Liverpool FC Forum

[leeroy74]

the work he does and what he brings to the team is understated and often goes un-noticed. You take him out of the team and see what happens. He's a vital cog in the machine even if he isn't doing backheels, flicks and scoring worldies.

[kazza]

Liverpool have uncomfortable Roberto Firmino question to address, and must now find viable solution
Roberto Firmino's display vs Aston Villa was symptomatic of a player who's been off the boil for quite some time now.

ByJoel RabinowitzStaff Writer
05:00, 6 OCT 2020
LIVERPOOL FC NEWS
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The scale of Liverpool's annihilation by Aston Villa yesterday cannot be attributed to one or two individuals. True, Adrian kick-started the shambolic chain of events with an entirely avoidable error only three minutes in. True, both centre-backs were pretty dismal. True, the midfield was virtually non-existent, providing neither protection for the defence or a platform for the attack.

From start to finish, Liverpool's team shape was dishevelled and disjointed, leaving far too may gaps for Villa to stroll through and exploit. There wasn't anywhere near enough pressure on the ball, while the poorly-executed high line served as a recipe for disaster, time and time again. Collectively, it was the poorest performance ever produced under Jürgen Klopp, and the responsibility ought to be shared accordingly.

All that said, there's a conversation which needs to be had around Roberto Firmino at the moment. Let's get this straight first: Firmino is one of, if not the most influential player of Klopp's overall reign. The team has been built around him as the centre-piece to such an extent that he defines the system more so than any other player. He was virtually an ever-present in Liverpool's Champions League and Premier League glory, and almost single-handedly won the Club World Cup as well.

He's so often been the tone-setter from the front, helping facilitate Sadio Mané and Mohamed Salah being as devastatingly effective as they are. What he's lacked in direct goal output he's more than made up for with his all-round contribution in terms of winning the ball back high up the pitch and creating space and opportunities for others with his vision and intelligence of movement. It's why he's been a figurehead of Liverpool's rapid re-ascent to the summit of the game over the past five years.

Against Aston Villa, though, he was little more than an empty shirt, in truth – strangely incapable of completing even the most basic actions (albeit, his one moment of genuine quality created Salah's second goal on the night). His first touch was repeatedly heavy and resulted in him frequently losing possession in dangerous areas, which directly culminated in the attack from which Jack Grealish made it 6-1.

He made just 19 accurate passes – the lowest of any Liverpool player who started – with an overall passing accuracy of just 68%, and with the one very presentable opportunity he did have to score in the first-half, he shot straight at Emi Martinez with a total lack of conviction and precision. On several occasions when he could've picked out a teammate in space, he instead rolled the ball tamely straight into the path of a Villa defender.

Had it just been a one-off, it would be easier to just put this down as a really bad day at the office for Firmino as part of a dreadful team performance in which most of his teammates were also well below par. The thing is, these off-days where Firmino struggles to make any kind of positive impact have become increasingly regular over the past year or so.

That's not to say he hasn't still been excellent on numerous occasions – Newcastle (home), Leicester (away) and Southampton (home) all being prime examples last season – but there hasn't been a truly consistent 10-15 game run of brilliance from Firmino for quite some time now. In fact, he's scored only twice in his last 23 appearance for Liverpool in all competitions stretching back to late January.

A dry run in front of goal is one thing, but in games like yesterday when he's offering very little else on and off the ball, then it becomes a real issue. Indeed, it felt like Liverpool were essentially a man down in attack for much of the game against Villa, as Firmino was neither a threat in their box or remotely effective in deeper areas.

Identifying a root cause for why Firmino has been off the boil for so long is really difficult. Could it be that racking up 244 appearances of extremely high-intensity football for Liverpool in a physically very demanding role over the past five seasons with very little rest – while also regularly playing for Brazil – is now catching up with him? Is it just as simple as an ongoing lack of confidence, or is there perhaps something in the way opposition teams are setting up tactically to nullify him in a way which didn't use to happen so often? Does he need stronger competition to push him for his place in the side? Could it be the start of a gradual, natural regression, or is it just a prolonged rough patch before we see him back at his best?

In any case, his ability hasn't just evaporated, and he's still a phenomenal footballer when he's on it. Right now, though, he's just not on it enough. One option could be switching the system to 4-2-3-1 and dropping him back into the No.10 role to see if that re-ignites some sort of spark.

Perhaps he'd actually benefit from being taken out of the side for a few games, with Takumi Minamino given a chance through the middle. Or maybe he just needs to play himself back into form, and will be fine again once he scores a goal or two.

Either way, it's a question which Liverpool will need to find an answer to, sooner rather than later

[UvS xR4GEx]

It's been very clear that Bobby is massively off form at the moment.. But I don't think Minamino is good enough to fill that void if Bobby is dropped. I honestly felt we needed to buy a striker to put pressure on the forwards and make sure they didn't become complacent.

Id be tempted to play Jota and Salah out wide and play Mane in Bobby's place.. Let him have a rest and hopefully try to get his confidence back.

[redshade]

We would do well there only if Mane interchanges with Jota and Salah. Mane is best when he is going past players wide.

Firmino is off form but I'd still play him against Everton. If he flops against them then I'd consider benching him.

[kazza]

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/roberto-firmino-liverpool-position-tactics-22823186?1=&fbclid=IwAR1KTJugjAahB1vKCsVU0MzRBnKRMVdf3AIHAJR3uLnYu6vsaMBNm31w448

[UvS xR4GEx]

I'm worried about Bobby's form. We all saw that he struggled at the back end of last season.. But that form has carried through to this season aswell. He looks laboured, he doesn't look sharp, and his confidence looks shot to pieces.

I'm glad we brought in Jota too keep the front 3 on their toes.. And I think Bobby needs a few games on the bench to give him the kick up the a$$ he needs.

[red till i die!!]

Given the injury situation at the minute there is no way we can afford to drop such a big player.

Personally I think he should be utilised elsewhere as he isn't performing in the position hes in. He is not a striker and we need more return from that position. We also need a bit of creativity in Mid if Thiago isn't playing so I'd drop bobby back to provide that. He gets dragged back there so much anyway and he hasn't got the pace to recover the ground.

He still gives it his all during games and plays a part so a move back to AM might just bring the best out of him again.

[electrum]

Given the injury situation at the minute there is no way we can afford to drop such a big player.

Personally I think he should be utilised elsewhere as he isn't performing in the position hes in. He is not a striker and we need more return from that position. We also need a bit of creativity in Mid if Thiago isn't playing so I'd drop bobby back to provide that. He gets dragged back there so much anyway and he hasn't got the pace to recover the ground.

He still gives it his all during games and plays a part so a move back to AM might just bring the best out of him again.

Big players have never been undroppable at Liverpool when they consistently lack form and neither should they ever be.

We are solid enough in midfield and as you say he isn't the quickest so an agile opposition midfield would bypass him pretty routinely.

Jota has more than earned a starting berth IMO . Bench Bobby and give the lad a start to show us what he can do in the full 90 mins.
Bobby would have a better chance against a tiring defence at 75 mins or so.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

tbh I’d prefer to see Shaq in the AM role

[Reg]

Was discussing this with a mate yesterday who doesn't think Shaq is a 90 minute player. Thinks he responds to pressure and the thrill of having 20 minutes to make a difference. Gini was awful on Saturday, that's more of a worry for me than Bobby. Bobby playing 60 minutes then Jota replacing him is a partnership made in heaven. Not happy with Jones, Shaq really showed him how to do it...  I came away very happy from that game (apart from the WH goal), because Phillips showed we do have depth in CB's at the club and because of the impact Shaq and Jota made coming on. Fantastic, we'll ride out the next 3 months lads don't worry, whereas ManUseless must be shite-ing themselves.

[Penguins]

I think it is time  for Firmino to sit on the bench a few games. And if he fails to to something when he comes back it's time to think about shipping him in the summer.
He's almost 30 and if he doesn't get going he should be sent packing.

[Reg]

He stepped up half a pace when he came on, the message has got through!

[redshade]

I'm glad there is competition now, keeps Bobby and co out of their comfort zone.

[devaney]

I think it is time  for Firmino to sit on the bench a few games. And if he fails to to something when he comes back it's time to think about shipping him in the summer.
He's almost 30 and if he doesn't get going he should be sent packing.

Great way to talk about a player who has contributed massively towards us winning the CL and the league for the first time in 30 feckin years. Well done !!

[Penguins]

Is that how it is going to be,is it?
Rewarding players for their past when they fall off a cliff?
That ends in failure and a club that is moving backwards....