Liverpool FC Forum

[Dazzer]

I agree with this 94.56% I meen we attack to much early on it leaves us open very much to the counter attack.If we sat back a little more and invited them onto us we could counter them.

It also leaves us tired once the adrenalin wears off and the other team starts to attack. Its not a very sophisticated approach is it?

I wonder if Statto has to hand the timings of teh first golas scored against us last season and how many were in the 20 to 30 minute period?

Yeah thats another good point energy levels we seem to gun-ho at home.We just need to chill a little sometimes and see how things pan out almost play smarter and work the other team more.It seems to me when these mid table clubs come to us they think right LFC are gonna come at us Gun-ho lets sit back soak up the pressure and hit them on counter !

If for once or twice we sat a little more and passed them to death it might confuse them and we can tire them out.

I meen if you passed a team to death first half and didn't get a goal I still feel things was going ok !

2nd half you could then come out and pile the pressure on and have the fact they are gonna be more tired and make mistakes easyer.

[redbeergoggles]

My suggestion would not be a popular one ,but I think Liverpool need to get back to basics this penchant for going for the jugular in the first 10 mins has to stop Liverpool are well known for their patient and methodical approach to the game something Chelsea seem to be honing to perfection of late .

I don't expect to see Carragher over his own halfway line ,it just doesn't sit right with me, and this worrying trend to go all out attack after putting ourselves back into the game is seriously leaving us open to a swift counter attack,surely fans who are used to watching Liverpools clinical approach to  games over the last few seasons realise this ,because its simple to me Liverpool do not have the personnel to control midfield allowing Torres and co to flourish and this is having serious repercussions on our start to the season .

Last season was painful and I thought a lesson learnt , apparently the games against Arsenal at Anfield ,Chelsea at the Bridge in the Champions league were not sufficient enough ,as a lesson in how not to defend .

I expect and totally accept that Rafa will eventually turn Anfield into a fortress as he has recently stated, but I dont think he had Cloppa Castle in mind as an example ,we need to stop the hurried and frankly amateurish  forays into all out attack  ,it leaves the team weak in Midfield and the defence susceptible ,Rafa needs to instil the discipline once more and get back to the traits of all successful sides a strong defence and an equally adept and solid midfield ,then and only then  can we can start playing flowing inventive football ,lets get back the cohesion and basic understanding amongst the players .

I agree with this 94.56% I meen we attack to much early on it leaves us open very much to the counter attack.If we sat back a little more and invited them onto us we could counter them.

I think 90 mins is a hell of a long time in a football sense ,certainly enough time to gain control of a game with measured patient possession football whilst at the same time concentrating on keeping a stringent back line .

Am I alone devastated in  seeing all the attributes usually associated with Liverpool Football Club abandoned ,and replaced with this kick n rush football that we are playing of late ,devoid of invention since Alonso's departure surely it is now more essential than ever that we return to the basic format that has seen us collate points in  workman like  performances in the past ,at least until we can incorporate the inclusion of a world class midfielder capable of incisive passing and no little skill... Ie Aquilani .

[kazza]

In the aftermath of last night's defeat, there have been countless column inches dedicated to the villains (excuse the pun) of the result. Mainly, it would appear to be all the fault of the usual suspects: Lucas, Voronin, Babel and Rafa.

Is it though?

First things first, credit to Villa. They came with a gameplan, put in some very good individual performances and defended stoutly. They took their chances and for that alone, deserved the win.

We created a number of chances last night, however unlike Villa, weren't clinical in putting them away. Friedel did very well in their goal, however shouldn't have been given a chance to do so with the calibre of opportunities that were afforded to us. Gerrard, Torres and Kuyt were all guilty of bad finishing, even Yossi should have done better with the effort in the 1st minute. There is a worrying trend coming into Nando's game, where he is spending too much time berating the referee and remonstrating with opposition players. Rafa took the, unusual, step of making this public last week by calling for Nando to stop and punish the opposition by virtue of goals. Nando needs to pay attention.

Zonal marking - another goal conceded and another opportunity for Andy Gray/ Joe Royle to have a pop. Is it the fault of zonal or player? For Spurs winner and Villa's 2nd goal, Carragher was to blame. It was his area, therefore his man and he shouldn't have been beaten to the ball. If he was as lacking with man to man marking, it would be the same result. Andy and Joe can't really get their heads (big as they both are (if Steve Bruce starts commentating, we will all need widescreen)) around the process as, and I quote them 'space doesn't score goals'. Both are advocates of putting a man on the post, which I don't think racked up that many goals either last season but I digress... The system requires player concentration, same as any other. When this fails, it results in goals, same as any other. Rafa, whose job it is to study this, cites 20% less goals conceded from zonal marking than that of man to man. We regularly have one of the best defences in the league.

Lucas - Silly tackle, unfortunate for the og. Was he our worst player? No. Will he get the blame? Yes. Aside from those mistakes highlighted, he didn't really do a lot wrong. He linked up the play quite well and could have been quicker with his distribution but that could have been levelled at the rest of the team also. Prior to his substitution, he was linking the play and getting into the box to try and get on the end of crosses. When substituted at 1-3 down, Gerrard took his place. Gerrard last night, shows why he shouldn't play in central midfield for us. He was back taking the ball from the defence, not where he should be linking play and causing havoc further forward. We were 1-3 down and Gerrard was encamped in the centre circle with the ball ahead of him. Not good. The less said about his stupid tackle the better, just think if Lucas had done that - the internet would melt.

All in all, a bad night but not cataclysmic. We could win on Sat and Utd, facing an in form Arsenal side, could get beat. We would be the same points. I fully expect a performance on Saturday and a good result. They will be wounded, they will want to prove a point.

Our top players let us down last night, the reason they are top players is that they don't do that too often.

People are saying we are out of this title race, I mean how could be claw back 6pts in as little as 35 games?

We aren't out of anything yet.

****************

From Vital Liverpool

[bunglemark2]

Perhaps it was the nature of the result, the lacklustre performance etc. that irritates most.
Certainly that was the case for me....
I don't think we're out of the title chase but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more from the lads wearing that shirt..

[agoodmentality]

We've got 3 points from 3 games,

if we had 3 draws under our belt would we still be in the title race cos we're unbeaten?

i hope and pray Aquaman is a sucess,,

don't know about anybody else, but i see a little fat frank lampard type player,,,granted this is only from youtub e compilations,

but that's all i can go on at the moment,,,(although i heard he had a stormer in CL at the bernabeau,,which i'd like to see)

[Fauxy]

I think Aquilani is going to be sensational, I simply cannot wait for him to make his debut.

[The_Rock]

On the left, assuming Riera is going to be sold/has fallen out with the manager/isn't doing well enough in training or whatever, that leaves a gap.

Heard a rumour that we are gonna buy Rafael van der vaart (with Riera going to barcelona as to finance the deal).

Well if that happens, it will be a good move. Finally we will get a winger who is pacy....has a good 1st touch, can dribble and can put in decent crosses.

Will be good for the champions league campaign....

except van der vart isnt a winger 

from wiki

Rafael Ferdinand van der Vaart (born 11 February 1983 in Heemskerk) is a Dutch footballer who currently plays for La Liga club Real Madrid. His preferred position is central midfield as playmaker but is capable of operating on both sides of the midfield.

A typical benitez signing who gives him a lot of options..... 

But this transfer will excite me the most...... Not giving up on us signing a big name player before 1st Sep.

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2009....-robben


It has been reported that Real Madrid winger Arjen Robben is a Liverpool target and whether the club can afford to put in a bid for the £18m Dutchman or not, they really need to think long and hard about passing up on such an opportunity.

The former Chelsea man is still very capable of cutting it in the Premier League and the 25 year old would surely jump at the chance of a return to the country he left two years ago. The many changes at the Bernabeu that have seen managers and presidents come and go have left a surfeit of talents who the club simply must rid themselves of to balance the books, Robben is one of these talents.

Two topsy turvy seasons in Spain have left the fleet footed wide man wondering where his future lies and whilst he may wish to stay at the La Liga side and fight for his place, he may not have much of a say in the matter. Manuel Pellegrini has brought in a succession of galaticos and those who were present before his arrival from over achieving Villarreal are living on the edge.

It’s fair to say that Arjen’s first season at the club may have been successful for the team as a whole, they did after all win the Spanish title, but individually he performed pretty averagely and in fact his efforts were far more accomplished during the difficult periods of last term when all around him were losing their heads the former PSV man was still putting in the good displays.

Liverpool could do with some natural width and on the left Rafa is still missing a piece of his jigsaw with Ryan Babel consistently being inconsistent and Benitez unsure about Albert Riera’s value to the side. Apparently the club does not have a great deal of cash to play with, but given the poor start to the Premier League campaign the American owners may have to bring in a big name to appease the fans and to get them back on track and Mr. Robben could be the man to get the club purring again.

[Emerald Red]

Those fukkin yankee b@stards are to blame for this.....without the funding we are going nowhere

No. They are not. You cannot excuse the players or the manager for the performance of the team.

When the team performs well, the players receive the credit as does the manager. The owners play no part.

When the team perform badly. The players take the criticism and so does the manager. The owners play no part.

This is what frustrates me when we win, its rafas genius. When we lose, its the owners fault. Now dont get me wrong, im not saying that the owners are faultless, they are the cancer of this club but so many people are hiding behind the excuse of "lack of funding".

Glenn Johnson £17 million (est)
Alberto Aquilani £20 million (est)

So its fair to say, there is some kind of money there. No you have to say, on matchdays, as much as it hurts so many people to say so, the owners cannot be blamed for the performance.

Rafa gets it wrong, and the players get it wrong. Its time we stopped looking to pin the blame elsewhere and point the finger at those in the wrong. We have to win the league this year, and in our most glorious years we won it with passion and talent and the support of the best fans in the world. This year, the mancs could win it with michael owen banging in the goals for them to overtake us, do I expect more from our players? damn right I do, and in the case of Torres, Gerrard and other key players here they cannot blame the owners, as they have new contracts, a guaranteed future. Its time to stop looking for people to blame the owners and look at the bigger picture.

This club was here before, its here now and by christ it will be here in the future. I will be damned to see the club ruined by the rubbish attitude shown today by many fans. "its not rafas fault, its the owners"  BULL. I will be damned if I have to sit back and witness another poor performance  by the players and coaches on millions and listen to how its the owners fault.

Heres one for all you "owners are to blame". How much will it cost them for all the contracts given for our current staff? (players, coaches, etc). Money has been spent. And rafa has directed that spending.

Or would I be right in thinking you would like LFC to be another Chelsea or Man City and become superficial. A club where history no longer matters.

Its sad and its very tiring. Being a Liverpool supporter was never easy but by god its harder than ever now.

Let me just burst this myth for a wee second. Aquilani DID NOT f*cking cost 20 million as the press like to say. It was somewhere in the region of 15 plus extras as Marca reported on before he actually signed. Oh, and didn't Xabi Alonso exit for 30 million? Right, so Rafa spent half the money HE MADE on a player instead of them two fat-headed b@stards actually giving it to him. Most of the money Bentiez has had to spend recently in the past two or three seasons is due to his dealings in the transfere market and money gained in various competitions, so yes, those two c*nts IMO are to blame.

Rafa's three big money signs are as follows:

Masherano: 18 million - instant success
Torres - 18.7 million - instant success
Glen Johnson - 18 million - instant success

Had the man been given at least another 30, then I dare say we'd now have the squad to cope. Season after season we're being drip-fed 20 million pounds or so to spend on either one player or cut down to two or so mediocre squad players. Rafa's first year at having full control of things and he buys a first class right back, and sells Xabi Alonso at 3 times the profit. Had the man had the backing from the very beggining, then there's wouldn't be half the c*nts spitting the dummy now and crying like a baby over how we aren't good enough. End of rant.

Yanks out!

[Emerald Red]

I think Aquilani is going to be sensational, I simply cannot wait for him to make his debut.

If he's one of Rafa's first choice targets that he's actually been allowed to go for (given that he made the money for the transfere in the first place) then, yes, he will be a quality addition to our first 11.

[Number 9]

Im distraught with our start to the season!
Set aside the 4-0 at home to Stoke and its nothing short of a shambles.Just because we drew with Stoke last year twice it does not make beating them an achievement.We should be beating teams like that 9 times outta 10,maybe more!

Watching the match last night it struck me that we have no one in the team that can head a ball well at either end of the pitch!
Very worrying.We look more vulnerable than ever to crosses/corners,there is no one there we can rely on(like we could Hyypia for example).Skrtel and Carra are not great headers of the ball,most teams in the League have strikers that can at least match or better them in the air!
Also up the other end we waste too many corners as we have no one who can win the cross,again Hyypia could win a ball and score or set someone else up.
Rafa should have had this sorted out.I hear this greek guy is good in the air..he will need to be!

Also as many have mentioned the central midfield partnership of Mascherano and Lucas..This is every opposing managers dream!No major threat from the centre..our play becomes predictable and easy to read!
Masch is a good player but his main strength is breaking up play and playing the simple ball,that is OK if you have someone who can pass or play a clever throughball or even do something remotely beneficial for the team beside you but when you have Lucas(everything I touch turns to dogsh'ite) beside you its pointless.There is zero attacking potential in that MF,every fan can see it,so its high time Rafa did.For someone that claims to be such a lover of the game and sits up to all hours of the morning analyzing every aspect of his teams performance looking for ways to improve,he overlooks the obvious...Sometimes he just cant see the woods because of the trees!
As said by many Gerrard has to move back into the centre next game...if Rafa does not do this and we draw or loose,the buck stops with him!
Even if we do win its still fuc'king daft not to play him there!

Another thing....3 times Mascherano had players round him in decent positions about 25 yards out and chose to go for a Roy of the rovers shot.Wasteful,daft,unprofessional and frustrating to watch.This needs knocked on the head ffs Masch you will score about 1 in 30 of them..its OK going for those shots when you are well ahead...pointless when you are struggling for a goal!

I dont think its time to panic or that we are by any means out of it,its just dissapointing that we finished so well last season and have started so badly.We will improve,but at the minute we look like a team of strangers..this will change but Rafa needs to wake up and pick the right players for the right positions and set out a balanced team fast or we could be out of it in a matter of weeks!
If thats the case(hopefully not) I reckon he will have nailed his own coffin.

[lewerty]

well said emerald red

[Fowler_E7]

Rafa's three big money signs are as follows:

Masherano: 18 million - instant success
Torres - 18.7 million - instant success
Glen Johnson - 18 million - instant success

dont Robbie Keane at £20m and Ryab Babel at £10.5m count as big money signings?

[GYBS]

Keane was a big money flop but 10 mil for babel is not really seen as big money these days

[Number 9]

Keane was a big money flop but 10 mil for babel is not really seen as big money these days

Fuc'king £1million for Babel is mega bucks!

[GYBS]

very true mate