Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:13 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
The Good Yank wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Really disappointed with Gerrard today though. He gave the ball away a lot and didn't put much energy into the game. If any of our attacking players deserve to be dropped its definitely got to be him.

Wow, now I've heard it all.

Drop Gerrard, Brilliant Idea

I actually agree. Not because he was poor, or been poor, but for the fact that our captain looks shattered. He deffintely looked lethargic a times. Still had a fairly decent game, though. Well, bossed it at times, really.

This talk of resting Gerrard is a non-starter for me for a couple of reasons. First off, he was not playing poorly today. But for Kuyt's ever-so-slight and probably unnecessary touch, he would have had a goal and I suspect there would be a lot fewer questions asked about him if he had got on the scoresheet.

Second, I think he was asked to do a job today--almost a hybrid role between what he's played for us over the last 2 seasons (in the hole behind Torres) and what he's done over the last two games (sitting deeper). I think the plan was to make sure he got on the ball and to give Yossi, especially, space to work in "between the lines." I think both aspects of the plan worked but that meant that Gerrard was neither fish nor foul: he wasn't a swashbuckling attacker nor a box-to-box midfielder. What he was was the player who was popping up all over the shop, in little pockets of space where he wasn't likely to be picked up, looking to make things happen. I thought he did all of that quite well and so I'm not as convinced as some that he had an off game.

Finally, as Torres showed us today, sometimes our best players can go through periods where they look a little jaded and, just when you think they're in desperate need of a rest, they put in a MOTM performance and show their quality in all of its multi-faceted glory. Personally, I don't think Gerrard's fecked and in need of a rest per se...although I wouldn't play him against Leeds (Torres either, for that matter). Give them both the midweek off and get them back in harness next weekend and we'll reap the rewards.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:30 pm

Agreed about not allowing Gerrard and Torres no where near the team bus for the game against leeds. I would also drop Carra and give skertel and kragon a go at centreback.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:52 pm

The Good Yank wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Really disappointed with Gerrard today though. He gave the ball away a lot and didn't put much energy into the game. If any of our attacking players deserve to be dropped its definitely got to be him.

Wow, now I've heard it all.

Drop Gerrard, Brilliant Idea

Maybe if you weren't so far up Gerrard's :censored:

you'd realize that he's been really poor lately. If Benayoun or Kuyt were putting in these types of performances people would be calling for their heads on here.

by **Reg** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:55 pm

The Sunday Times September 19, 2009

Fernando Torres rises to secure victory for Liverpool

West Ham 2 Liverpool 3

LIKE the nation’s other all-red institution, normal delivery has still not resumed at Liverpool. Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard are back in their most creative places, the goals and wins have started flowing again, yet there is something fundamentally awry with a Rafa Benitez team that defends like Postman Pat.

Liverpool were imperious going forward, carving wide holes in a laudably adventurous West Ham and scoring three times. Watching Jamie Carragher and Martin Skrtel attempting to halt little Zavon Hines and bustling Carlton Cole, however, was not good for the manager’s nerves. Benitez’s team left with three points, but play like this against the elite teams and there will be no Premier League trophy at Anfield this year.

“I’m not worried about the other teams,” said Benitez. “My concern is if we can improve, if we can defend as a team well, if we cannot make mistakes and we can continue scoring goals. When you talk about individual mistakes you know it is easier to find a solution. So Carra knows, Skrtel knows and we know that is just a question to be focused. We can do it, no problem. But if we cannot then I will say to Torres he has to score more goals.”

A year into his stewardship of West Ham, defeat left Gianfranco Zola facing the club’s worst start to a league season in seven years. “I see what the players do on the pitch and the way they performed today was very encouraging,” said Zola. “It was unfortunate today not to pick up points. The rest is encouraging, I’m sure we’ll get better and it won’t be long.”

Bold in fielding three forwards, Zola should have had a goal to reward him inside two minutes. Under pressure from England squad-mate Carlton Cole, Glen Johnson skewed a clearance across his own penalty area, where Carragher was caught in possession. Hines ran on for a free strike on goal, but with Pepe Reina struggling, the 20-year-old lamped it off a post.

Cole and Alessandro Diamanti passed up lesser chances as the home side’s aggression stretched Liverpool, but the flip side was their openness in defence. With Gerrard returned to his roving role behind Torres, the visitors were moving freely in the final third. Soon the pair combined to play in Yossi Benayoun for a shot that almost slipped beneath Robert Green. Next, a rampaging Emiliano Insua drove past the keeper’s left upright. Then Torres connected with a volley that missed by similar width.

The opener was coming. Insua stole possession from Hines and raced down the left wing. The Argentine’s pass fed Torres at the edge of the box, enabling the striker to spin round James Tomkins before elegantly lifting the ball over Green. A goal to steal your breath away — and a bizarre Benitez eulogy: “He’s keen to learn and he’s the perfect husband. He’s married, sorry for the women, but they will not have any chance. He is really good as a professional and as a person too.”

West Ham seemed outclassed, all the more so when Matthew Upson and Behrami were both substituted through injury before 30 minutes had passed. Then Carragher gifted West Ham a penalty. Out of sorts from the start, the centre back leaned on Hines as the winger threatened to round him. On his first start, Diamanti stepped up, slipped into the ball, yet still managed to steer the kick home. “Very scary,” laughed Zola. “He told me he wanted to do that. It’s a new technique.”

The mutual generosity society continued. When Gerrard rose to meet a Benayoun corner, an unpatrolled Dirk Kuyt was allowed to turn the ball home from four yards. Emulating his defensive partner, Skrtel barrelled into Hines and a free kick and corner kick later, Cole was heading diagonally across the box for another goal.

Javier Mascherano was next to hack down Hines as West Ham began the second half on the front foot. Chances, though, slowly drifted Liverpool’s way. With a quarter of an hour left, Johnson drove into a box he used to defend. The ball ricocheted back, but only as far as Ryan Babel, who looped his cross to the back post. Torres leaned back and over his marker to twist a header into Green’s bottom corner. Liverpool are back in the top three; even with their stellar striker they’ll go no higher with a defence like this.

Star man: Fernando Torres (Liverpool)

Yellow cards: West Ham: Parker, Faubert, Cole. Liverpool: Carragher, Mascherano, Skrtel.

Referee: A Marriner. Attendance: 34,658.

WEST HAM: Green, Faubert, Upson (Gabbidon 25min), Behrami (Kovac 27min), Ilunga, Tomkins, Parker, Noble, Diamanti (Dyer 65min), Hines, Cole.

LIVERPOOL: Reina, Johnson, Insua, Carragher, Skrtel, Gerrard, Benayoun (Aurelio 85min), Mascherano, Kuyt (Babel 59min), Lucas, Torres (Riera 90min)

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:03 pm

Good win, cr*p performance. That was the worst I have seen Carragher play for ages, but he's entitled to a couple of stinkers after the shifts he's put in in the past. (F*ck the peno, what concerned me was the dwelling on the ball in the first minute - what's THAT all about!?!)

Torres is still not at his best, but his 80% is better than virtually anyone else's 100%.

I thought Cole caused us a few problems but that little tw*t in the number 41 shirt ("Hinley", was it?) was on his dwarfish a*se more than any f*cker I've ever seen play the game, including that diving c*nt Ronaldo. He's obviously got a lot of pace and skill in that order, but f*ck me - he must have sh*t ankles because they couldn't keep him upright for 2 minutes in a row!

Anyway - f*ck it - we won, and that'll do me.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:15 pm

Me little tuppence haypney worth, I Was absolutly bottling it , Never before have i felt so scared every time another team has attacked us, I love Carra to bits an im not havin a go ,but it not happening , The quicker Agger gets back for me the better, Hes causing to many mistakes , although his heart might still be there the legs an sometimes his movement an positioning are not, an it could be time for Rafa to phase him out gradualy, we cant afford mistakes like hes been making, Another top class striker would have killed us today with some of the defending im afraid, an it needs soeting as soon as,

Masherano was :censored:

outstanding , well in Javier lad, an Lucas was not far behind, we absolutly bossed the midfield, Made up For Fernando,

HA HA Not long after Babel came on i said to the lad by me , just as he was about to take someone on, Watch the shi/t house loose the ball. An in me next breath i was saying how great he was , how fickle am i :laugh:

. It was a great cross though, but it was also good work by Johnson an all,

What a peach of a ball by Javier in the first half :censored:

hell i thought i was watching Xabi some of the balls he was playing,

I dunno maybe it was just me but Stevie didnt look interested today, But what a goal by Fernando, what a fecking goal.

Traveling fans were great

My man of the match was Masherano, nice to see you back Javier lad :nod

LOL Scott Parker , Didnt we offer enough money for you ey Scott , :laugh:

Erm yeh it was something like that,

3 good points though in a game i was worried about,

by **bunglemark2** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:16 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
The Good Yank wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Really disappointed with Gerrard today though. He gave the ball away a lot and didn't put much energy into the game. If any of our attacking players deserve to be dropped its definitely got to be him.

Wow, now I've heard it all.

Drop Gerrard, Brilliant Idea

I actually agree. Not because he was poor, or been poor, but for the fact that our captain looks shattered. He deffintely looked lethargic a times. Still had a fairly decent game, though. Well, bossed it at times, really.

Gotta disagree with dropping Stevie G to be honest, though I do think he needs a good kick up the swiss this season.
He's been pretty poison so far...
Today in particular he just didn't look bothered, a couple of times when Babel tried to play him through, admittedly not perfect passes to him, but SG just didn't make an effort....

by **tubby** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:21 pm

Just got back now. What a game!!!! I literally lost my voice in the space of a few seconds when Torres scored that 3rd one!!!

It was a great feeling to win it near the end but we looked shaky at the back. Sad to say but I think Carra is starting to decline and if I am being honest it has been happening since last season. I couldn't fathom starting him on the bench but if we continue to leak goals like this......

I hope Agger is back soon. Silly mistakes from Skrtel again. Anyway great result and into 3rd!!!

by **tubby** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:24 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Me little tuppence haypney worth, I Was absolutly bottling it , Never before have i felt so scared every time another team has attacked us, I love Carra to bits an im not havin a go ,but it not happening , The quicker Agger gets back for me the better, Hes causing to many mistakes , although his heart might still be there the legs an sometimes his movement an positioning are not, an it could be time for Rafa to phase him out gradualy, we cant afford mistakes like hes been making, Another top class striker would have killed us today with some of the defending im afraid, an it needs soeting as soon as,

Masherano was outstanding , well in Javier lad, an Lucas was not far behind, we absolutly bossed the midfield, Made up For Fernando,

HA HA Not long after Babel came on i said to the lad by me , just as he was about to take someone on, Watch the shi/t house loose the ball. An in me next breath i was saying how great he was , how fickle am i . It was a great cross though, but it was also good work by Johnson an all,

What a peach of a ball by Javier in the first half hell i thought i was watching Xabi some of the balls he was playing,

I dunno maybe it was just me but Stevie didnt look interested today, But what a goal by Fernando, what a fecking goal.

Traveling fans were great

My man of the match was Masherano, nice to see you back Javier lad

LOL Scott Parker , Didnt we offer enough money for you ey Scott , Erm yeh it was something like that,

3 good points though in a game i was worried about,

You know what since the England game he has looked a bit off. Even in midweek some of his passes were going stray. He is just having a slight off patch at the mo but will be back to his best soon wait and see.

by **bunglemark2** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:18 pm

Was it my imagination or did SG get some naff hairdo lately ? Looked like he had streaks or something....Perhaps the bleach got into his brain today but he was well off the mark today. Didn't seem bothered for some of the game..

by **Dazzer** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:08 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Will reserve my judgement till i've sore the fecker. Listened to it on Radio city and it sounded like carra had a tw@t of a game . Just to get things clear though. We did win didn't we?

Yes we did only mistake carra made all game was a 70/30 pen and that is being over the top slight nudge you don't see them given often.First header was teams fault as 4 of them was around carlton cole and didn't even get close.But Overall we did well we had to score 3 winners and that for me counts as a good performance overall.So march on !!!

You must have missed the first minute, mate, where Carra dallied on the ball for a criminal length of time at the edge of his own box before that Hines pace merchant nicked it off him and curled it around Reina. Thank feck it hit the post and ricocheted back into Pepe's grateful arms or we would have been in the sh!te straight away.

That said, Carra pulled himself together and looked much steadier second half.

Ha Ha yeah bob I did miss the first 2 mins did it really o well then add one more mistake then.

by **Dazzer** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:12 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Good win, cr*p performance. That was the worst I have seen Carragher play for ages, but he's entitled to a couple of stinkers after the shifts he's put in in the past. (F*ck the peno, what concerned me was the dwelling on the ball in the first minute - what's THAT all about!?!)

Torres is still not at his best, but his 80% is better than virtually anyone else's 100%.

I thought Cole caused us a few problems but that little tw*t in the number 41 shirt ("Hinley", was it?) was on his dwarfish a*se more than any f*cker I've ever seen play the game, including that diving c*nt Ronaldo. He's obviously got a lot of pace and skill in that order, but f*ck me - he must have sh*t ankles because they couldn't keep him upright for 2 minutes in a row!

Anyway - f*ck it - we won, and that'll do me.

Have to agree that little sh*ter was a complete diving freak hated every moment he had ball little ar*e hole. :;):

by **Gerrard30391** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:20 am

Well, a cracker of a game from a neutral's perspective i guess.

But why on earth do we let little teams like West Ham get back at us, TWICE an all.

OK the penalty was clumbsy but no more on Carra's part. One of those where your disappointed if you concede and the same time if you don't get it.

Then we get onto the second. Well two letters will sum up my thoughts, Z M. No Einstein required to work that out is there. I'm actually contemplating starting a goals conceded through ZM thread so we can all see them, and how many there is. I don't think people realise that as many as half the goals we concede come from set plays!

Glad to see Torres scoring again, thought Gerrard, well bossed the game through large parts. I was also impressed with Lucas

He started to play them sort of passes into the gaps between their midfield and defence. Them sort of passes that made Xabi what he was. Not for a minute am i suggesting that he is an adequate replacement, or played like Xabi today, but credit where credits due an all that jazz.

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 am

Greavesie wrote:Come on people Babel has put inept performances on the pitch for 18 months, he comes on has a decent spell in the game and nnow he should start everytime. give me a break.

It has to start somewhere , he looked good when he came on , tracked back , put the good cross in for torres to head it and also the bit at the end where he held of two players in the corner flag , he should start on the right with kuyt behind torres , yossi on the left and masch and gerrard in the middle if he keeps having impacts like this from the bench.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:15 am

Carra has been going down hill for the past two seasons now, the sooner Agger is back the better.
Our defence has been to blame for the silly goals conceeded this season not Rafa. We gifted Villa and Spurs them wins.

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