace the players feel comfortable with . On the zonal marking issue , I've read up abit about roy lately (under micks advise) and he practically invented the system . Introducing it into sweden (where every team in Swedens 1st division now employ it ) and then moving on elswhere he coached . HE WILL STICK WITH IT I'M 100% CERTAIN OF THAT .

by **fivecups** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:48 pm

bigmick wrote:As I said in the opener, the only real difference last night which I could be sure of was that we completely omitted to press the ball in their half much of the time, and to that end Aquilani was given the freedom to not really bother getting involved in it. I'm not even necessarily sure I agree with it (and I'm fairly sure Rafa wouldn't have had it that way to be totally honest and since everyone keeps talkign about him), but that was my take on things so far.

To drop it would be a mistake IMO. I'm a big fan of pressing football - we were brilliant at it in 08-09. As soon as the opposition got the ball one or two Liverpool players were on them, with Masch, Xabi, Kuyt and Gerrard all superb at regaining possession. Obviously it requires a fit, well organised team. Inter did it well in the CL last season and I think Germany could have given Spain a better game if they pressed more quickly in the WC.

by **fivecups** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:29 pm

stmichael wrote:One big difference I think we will see is what Roy does with Gerrard. Where as Rafa rarely played him in a central two because he didn't feel he was particularly disciplined enough it wouldn't surprise me if Roy dropped Gerrard back into midfield on a more frequent basis and tries to turn him into a role like Murphy plays for Fulham. From that position he can dictate games with his passing more whilst still having the odd burst into the penalty area to get on the end of things. Infact against the weaker sides at home I wouldn't be surprised to see Gerrard and Aquilani in the central two at times. Hopefully we'll see Joe Cole in the hole instead of being lumped out wide all the time aswell.

I'm very interested to see what happens with Stevie. Most on here seem to want him to drop back in midfield but I'm not sure that breaking up the Torres Gerrard partnership is the way to go. If they stay fit and Gerrard gets his form back he'll score 20 or 25 goals for us. Do you see Joe Cole, Aquilani or anyone else scoring as many as that? Stevie's said it's prefered position in the past and he's not Xabi, controlling the pace of the game with metronomic precision. It depends on what other options we have in midfield obviously but Inter haven't exactly snapped our hands off for Masch yet.

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