The striker situation. - We obviously need somebody......

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Postby bigmick » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:47 am

I haven't got involved in the Michael Owen but it has opened up a bit of a can of worms, and that is the issue of our strikers. Now regardless of what anybody thinks of any of them, totally putting aside any of our opinions on the individual players concerned, it seems to me that we desperately need to sign at least one in January.

The reason I say this? Well firstly nobody can be sure in the short to medium term that Torres is going to available on a  regular basis. My feeling is from having seen such injuries in similar types of players before, we are going to have to live with the fact that he is going to be injured a couple of times EACH SEASON. Even if I'm wrong, he can't play every game anyway.

Now he is obviously a World-class striker, but if he doesn't play what are Rafa's options? It seems to me there sre four options available to the manager apart from Torres. He has Keane, who unlike Torres apears unable to play up top on his own. Even if we take the view that Keane is about to reproduce his very best form, if Torres isn't there he needs a partner, and he can't play every game either.

We have Kuyt, who can play both as a lone striker or in a pair. These are both undesireable options though for two reasons. Firstly he doesn't actually score goals or look like scoring them when he plays up front, and secondly and more importantly Rafa needs him on the right.

We also have Babel, but the manager seemingly doesn't fancy him as a striker at all. Once again I urge you to put aside your own feelings, from the managers point of view Babel isn't an option as a striker. End of, as someone once said.

That leaves Egg Nog. I don't know what to say really.

So there you go, at our absolute best and most optimistic outlook, Rafa has three strikers in Torres, Keane, Kuyt and Egg Nog as an up and comer. One of his main three is injured, one of them is a regular in his best team at right midfield, and one of them is currently hapless. The up and comer maybe a while coming, so in my judgement we are probably two strikers light, never mind one.

Owen anyone       :D
Last edited by bigmick on Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bermenstein » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:08 am

I honestly believe the problem is not with the strikers, but with the supply to the strikers.

Against the shitty teams, why do we have 2 holding mid fielders most times, with Alonso & Mascherano occupying the same positions? In those games we are expecting to win, i think Benayouin is the ideal attack mid fielder to play in behind the strikers to supply them with the through balls etc..

Also the full back situation needs to be addressed. Arbeloa has improved imo, although he can be light weight sometimes. But we are short on the left. Maybe Dossena needs more time to settle in, so maybe he will improve for the 2nd half of the season.

Also  I don't understand how or why Stevie Finnan was aloud to leave so easily. He was reliable and he still had a couple of top flight football years ahead of him.

We have Torres, Keane, Kuyt & Babel as strikers. We should not need anymore, but it does seem we are lacking. I say no to Heskey & Owen.
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Postby bigmick » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:15 am

But what I'm saying Berm, is all that stuff needs to be put to one side for a second. Just purely in terms of numbers, forgetting about whether they are fit, good enough, getting good service etc we need at least one striker. We currently have Torres and Keane who are proper strikers, albeit injured in one case and out of form in the other. We also have kuyt who probably everyone would accept these days is actually a right midifelder more than he is a striker, we have Babel who regardless of what anyone thinks the manager clearly doesn't fancy as a front man at all. We also have Egg Nog.

So to my mind, we have two genuine strikers and need at least one more. Regardless of service, form, injuries or anything else, it's a simple question of mathematics.
Last edited by bigmick on Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bermenstein » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:18 am

bigmick wrote:......So to my mind, we have two genuine strikers and need at least one more. Regardless of service, form, injuries or anything else, it's a simple question of mathematics.

Well I suppose if Rafa ain't gonna use Babel or Kuyt no matter what the circumstances, as strikers, well then yes we definitely do need an extra striker.

Rafa is used to playing players out of position, so I dont understand why he does not use Babel as a CF. Afterall, he cultivated Kuyt into a Right Mid from a striker. Why can he not reposition Babel from Left Mid to a striker? (In his mind)

Has he ever Played Babel as a center Forward?
Would be interesting to see what he is like with his pace & power.
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Postby skatesy » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:42 am

I agree that we need another striker, absolutely.

When the summer transfer period came to a close and we picked Keane I thought that this notion would have been put to good as I felt that Keane would fill the "extra striker gap". And, optimistically, I hope that he will come good and fill that gap. Although I become more pessimistic week in and week out, I still think that he will come good. However, unfortunately, we do not know. It is very possible that Keane may just not fit in. However, in order to cover all cases I think that we need to invest in a strong, proven, YOUNG striker. I think that considering players like Owen is completely useless and not moving us forward. Simply because of the fact that Owen is both past his prime and hasn't been playing well in a long time. Oh and, let's not forget his constant injury problems over the past couple of years. Owen is DEFINITELY not an option if we are going to contend this year and into the future.

I need to spend more time looking at the possible options that Rafa has to dish out on a striker, but I strongly think that we need someone who is a good second striker, young, and in the range of 13-17 million.

If we do pick up someone with this profile, and do not sacrifice Keane to fund the acquisition then hopefully Keane will come good and then we will have three strong strikers to regularly use. Keep Kuyt on the right, and all the problems may be solved with our striking problems.
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Postby Owzat » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:26 am

I think even if only as a stop gap measure, making a move for Owen could win us the title. He's had his share of injuries but still scores goals. And while some Newcastle fans I've exchanged views with are not impressed (because his goals aren't always winners and he scores consolations, not his fault mind), EIGHT goals in 14 appearances is THREE more goals than Torres has scored this season in two less appearances for a much weaker side. He wouldn't cost the earth to bring back, would give the whole squad a lift - except maybe Keane - and can we really afford to turn our nose up at him for what can only be non-footballing reasons when he still scores every other game?

Bermenstein - so if Rafa isn't going to use Kuyt as a striker "no matter what the circumstances", what role do you think Kuyt played yesterday?
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Postby bigmick » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:44 am

He uses Kuyt as a striker under sufference though Owz, because there is little doubt in my mind that kuyt on the right side of midfield is where Rafa would pick him in a must win game. Equally, on the question of Keane I think some are missing the point of my topic starter. Even if Keane was absolutely on fire and Torres was as fit as a fiddle, we are STILL short of a striker. If we choose to play 4-4-2 (which I think Rafa intended at the start of the season) then we have Babel (who the manager NEVER plays up top), and Egg Nog as potential replacements. That is unless we decide to weaken the team by moving Kuyt from the right side of midfield.

My point is broadly that if we are never ever going to play Babel as a striker (which it appears we aren't) then we are at least one striker short. If you expand on that and don't really rate Egg Nog, or take the view that Kuyt is a far better player on the right, then we are two short. Quite simply we haven't got a credible replacement for either Tores or Keane, and as such we desperately need a striker.
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Postby Madmax » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:13 pm

It is crystal clear we need a striker in january. Like explained by mick we look short of talent up front. Kuyt and babel are played out of position. I feel kuyt is better on the right than upfront. Its doesnt look like rafa will bring owen back. who do you think will be ideal? I wouldnt mind Obafemi Martins. The guys a good striker and could score aswel. But i doubt it newcastle would let him go. I would rather have someone young then have a golden oldie. Torres is our only striker with many years to come at anfield. Keane aint got that long to go and babel well i dont think he will ever be used as a fixed forward. Martins is young and ruthless at times. What do you guys think? would he fit in
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Postby burjennio » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:18 pm

Roque Santa Cruz IMO would be the best striker we could sign. a different kind of player to the other types of players we have, outstanding in the air, brings others into the game but also a quality finisher. Sadly i think he would cost about £15m+ which i really dont think we have ATM. The big bonus about himis that I believe he would compliment Torres AND Keane.
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Postby tubby » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:51 pm

When is his contract up? If we were going to spend we would be better of going for someone younger like Podolski or Gomez. We are skint though so Owen probably sems like the best option.
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Postby Petar » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:00 pm

Bermenstein wrote:I honestly believe the problem is not with the strikers, but with the supply to the strikers.

Against the shitty teams, why do we have 2 holding mid fielders most times, with Alonso & Mascherano occupying the same positions? In those games we are expecting to win, i think Benayouin is the ideal attack mid fielder to play in behind the strikers to supply them with the through balls etc..

Also the full back situation needs to be addressed. Arbeloa has improved imo, although he can be light weight sometimes. But we are short on the left. Maybe Dossena needs more time to settle in, so maybe he will improve for the 2nd half of the season.

Also  I don't understand how or why Stevie Finnan was aloud to leave so easily. He was reliable and he still had a couple of top flight football years ahead of him.

We have Torres, Keane, Kuyt & Babel as strikers. We should not need anymore, but it does seem we are lacking. I say no to Heskey & Owen.

My thoughts exactly. Alonso, Gerrard,Masch are hardworkers,except maybe alonso,but he is lying too deep to made an impact in final third. These 3 are passing the ball sideways all the time,they have not technique to trick and dribble players occasionally. They can`t pass a fantastic,intelligent through ball like Kaka,Deco,Riquelme,Diego. They have other qualities and that is OK. WE had Baros,Kuyt,Cisse,Keane,Morientes,Bellamy,Crouch,Mellor,Torres. The only one who has status of fantastic striker at LFC is Torres. But he is not usually type of striker who needs supply from the midfield. He usually takes the ball 40 yards away from goal and manages to score it,because he is strong and quick. But 97 percent of strikers needs good midfield,good moving and few quality through balls per match... But Diego type of player is not welcomed here in Rafa`s era... Ou strikers are the best in premier league,though
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Postby Alex G. » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:06 pm

I think our main problem is not the strikers but the wings, very poor for a title contender. That´s why Rafa doesn´t put Babel as striker (as he would like), he is the only decent substitute for  Riera on the left wing.
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Postby tubby » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:08 pm

If we got rid of Babel, boguht Owen we could still get someone half decent if you add to that money from Pennant ect..
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Postby Petar » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:12 pm

bavlondon wrote:If we got rid of Babel, boguht Owen we could still get someone half decent if you add to that money from Pennant ect..

hahaha,you will not understand football for 100 years,I know few more these guys. Did you play football with your mates. You must be goalie,or the headless chicken lad who tries his best,but lack of vision desperately
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Postby burjennio » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Petar Posted on Dec. 07 2008,14:12
Quote (bavlondon @ Dec. 07 2008,14:08)
If we got rid of Babel, boguht Owen we could still get someone half decent if you add to that money from Pennant ect..

hahaha,you will not understand football for 100 years,I know few more these guys. Did you play football with your mates. You must be goalie,or the headless chicken lad who tries his best,but lack of vision desperately


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