Liverpool FC Forum

[Paul C]

Not a bad article, worth a read imo:

http://www.sportingo.com/Footbal....g-spree

Money spent by the Spaniard has been recouped either by winnings from European and domestic competitions or selling players, and he still hasn't been given full use of the money he's brought in.

'Domestically Benitez needs more support both in the financial sense from the board, and the fans'There seems to be some misconstrued notion going around that Rafa Benitez has nothing to show for spending about £150m of Liverpool's money.

Actually, Rafa's net spend before Champions League earnings, Premier League finishes of fifth, third and third again, coupled with an FA Cup win in 2006 and Carling Cup runners-up in 2005, comes to £80.091m, and that is still discounting the new kit deal with Adidas.

Now that, divided by his four seasons in charge, amounts to £23.1m per season. If we discount the recent transfers of Fernando Torres, Javier Mascherano, Ryan Babel and Skrtel this would be a lot lower, even more so then if we looked at the money earned during this time, which could possibly equate to £50m-plus, considering that the two Champions League campaigns brought in £40m at least.

So let's take those two runs to the finals of the Champions League. Winning one brings the net spend of Benitez to £52.74m at the most before domestic earnings, which brings us to £10m a season spent on average during his nearly four seasons in charge.

In truth, £10m will not win you a League title in the current climate in English football let alone try and keep your status as a top four team.

I give credit to Benitez. To work within that budget and help re-establish the club as a European force has been remarkable, but domestically he needs more support, both in the financial sense from the board, and the fans.

No one can win the title with that budget and get past two managers who, together, have been at their particular clubs for a combined three decades or more, and moneybags Chelsea FC would be hard to beat by any manager.

Therefore, I say: Mr. Benitez, we know Rome wasn't built in a day, but we are behind you all the way as you try to repair the misery of almost 20 years of struggle and strife at Anfield.

Rafa Benitez's transfer history:

TRANSFERS IN:


Josemi Rey Malaga £2,000,000 26.07.2004
Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000* 17.08.2004
Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20.08.2004
Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20.08.2004
Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 05.01.2005
Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13.01.2005
Scott Carson Leeds United £1,000,000 21.01.2005
Josh Mimms Rotherham United £50,000 16.06.2005
Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 04.07.2005
Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free* 04.07.2005
Jose Reina Villareal £6,000,000 04.07.2005
Mohamed Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14.07.2005
Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20.07.2005
Godwin Antwi Real Zaragoza Unknown 15.08.2005
Miki Roque Lleida Unknown 15.08.2005
Jack Hobbs Lincoln City £150,000* 18.08.2005
Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000* 22.08.2005
Ramon Calliste Free Transfer Free* 29.08.2005
Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000* 20.10.2005
Paul Anderson Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Jan Kromkamp Villareal Player Exchange* 04.01.2006
Daniel Agger Brøndby £5,800,000 12.01.2006
David Martin MK Dons £250,000* 12.01.2006
Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27.01.2006
Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 01.07.2006
Gabriel Paletta Club Atlético Banfield £2,000,000 04.07.2006
Fábio Aurélio Valencia Free 05.07.2006
Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26.07.2006
Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18.08.2006
Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21.08.2006
Astrit  Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000* 11.01.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria On Loan* 12.01.2007
Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed* 24.01.2007
Francisco Durán Malaga £66,000* 30.01.2007
Ronald Huth Tacuary FC Undisclosed 31.01.2007
Álvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31.01.2007
Javier Mascherano West Ham On Loan 20.02.2007
Lucas Pezzini Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007
Mikel San José Domínguez Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28.06.2007
Sebastian Leto Club Atlético Lanús £1,800,000 01.07.2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free* 06.07.2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007
Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000* 26.08.2007
Martin Skrtel Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11.01.2008
Javier Mascherano Media Sports Investment £17,000,000 29.02.2008


Rafael Benítez bought 48 players for £151,666,000.

TRANSFERS OUT:


Markus Babbel VfB Stuttgart Free 16.07.2004
Danny Murphy Charlton £2,500,000 10.08.2004
Michael Owen Real Madrid £8,500,000* 14.08.2004
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 28.01.2005
Vladimir Smicer Bordeaux Free 13.06.2005
El Hadji Diouf Bolton £3,500,000 15.06.2005
Mauricio Pellegrino Alaves Free* 17.06.2005
Alou Diarra Lens £2,000,000 23.06.2005
Mark Smyth Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Paul Harrison Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Richie Partridge Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Gregory Vignal Portsmouth Free* 01.07.2005
Igor Biscan Panathinaikos Free* 01.07.2005
Jon Otsemobor Rotherham United Free* 01.07.2005
Patrice Luzi Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Antonio Nunez Celta Vigo £2,000,000* 29.07.2005
Milan Baros Aston Villa £6,500,000 23.08.2005
John Welsh Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Josemi Rey Villareal Player Exchange* 02.01.2006
Zak Whitbread Millwall £200,000 13.06.2006
Bruno Cheyrou Rennes Undisclosed 29.06.2006
Ramon Calliste Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
Robbie Foy Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
David Raven Carlisle £0* 03.07.2006
Fernando Morientes Valencia £3,000,000 05.07.2006
Dietmar Hamann Bolton Free 11.07.2006
Antonio Barragan Deportivo £675,000 03.08.2006
Djimi Traore Charlton £2,000,000 09.08.2006
Carl Medjani Lorient Free 12.08.2006
Neil Mellor Preston £500,000 30.08.2006
Jan Kromkamp PSV Eindhoven £1,750,000 31.08.2006
Chris Kirkland Wigan Ath. £3,500,000* 27.10.2006
Darren Potter Wolves £250,000* 18.01.2007
Stephen Warnock Blackburn £1,500,000 22.01.2007
Salif Diao Stoke Free 25.01.2007
Florent S Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007
Danny O' Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007
Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free* 01.07.2007
Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free* 01.07.2007
Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free* 01.07.2007
Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007
Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007
Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007
Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007
Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000* 26.08.2007
James Smith Stockport Cou. Free 28.12.2007
Mohamed Sissoko Juventus £8,200,000 28.01.2008
Lee Peltier Yeovil Free* 31.01.2008


Rafael Benítez sold 49 players for £71,575,000.

[Toffeehater]

well it's a very good article and coming from sportingo is even more surprising , they usually spew sh!t abt LFc and its a very good good and fair aticle

[Paul C]

well it's a very good article and coming from sportingo is even more surprising , they usually spew sh!t abt LFc and its a very good good and fair aticle

Yeah thats what I thought, they usually have sh!te rumours and b0ll0cks but it surprised me 

[bigmick]

In fairness I think most everyone would know that the 150 million figure bandied about in the media doesn't include sales of players. To be fair to the author of this article I'm not entirely sure you should be taking SKY reciepts, shirt and sponsorship income and such like off either, but there you go. Go down that route and you'll be taking meat pie sales off transfer fees and making all and sundry look like bargain buys.

But the figures have been done to death on here. I think it's just about accepted by everyone that in his time at Liverpool, Rafa has spent much less than Chelsea, a fair bit less than Man Utd and a fair bit more than Arsenal. Also, it's fair to say the team he inherited was a fair bit behind Man Utd and Chelsea, while once again Arsenal are hard to quantify as they've rebuilt their whole first team from scratch while Rafa's been here, (although as has been mentioned before, a couple of the young players which now feature in Arsenal's first team had actually been signed a few months before Rafa started, even if they hadn't actually played any games).

In the main he's bought well I think. My one quibble about the policy on recruitment has been the slavelike adherance to "possibilities" and "options" while singularly ignoring the "possibility" and the "option" of building a good team rather than trying to find two and three players for every position. Hopefully though we are over all that now, and I remain hiopeful that we will be involved after Christmas in the title race next season.

[Owzat]

That's all well and good, but what has net spending ever actually meant? Yes we sold players, but they in turn had to be bought before they could be sold so the net profit or loss on those players could be reported, but the real figure that matters is what we spent on the current squad of players (or what the squad is worth) - and that figure is not far off £150m itself.

I mean think about it, we bought Skrtel for £6.5m and sold Bellamy for £7.5m. What does that mean? Nothing. Are the two transfers linked? In terms of the money from the sale going towards the purchase yet. We still had to spend the £6.5m to acquire Skrtel, it doesn't make Skrtel effectively net worth of -£1m. The £130m+ worth of players still had to be spent, even if we sold them we might get £150m, but we'd have to spend money to put a team out. The best figure is the worth of the squad because that shows a reasonable comparison of the relative strengths of each team. What money comes in or profit that we make has no bearing on results on the pitch, if you look at Wenger's net transfers you'll find him in credit by a lot. But the Arsenal squad still cost around £65m to build, you can't say they were given the players and £44m+

[god_bless_john_houlding]

150 million is still 150 million whether we've brought in £1 or 1 billion back in return. 150 million is more than enough to have a side capable of challenging. I more than most hate the arguement of money. It grinds on me so much when people say "we need an open cheque book to win the league" IMO we don't. We've seen so often that we can spend less on players and get better buys. Torres cost us less than Shevchenko, Drogba or Rooney yet it's Torres who has scored the most. Reina cost less than Cech and again IMO Reina is the better keeper. Agger cost less than Carvalho, Gallas, Vidic and Ferdinand and I think he's as good as any in the league. Mascheranho and Alonso cost less than Carrick and Hargreaves or Essien and Mikel and I'd take our two central mids all day over any other. This is where I don't see how people moan so much about the "lack" of funds Benitez has had.

Also, why doesn't the money issue come into Europe? Does our squad suddenly cost 4 times more than Chelsea's when Europe comes around? Does the income of our sales go out the window for Europe? So again I can't accept why money gets so much attention, when it obviously doesn't make a blind bit of difference for our european game.

Also, can somebody answer me this...who has Benitez sold who we would of kept anyway? Garcia, Owen or Sissoko are possibly the only three. Would we of kept Nunez, Morientes, Josemi, Kromkamp, Zenden, Cisse or half a dozen more than Benitez has let go. No we wouldn't. We wouldn't of kept Sissoko even considering our central midfielders. Owen was off anyway and Garcia probably wouldn't of been kept with the arrivals of Benayoun and Babel for the wings. So I don't see how people use this as an excuse either because nobody has been sold who we would of kept.

Finally, it seems only money excuses us. Newcastle spend more than us every year yet we finish above them, so why can we finish above them but not Chelsea and United. Why do Man City and Aston Villa spend more than Everton, but it's Everton who are above all bar the top four. Sunderland can spend 9 million on a keeper but are behind Boro whos keeper cost them about 3 million (if that).

So just to summerise this, anybody who can answer these questions with some sort of truth may convince me that it's to do with money. 1) why doesn't money count when europe comes around? 2) who has been sold who we would of kept? 3) why does money only excuse Liverpool from failing when we've proven that we can finish above other sides who've spent more than us?

[Leonmc0708]

150 million is still 150 million whether we've brought in £1 or 1 billion back in return. 150 million is more than enough to have a side capable of challenging. I more than most hate the arguement of money. It grinds on me so much when people say "we need an open cheque book to win the league" IMO we don't.

Footballs a matter of opinions, but take a look at your theory:

United (millions)
Chelsea (millions)
Blackburn (millions)
Arsenal (millions)

Thats that one out the window then.

[Leonmc0708]

1) why doesn't money count when europe comes around?

The European Cup is often about play over two legs of a game (even in the group stages, an aggregate win over each team will suffice) so is more about the employment and execution of tactics. Cup football is completely different to league, and if in your (apparent) many years of following us you dont know that then whats that tell us ?

2) who has been sold who we would of kept?

Dont quite understand that, I assume you mean as in are we a selling club.

Thats not what the money thing is about. ITs about having the money to fund transfers of qwuality, not keep hold of players.

3) why does money only excuse Liverpool from failing when we've proven that we can finish above other sides who've spent more than us?

In the last few years, the table has been as follows:

2006-2007 we finished above Arsenal, we probably spent more than them, but less than United and Chelsea who finished above us.

2005-2006 it was as above.

2004-2005 we finished 5th, and all bar Everton will have spent more than us.

2003-2004 we finished fourth, and Abramovich, United PLC and Arsenal all spent more.

See a pattern ?

[redtrader74]

GBJH is right, money has nothing to do with success, and soon we can expect to see Gary Johnson and Bristol City storming the Premiership.

[Reg]

Rafael Benítez sold 49 players for £71,575,000.[/color]

Good to see Phil Babb´s not on that list.

Rafa must be saving him for the CL Final in Moscow...... 

[Emerald Red]

Rafael Benítez sold 49 players for £71,575,000.

Good to see Phil Babb´s not on that list.

Rafa must be saving him for the CL Final in Moscow......  [/color]

Na, he's still a bit swollen from that collision.

[JBG]

All these articles on money are pretty much redundant if they don't deal with wages.

Signing a guy on a five year contract at £100,000 a week will cost the club at least £26 million in wages alone and that doesn't include transfer fee, bonuses etc.

Calculating "spend" must include wages, otherwise its a waste of time.

[Leonmc0708]

All these articles on money are pretty much redundant if they don't deal with wages.

Signing a guy on a five year contract at £100,000 a week will cost the club at least £26 million in wages alone and that doesn't include transfer fee, bonuses etc.

Calculating "spend" must include wages, otherwise its a waste of time.

I have never seen any calculation that did that mate, not once.

Also wages = running costs, not oulay.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

1) why doesn't money count when europe comes around?

The European Cup is often about play over two legs of a game (even in the group stages, an aggregate win over each team will suffice) so is more about the employment and execution of tactics. Cup football is completely different to league, and if in your (apparent) many years of following us you dont know that then whats that tell us ?

2) who has been sold who we would of kept?

Dont quite understand that, I assume you mean as in are we a selling club.

Thats not what the money thing is about. ITs about having the money to fund transfers of qwuality, not keep hold of players.

3) why does money only excuse Liverpool from failing when we've proven that we can finish above other sides who've spent more than us?

In the last few years, the table has been as follows:

2006-2007 we finished above Arsenal, we probably spent more than them, but less than United and Chelsea who finished above us.

2005-2006 it was as above.

2004-2005 we finished 5th, and all bar Everton will have spent more than us.

2003-2004 we finished fourth, and Abramovich, United PLC and Arsenal all spent more.

See a pattern ?

1) what difference does it make. It's the same players playing in the league as it is in europe. It's the same manager. It's the same need to win in league as it is europe.

2) People say that we constantly have to sell to fund transfers, but who exactly has been sold who would of been kept?

3) Newcastle have finished behind us year in year out and spend more than us, do you see a pattern?

Money is yet another excuse for people to use. Lets be quite honest, the truth is this current Liverpool side bottle it so often in the league. When United get beat you see Ferguson give his players a bollocking. Ferguson won't allow his players to under perform. If it'd been Carrick who got sent off like Mascheranho between us and united, you wouldn't of seen Ferguson consolling Carrick you'd see Carrick and the ref getting a bollocking. That's the difference, our players are allowed to just ponce around during games. Not enough pride and passion exists in our squad or staff anymore. That's the difference, not money, not time, not tactics but sheer lack of pride and passion.

[Leonmc0708]

1) why doesn't money count when europe comes around?

The European Cup is often about play over two legs of a game (even in the group stages, an aggregate win over each team will suffice) so is more about the employment and execution of tactics. Cup football is completely different to league, and if in your (apparent) many years of following us you dont know that then whats that tell us ?

2) who has been sold who we would of kept?

Dont quite understand that, I assume you mean as in are we a selling club.

Thats not what the money thing is about. ITs about having the money to fund transfers of qwuality, not keep hold of players.

3) why does money only excuse Liverpool from failing when we've proven that we can finish above other sides who've spent more than us?

In the last few years, the table has been as follows:

2006-2007 we finished above Arsenal, we probably spent more than them, but less than United and Chelsea who finished above us.

2005-2006 it was as above.

2004-2005 we finished 5th, and all bar Everton will have spent more than us.

2003-2004 we finished fourth, and Abramovich, United PLC and Arsenal all spent more.

See a pattern ?

1) what difference does it make. It's the same players playing in the league as it is in europe. It's the same manager. It's the same need to win in league as it is europe.

2) People say that we constantly have to sell to fund transfers, but who exactly has been sold who would of been kept?

3) Newcastle have finished behind us year in year out and spend more than us, do you see a pattern?

Money is yet another excuse for people to use. Lets be quite honest, the truth is this current Liverpool side bottle it so often in the league. When United get beat you see Ferguson give his players a bollocking. Ferguson won't allow his players to under perform. If it'd been Carrick who got sent off like Mascheranho between us and united, you wouldn't of seen Ferguson consolling Carrick you'd see Carrick and the ref getting a bollocking. That's the difference, our players are allowed to just ponce around during games. Not enough pride and passion exists in our squad or staff anymore. That's the difference, not money, not time, not tactics but sheer lack of pride and passion.

Get a clue lad.