Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:33 am

Ciggy wrote:Carra has been going down hill for the past two seasons now, the sooner Agger is back the better.
Our defence has been to blame for the silly goals conceeded this season not Rafa. We gifted Villa and Spurs them wins.

Great, pin hopes on a player who's been injured for most of the past season or two

The goals are being conceded too much from set-pieces, not applying the system properly is one angle but if the defenders can't make it work then surely that requires a rethink? The system is exploitable, the defenders don't really know what they're doing, or are incapble of doing it, so excusing Rafa doesn't really solve the problem. Or perhaps you are suggesting we need a new back four or even team?!? Either way RAFA is to blame, he needs to fix it as that is HIS JOB.

Or simply put, the defence is Rafa's responsibility as much as any other aspect of the team. He buys and picks the players, chooses the tactics and makes changes. If it is not working you can blame the players for poor games only so much before the manager has to shoulder blame for picking them. If the player isn't good enough, he shouldn't be playing, if he is good enough then something else is the problem, but either way the manager is responsible. That's why he gets called THE MANAGER

by **Owzat** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:43 am

Good attacking game, poor defensively. Too many avoidable errors, we could easily have come out of it with a defeat. Believe it or not, we've only lost to West Ham once in the past 15 league games including a run of six wins in a row. We made hard work of it, both CBs making errors and nearly costing us three points.

Great goals from Torres, skinning his marker for the first although the England keeper should have stopped the shot. Kuyt directing in a Gerrard shot to be sure, while it may have seemed unneccesary it did make the distance to goal slightly shorter and better to be sure it was on target. Torres' winner owes a fair bit to Babel, seems brought on for tactical reasons he chipped in with an assist and maybe has earned a starting place against Leeds. I don't believe you can just disregard the contributions of the current wide players or wherever else Babel might play, simply to reward two cameo subs appearances where Babel did well. He got rewarded in a similar fashion at WHL and look how dire he was then. Give him chances as a sub, sooner or later one of our starters may get injured or hit poor form.

Both goals we conceded were avoidable, certainly Carra's poor challenge in the box having earlier given away the ball from which they hit the post. I think the errors were cumulative, from the early first mistake the two CBs were edgy and got edgier with each mistake and the pace of the kid facing up to them. But we won, three points due to three goals. That is the 100th time Liverpool have scored three in a Premiership game, their 92nd win

0 goals : P152 W0 D59 L93 (Won 0.00%)
1 goal : P187 W62 D70 L55 (Won 33.16%)
2 goals : P165 W122 D31 L12 (Won 73.94%)
3 goals : P100 W92 D7 L1 (Won 92.00%)
4+ goals : P60 W59 D1 L0 (Won 98.33%)

Clearly scoring one goal isn't good enough so in that respect I'm glad Rafa finally seems to have worked out that scoring goals is the way to win games which is the way to win the league. Sure we need to work on the defence, but you give yourself every chance of winning if you score 2+ goals and a lot more chance than if you focus too much on trying not to concede more than one.

by **fivecups** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am

What do Burnley, Wigan, Hull, Everton and Portsmouth have in common?

There the only teams to have conceded more goals than us in the league this year. Yet we are first equal on goal difference. Sort out the defense and we'll be flying.

by **FernandoJose9** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:27 pm

i don't think that they played their best, but they seem to be back on track. torres' first goal was pretty impressive, and it was good to see him score again.

by **Owzat** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:40 pm

fivecups wrote:Yet we are first equal on goal difference.

Not at any stage over the weekend were we "first equal on goal difference". We started on +6 and are now on +7, Chelsea started +9 and are now +12

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:16 pm

Gerrard30391 wrote:Then we get onto the second. Well two letters will sum up my thoughts, Z M. No Einstein required to work that out is there. I'm actually contemplating starting a goals conceded through ZM thread so we can all see them, and how many there is. I don't think people realise that as many as half the goals we concede come from set plays!

I was thinking the same thing as this bit from your post and just checked things out. It's actually alot higher than half of the goals conceded are from set pieces.

EVERY GOAL ALLOWED THIS SEASON, has come from a set play or a penalty. The only debatable one is the first goal allowed this season against Spuds. Huddlestone hits the wall with his free kick the ball goes to their fullback and he volleys it in from outside the area.

So if you don't count that goal as from a set piece (I do count it) than that is one goal that hasn't come from a set play. It's alarming as can be. The ironic thing then is that if we look at it, having not conceded a goal from open play in the first six games of a premiership campaign is very respectable

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:36 pm

The Good Yank wrote:
Gerrard30391 wrote:Then we get onto the second. Well two letters will sum up my thoughts, Z M. No Einstein required to work that out is there. I'm actually contemplating starting a goals conceded through ZM thread so we can all see them, and how many there is. I don't think people realise that as many as half the goals we concede come from set plays!

I was thinking the same thing as this bit from your post and just checked things out. It's actually alot higher than half of the goals conceded are from set pieces.

EVERY GOAL ALLOWED THIS SEASON, has come from a set play or a penalty. The only debatable one is the first goal allowed this season against Spuds. Huddlestone hits the wall with his free kick the ball goes to their fullback and he volleys it in from outside the area.

So if you don't count that goal as from a set piece (I do count it) than that is one goal that hasn't come from a set play. It's alarming as can be. The ironic thing then is that if we look at it, having not conceded a goal from open play in the first six games of a premiership campaign is very respectable

Not to take a thing away from your overall point, mate, and I'm probably just being an awkward pedant here, but I've always wondered why penalties get lumped in with set pieces. True, in the narrowest sense it's a dead ball situation but surely the circumstances are otherwise quite different? Most significant for this discussion is our abysmal defending of set pieces but penalties are not something one 'defends' with any degree of expectation or, usually, success. The more pertinent issue with them is usually (and, in both Gerrard's and Carra's cases, definitely) the abysmal defending in open play that led to the penalty rather than Reina's 'defence' of the penalty itself.

As I say, though, that's to take nothing away from your larger point: even if you take the two penalties conceded out of the equation, we've still been appalling when it comes to defending set pieces this season.

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:48 pm

I fully agree with you Bob, the defending in open play obviously leads to the desperate fouls that lead to the free kicks and penalties. What has got me even more worried is that we've already lost two games this season, and still haven't allowed a goal from open play. You'd have to think that at some point the law of averages is going to take effect and we will let in a few here and there. Further along, when/if that starts happening, results could be turning the other way.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:19 pm

Bad Bob wrote:I completely understand the "let's not get carried away" sentiment with Babel--he still has many limitations and needs to put in quite a few performances like this one to turn the proverbial corner. But, credit where credit is due--the lad was up for it today and he made a telling contribution for the winner. One of my biggest frustrations with Babel is that so often he just doesn't seem a.rsed. Today he was putting himself about, looking to get involved and generally doing an honest impression of a player with something to prove. Well done Ryan--and more of that please lad. Also, brilliant man management from Rafa...he clearly gave Babel a kick up the backside and it's worked.

reminds me of the Chris Rock bit:

"I aint never been jail"

- "What you want? a cookie?"

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:37 pm

I was really pleased with Torres' 1st goal. I had been needing to see him do that for a while. Not that I had any doubts that he could, just he hadn't shown it or it just wasn't quite coming off for him.

Certainly heading balls accurately into the corner of a goal takes a lot of skill, but Torres is not unique in that ability. Very few people can score goals like his first, he is so special, and when he has that close quarters combat part of his game working, he is unplayable.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:42 pm

on the set peice issue. If West Ham wouldn't have had a man on the post, than Kuyt would have been offside. Thing with the man on the post is you only notice when he makes a clearance, and you say thank god he was there to save that goal, but there is the unseen of playing a higher line on 2nd balls and having extra bodies in there contesting the header.

On taking corners I think we should rotate between Aurelio, Gerrard, and then Yossi and Johnson working short corners.

by **FootballPictures** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:28 pm

Great pictures from West Ham - Liverpool on www.footballpictures.eu !

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