Liverpool FC Forum

[Effes]

It's undestandable to be angry but FFS, this happens to Manchester Barcelona and Madrid aswell. Calm down.

I can accept these kind of results Sabre - but it angers me when we haven't played our best team.

FFS - hardly anyone can predict his starting 11.
For me that isn't such a good thing.

When we were winning leagues years ago it was simple.
We played our best 11 every time - amazingly enough, this lead to consistently good performances and league titles.

[The Grudge]

I agree 94% of what Bigmick says. Especially when he asks for some calmness.

the remaining 6% is about the bit in which he says Torres is world class. If world class means among the best three in his position in the world, well he isn't. At least it's my humble opinion.

Of course if it's a common thought around here that he's world class, then it doesn't surprise the anger of not seeing him playing every minute, even after international games and full games in europe in midweek.

Torres is a player that makes us stronger, so is Voronin. Both provide more than Bellamy and Fowler yesteryear. But in the Birmingham game I missed Crouch, more than Torres. Voronin was almost unexistant as Bamaga points out. So the why is answered by a) Torres is not God b) He played midweek c) maybe not the best game to use his pace

We can go on about selection and rotation, but at the end what happened today is a bad performance. We should have won this game with Voronin, with Torres or with Crouch. With a 442 and with a 451. We simply  didn't play well. We didn't have patience, and that almost always are down to decissions in the pitch not manager instructions. We should have used the wings more, we should have passed the ball and make them run more behind the ball, and we should have elaborated more, because it was fúcking obvious they had not anything to offer attack-wise. It's not the first time we do this mistake, we did it yesteryear and the year before aswell. But it is the first time that happens this season.

Rafa? he might have made some mistakes, but no matter how much you want to stress that, the men in the pitch should have done better. It's undestandable to be angry but FFS, this happens to Manchester Barcelona and Madrid aswell. Calm down.

ninety four per cent!

That says it all

[The Grudge]

Ninety FOUR!!

[66-1112520797]

So the why is answered by a) Torres is not God b) He played midweek c) maybe not the best game to use his pace

Carra played midweek, Arbeloa played midweek, Mascha played midweek, Pennant played midweek, Gerrard played midweek, Kuyt played midweek, Babel played midweek and even Hyypia played midweek.

So Sabre mate the midweek thing can be scratched off as another excuse.

Also we know Torres isnt God, nobody said he is, but he is a damn good footballer and is the best striker we have had since Owen.

One more thing, about this pace thing. Torres IMO offers alot more than pace, he can work in tight areas and has very good feet. Unlike Owen Torres's game is more alrounded therefore he would of been perfectly capable of playing against a side who come to Anfiled and sit deep and defend. F.uck me most teams come to Anfield and defend and they will carry on doing so, so by that theory does this mean Torres should never start a game at Anfield and only be considered as a sub.

Yet again the excuses make no sense.

[Sabre]

But I wasn't saying excuses, I admitted we played badly. I admitted Voronin did nothing and another selection might have been better.

You're assuming that picking Torres would have meant a victory, I don't. I preffer focusing on the job done by the men who played. Focusing on Torres not playing is handy, but it's not focusing on why the men in the pitch weren't good enough today.

Missing Torres is ok, but it's not necessarily the key reason for how we played. Others like Lando will miss ALonso, but that wouldn't be the point neither. The line up today should have won, and so thought many posters that advocated for resting many men today. The same people is saying now that Rafa's all wrong for not putting Torres? ah well.

So pick  Rafa as a scapegoat if you wish, but today we did mistakes further than his team selection and tactics. So no excuses, just putting other criticism further than team selection.

[66-1112520797]

You're assuming that picking Torres would have meant a victory, I don't.

No I'm not assuming picking Torres would of meant victory, I'm not that ignorant. But what I am assuming is that it would of given us a MUCH better chance of beating Birmingham

My initial post in this thread was also aimed at the players and their performances, they were s.hit and should deservedly take the brunt of the critisism. At the end I added that Benitez made it slightly harder for us, leaving our best striker on the bench.

The line up today should have won, and so thought many posters that advocated for resting many men today. The same people is saying now that Rafa's all wrong for not putting Torres? ah well.

Not me, it was my opinion before the game to play our strongest team.

[maypaxvobiscum]

after we beat arsenal we are contenders again
when we cant bear birmingham we're not

can i use the word ''fickle'' here?

i am tired.

expectations leads to disappointment so why dont we just hope for the best instead.

[maypaxvobiscum]

but overall i am now a fan of the ''bestest elevenest'' or whatever it is called.

[The Grudge]

But I wasn't saying excuses, I admitted we played badly. I admitted Voronin did nothing and another selection might have been better.

You're assuming that picking Torres would have meant a victory, I don't. I preffer focusing on the job done by the men who played. Focusing on Torres not playing is handy, but it's not focusing on why the men in the pitch weren't good enough today.

Missing Torres is ok, but it's not necessarily the key reason for how we played. Others like Lando will miss ALonso, but that wouldn't be the point neither. The line up today should have won, and so thought many posters that advocated for resting many men today. The same people is saying now that Rafa's all wrong for not putting Torres? ah well.

So pick  Rafa as a scapegoat if you wish, but today we did mistakes further than his team selection and tactics. So no excuses, just putting other criticism further than team selection.

Voronin although lame made an impact..he tried!As for the scapegoat...There is yet again only one!

RAFFA BENITEZ was wrong!

[66-1112520797]

after we beat arsenal we are contenders again
when we cant bear birmingham we're not

can i use the word ''fickle'' here?

i am tired.

expectations leads to disappointment so why dont we just hope for the best instead.

I must of missed something, have we played Arsenal this year.

Carry on calling people fickle if it makes you feel you're right.

[AB's Red Army]

I agree with BigMick's sentiments. Life is too fooking short for this .

I spent the entire day at work thinking about why the feck we couldn't break down Birmingham. The hell with it, if the lads on the pitch can't do it, why the hell should I worry about it.

Same goes for all of you lot.

Whats been done can't be changed.

I tell you one thing, the game against Derby raised the expectations way way too high.

[Effes]

I tell you one thing, the game against Derby raised the expectations way way too high.

Maybe for you it did; most people realise they are by far the worst team in the league.

Didn't Wenger rest Van Persie against Derby today - now that's sensible tinkering.

[maguskwt]

well if you don't mind me, I'm gonna repost my comments in the other thread cause it got lost by a barrage of furious responses:

the reaction or should i say over-reaction after these kinda games is quite amazing...

I didn't think the team played too badly... it's just one of those games where the team who defended did everything right and us who attacked didn't have the lucky break... these kinda games happens especially against clubs like birmingham... who come to our stadium intent on getting a draw...

I wouldn't say it's "rotation" when only torres was not in the line up... having said that he should have started because you can clearly see his trickiness created some problems in the end...

I think kuyt did very well whether he played at the forward position or as a winger later on... his crosses were surprisingly precise...

gerrard is not producing his best in this game again... he doesn't look very inspired...

mascherano's tackling is superb but sometimes his passes seem to go astray...

hyppia and carragher controlled the backline without much difficulty

arbeloa did quite well as a right back...

crouch is hopeless at heading... the free header should've at least hit the target... and to think that there are some ppl who thinks that he can head... should sell him while you can get some money out of him and go for a class winger

all in all this is not a disasterous performance... we should all just move on instead of blaming it all on rafa... sometimes his reputation (of tinkering) precedes him... I didn't see any tinkering here..

[Effes]

I didn't see any tinkering here..

Are you blind?

So, dropping Torres isn't tinkering?
Of course it fucking is!

Listen, I'm not saying we would have won if he played.
There's one thing worse than drawing at home to Birmingham; and thats drawing when you know the best 11 didn't even start. And that's Rafa's fault.

[The Grudge]

well if you don't mind me, I'm gonna repost my comments in the other thread cause it got lost by a barrage of furious responses:

the reaction or should i say over-reaction after these kinda games is quite amazing...

I didn't think the team played too badly... it's just one of those games where the team who defended did everything right and us who attacked didn't have the lucky break... these kinda games happens especially against clubs like birmingham... who come to our stadium intent on getting a draw...

I wouldn't say it's "rotation" when only torres was not in the line up... having said that he should have started because you can clearly see his trickiness created some problems in the end...

I think kuyt did very well whether he played at the forward position or as a winger later on... his crosses were surprisingly precise...

gerrard is not producing his best in this game again... he doesn't look very inspired...

mascherano's tackling is superb but sometimes his passes seem to go astray...

hyppia and carragher controlled the backline without much difficulty

arbeloa did quite well as a right back...

crouch is hopeless at heading... the free header should've at least hit the target... and to think that there are some ppl who thinks that he can head... should sell him while you can get some money out of him and go for a class winger

all in all this is not a disasterous performance... we should all just move on instead of blaming it all on rafa... sometimes his reputation (of tinkering) precedes him... I didn't see any tinkering here..

No Torres