Liverpool FC Forum

[only me]

Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

We should re-sign Rafa so we can sack him one more time!

One of the worst scouts and money manager one could find. The Farce of Keane and Aqua were the toppin on the cake ,let alone Lucas and Babel - Releasing the likes of Hyppia and Crouch and Bellami and Even Sissoko. The man had eye for Talent no doubt. The man is a cup type manager ,give him one game to prepare for he is almost a match to no one ,give him a year to plan and a squad to build he is a total failure.

Bring him back so we can kick him out again...I would fire him just for his post game interviews.

F*cking hell.

Do us a favour and stop repeating bollox you hear in the papers and off Sky Sports, please. Bet you listen to Talk Sh*te n' all.

Yep most convincing argument i read in a while now....Keane/Aqua/Lucasa/Babel/Courch/Sissoko/Hyppia/Bellami..Choose where to start and correct me if i'm wrong. I'm always happy to learn. Till then Rafa after 5 years wasting club money ,leaving no foundation behind ,getting the boot was the best thing to do.

[dawson99]

But Cigs, cant you see, if he brought well he wouldnt have had to sell to buy 76 players!!!!

He did buy well. Our squad had more players in the world cup than any other side. We've international standard players who get picked for their countries on a regular basis in almost every position. When the team was firing, I rememember practically everyone on this board was in agreement that the first 11 was as good as anything else out there, but we were just a few lacking in a bit of depth for the bench. So what's changed now? All of a sudden we've gone from having a first team full of quality, to a p*ss poor team that was mishandled by the previous manager because he bought poorly? Fact is, when players like Mascherano leave and you replace with players like Poulson, send a 17 milllion pounds worth midfielder out on loan, and then bemoan that we've not got enough quality in our middle or aren't creating goal chances is poor handling of squad resources. What was the point in buying a player like Mereiles and playing him out wide right in the midfield when you could keep the money and Aquilani and buy a secondary striker. Something that Rafa failed to do and something that it was obvious that we needed? That blows any of Rafa's mistakes in the transfer window clean out of the water for stupidity IMO.

most players in the world cup means nothing when the premiership is concerned mate. look at the list of who he brought. When we had money probs he was buying and selling like a complete nutjob. Yeah a 1st 11 is all well and good, but if the 2nd 11 cant beat Acrington Stanley whats the point?

Too many mistakes, too many bad games, to many bad dealings with the players,. he had to go

[zarababe]

not even got the energy for any self lovin lately

the team didnt wanna play for Rafa last season, some say some would have left. Roy needs to sort himself out, but this thread is if it was right to sack Rafa, and it was... massively right, and thats what is splitting the fans right down the centre

..says who ?

We were not right to sack rafa and replace him with roy..

we replaced him with roy becasue that was the extent of the 'ambition' of the current custodians..

there ambition matches their purse.. empty..empty - defecit

.. knew you lot were not getting nuff lovin.. makes ya hard and unsympathetic 

[Emerald Red]

Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

We should re-sign Rafa so we can sack him one more time!

One of the worst scouts and money manager one could find. The Farce of Keane and Aqua were the toppin on the cake ,let alone Lucas and Babel - Releasing the likes of Hyppia and Crouch and Bellami and Even Sissoko. The man had eye for Talent no doubt. The man is a cup type manager ,give him one game to prepare for he is almost a match to no one ,give him a year to plan and a squad to build he is a total failure.

Bring him back so we can kick him out again...I would fire him just for his post game interviews.

F*cking hell.

Do us a favour and stop repeating bollox you hear in the papers and off Sky Sports, please. Bet you listen to Talk Sh*te n' all.

Yep most convincing argument i read in a while now....Keane/Aqua/Lucasa/Babel/Courch/Sissoko/Hyppia/Bellami..Choose where to start and correct me if i'm wrong. I'm always happy to learn. Till then Rafa after 5 years wasting club money ,leaving no foundation behind ,getting the boot was the best thing to do.

I'll point out how daft your argument by saying that Bellamy was shipped on to fund the Torres deal. The rest likewise. As many others have argued, a buy to sell, sell to buy policy. You can't keep every f*cking player you buy. This isn't Football Manager. Case closed.

[dawson99]

not even got the energy for any self lovin lately

the team didnt wanna play for Rafa last season, some say some would have left. Roy needs to sort himself out, but this thread is if it was right to sack Rafa, and it was... massively right, and thats what is splitting the fans right down the centre

..says who ?

We were not right to sack rafa and replace him with roy..

we replaced him with roy becasue that was the extent of the 'ambition' of the current custodians..

there ambition matches their purse.. empty..empty - defecit

.. knew you lot were not getting nuff lovin.. makes ya hard and unsympathetic 

We were not right to sack rafa and replace him with roy..

Thats not the question!!! Its if we were right to sack Rafa.. yes we were

now come round and sort me out so i stop being mean to everyone 

[Emerald Red]

But Cigs, cant you see, if he brought well he wouldnt have had to sell to buy 76 players!!!!

He did buy well. Our squad had more players in the world cup than any other side. We've international standard players who get picked for their countries on a regular basis in almost every position. When the team was firing, I rememember practically everyone on this board was in agreement that the first 11 was as good as anything else out there, but we were just a few lacking in a bit of depth for the bench. So what's changed now? All of a sudden we've gone from having a first team full of quality, to a p*ss poor team that was mishandled by the previous manager because he bought poorly? Fact is, when players like Mascherano leave and you replace with players like Poulson, send a 17 milllion pounds worth midfielder out on loan, and then bemoan that we've not got enough quality in our middle or aren't creating goal chances is poor handling of squad resources. What was the point in buying a player like Mereiles and playing him out wide right in the midfield when you could keep the money and Aquilani and buy a secondary striker. Something that Rafa failed to do and something that it was obvious that we needed? That blows any of Rafa's mistakes in the transfer window clean out of the water for stupidity IMO.

most players in the world cup means nothing when the premiership is concerned mate. look at the list of who he brought. When we had money probs he was buying and selling like a complete nutjob. Yeah a 1st 11 is all well and good, but if the 2nd 11 cant beat Acrington Stanley whats the point?

Too many mistakes, too many bad games, to many bad dealings with the players,. he had to go

Daws, whether you agree with it or not, we became a selling club before and especially after the Yanks took over. The most important thing is, is that Rafa bought in players and either improved them, or developed them enough to sell them on for a profit, and still had us competing for honours, which is more than Wenger did working under far better circumstances, but similar regarding a stringent budget.

[dawson99]

no he didnt.... 76 players!!!!! and no one liked working for him in the end. it wa his time to go. he was class for us, got us some great players, but too many mistakes

[only me]

Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

We should re-sign Rafa so we can sack him one more time!

One of the worst scouts and money manager one could find. The Farce of Keane and Aqua were the toppin on the cake ,let alone Lucas and Babel - Releasing the likes of Hyppia and Crouch and Bellami and Even Sissoko. The man had eye for Talent no doubt. The man is a cup type manager ,give him one game to prepare for he is almost a match to no one ,give him a year to plan and a squad to build he is a total failure.

Bring him back so we can kick him out again...I would fire him just for his post game interviews.

F*cking hell.

Do us a favour and stop repeating bollox you hear in the papers and off Sky Sports, please. Bet you listen to Talk Sh*te n' all.

Yep most convincing argument i read in a while now....Keane/Aqua/Lucasa/Babel/Courch/Sissoko/Hyppia/Bellami..Choose where to start and correct me if i'm wrong. I'm always happy to learn. Till then Rafa after 5 years wasting club money ,leaving no foundation behind ,getting the boot was the best thing to do.

I'll point out how daft your argument by saying that Bellamy was shipped on to fund the Torres deal. The rest likewise. As many others have argued, a buy to sell, sell to buy policy. You can't keep every f*cking player you buy. This isn't Football Manager. Case closed.

You crack me up  ,Rafa released good proven players for the Club nobody knows why and how ,I doubt buying Torres was for a second depended on selling Bellami ,But that is the most minor example you can pick on. Keane and Aqua were HUGE mistakes no excuse whatsoever ,period - Paying Millions over injured and overated players when you KNOW that your budget is limited is the worst money management one can display. And as to redeem yourself you insist on Lucas and Babel which failed miserably...And Hyppia? a player which was our biggest threat on set pieces ,dominatated the air battles - later on moved to lead Bayer Leverkuzen to Championship battles in Germany? And Crouch? And Alonsi? And Riera? The eyes don't lie ,it's not football manager ,it's what you see day in day out ,Rafa got cought in his own perception he is some kind of genious tactician which can pull a rabbit at any time even if you buy Crappy players. Move on.

[NANNY RED]

ERR Rafas gone. Yep he,s gone. Now close this pointless thread. I mean whats THE POINT?

But we might have to open it again   

Honestly speaking, I would've loved it if Rafa came back under the new managers Nanny. At least he will have the chance build on the promising first 3 seasons he had. But if Rafa could not get us into the top 4 or shows substantial improvement in how the team plays, then it's time to forget about Rafa and move on to new directions like Joachim Lowe.

Do you know what mate thats why i would of kept him , ive said all along i would of  just love to see him be given time under different owners. No polatics no nothing going on good settled board ,no wheeling and dealing  then if he fecked it up by all means off you go Rafa , But he went and just like we knew it  would happen he was replaced with a manager way below the class that we expected ,  You have to replace class for class and in my opinion we havnt done that , we have dropped several rungs of the ladder , People keep saying its Rafa team , were we ever in this position when he was here , Its Roy picking the team now not Rafa and we have added to the team , Its Roys tactics not Rafas , So yep unless were brought in as i said class for class i do think we were wrong ,

[zarababe]

Paul - who said no-one wanted to play for him.. Mascha wanted to join him again.. and stayed at his request another year

ER is right Alonso - who ? Improved
Torres - ? credits Rafa with his improvemnt
Mascha was dying at WH - is captain of Argentina

[maypaxvobiscum]

But Cigs, cant you see, if he brought well he wouldnt have had to sell to buy 76 players!!!!

He did buy well. Our squad had more players in the world cup than any other side. We've international standard players who get picked for their countries on a regular basis in almost every position. When the team was firing, I rememember practically everyone on this board was in agreement that the first 11 was as good as anything else out there, but we were just a few lacking in a bit of depth for the bench. So what's changed now? All of a sudden we've gone from having a first team full of quality, to a p*ss poor team that was mishandled by the previous manager because he bought poorly? Fact is, when players like Mascherano leave and you replace with players like Poulson, send a 17 milllion pounds worth midfielder out on loan, and then bemoan that we've not got enough quality in our middle or aren't creating goal chances is poor handling of squad resources. What was the point in buying a player like Mereiles and playing him out wide right in the midfield when you could keep the money and Aquilani and buy a secondary striker. Something that Rafa failed to do and something that it was obvious that we needed? That blows any of Rafa's mistakes in the transfer window clean out of the water for stupidity IMO.

most players in the world cup means nothing when the premiership is concerned mate. look at the list of who he brought. When we had money probs he was buying and selling like a complete nutjob. Yeah a 1st 11 is all well and good, but if the 2nd 11 cant beat Acrington Stanley whats the point?

Too many mistakes, too many bad games, to many bad dealings with the players,. he had to go

Daws, whether you agree with it or not, we became a selling club before and especially after the Yanks took over. The most important thing is, is that Rafa bought in players and either improved them, or developed them enough to sell them on for a profit, and still had us competing for honours, which is more than Wenger did working under far better circumstances, but similar regarding a stringent budget.

100% rubbish.

96/97 - Arsenal 3rd
97/98 - Arsenal Champions
98/99, 99/00, 00,01 - Arsenal 2nd for all those seasons
01/02 - Arsenal Champions
02/03 - Arsenal 2nd
03/04 - Arsenal Champions
04/05 - Arsenal 2nd, Liverpool 5th
05/06 - Liverpool 3rd, Arsenal 4th
06/07 - Arsenal and Liverpool same points
07/08 - Arsenal 3rd, Liverpool 4th
08/09 - Liverpool 2nd, Arsenal 4th
09/10 - Arsenal 3rd, Liverpool 7th

[dawson99]

yeah Rafa just needs more time.. that 5 or 6 years just wasnt enough to ruin the club LOL

Zara, its all rumours about what the team thought, but the whispers are they were bored of him and his ways... as were we... the only reaon we cant see it is the situation we're in now. but Rafa had his chance, he had a shedload of opportunities which he didnt take.. and im happy hes gone, now we cn move forwards i hope

[Thommo's perm]

But Cigs, cant you see, if he brought well he wouldnt have had to sell to buy 76 players!!!!

He did buy well. Our squad had more players in the world cup than any other side. We've international standard players who get picked for their countries on a regular basis in almost every position. When the team was firing, I rememember practically everyone on this board was in agreement that the first 11 was as good as anything else out there, but we were just a few lacking in a bit of depth for the bench. So what's changed now? All of a sudden we've gone from having a first team full of quality, to a p*ss poor team that was mishandled by the previous manager because he bought poorly? Fact is, when players like Mascherano leave and you replace with players like Poulson, send a 17 milllion pounds worth midfielder out on loan, and then bemoan that we've not got enough quality in our middle or aren't creating goal chances is poor handling of squad resources. What was the point in buying a player like Mereiles and playing him out wide right in the midfield when you could keep the money and Aquilani and buy a secondary striker. Something that Rafa failed to do and something that it was obvious that we needed? That blows any of Rafa's mistakes in the transfer window clean out of the water for stupidity IMO.

most players in the world cup means nothing when the premiership is concerned mate. look at the list of who he brought. When we had money probs he was buying and selling like a complete nutjob. Yeah a 1st 11 is all well and good, but if the 2nd 11 cant beat Acrington Stanley whats the point?

Too many mistakes, too many bad games, to many bad dealings with the players,. he had to go

Accrington Stanley?
Who are they?

[dawson99]

exactly

[Thommo's perm]

Where you start from dictates where you end up.
If you believe Benitez was a great manager and simply a victim who was sh'it on by the owners you will have wanted him to continue. If you believe he was the victim of his own peculiar ways, his stubborness, arrogance and plot losing then you will have wanted him to go. He kept saying we were progressing, yet we were no nearer winning the league and our CL efforts were in reverse.
Now. The issue of his replacement is another matter.
It is connected but only relevant due to the state he has left us in and Roys failure at the moment to turn things round. Benitez could not stay. He had burned his bridges, played his hand and knew the game was up. Before he left he set himself up in a cushy number in Italy thank you very much. I wish him no ill will, but he is far from the victim in all of this.
Any manager coming in would have had a huge job on their hands, which was why candidates were thin on the ground. Great managers do not grow on trees and although I understand people being pi'ssed off that Roy got the job, I really cant think of anybody who was available of greater stature or standing who we could have got?
It was and is the right decision to get rid of Benitez. Time will tell if Roy was the right replacement