Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

I don't think Dawson is trying to undermine the manager, he does say that he is a "massive Rafa fan". I think its reasonable to say that if you think he won't win the league it would better to get shut. I think he makes too many mistakes, and if this continues we are going to finish up empty handed yet again.

[Sir Roger]

I don't think Dawson is trying to undermine the manager, he does say that he is a "massive Rafa fan". I think its reasonable to say that if you think he won't win the league it would better to get shut. I think he makes too many mistakes, and if this continues we are going to finish up empty handed yet again.

Hey dawson
Got your mate fighting your battles for you then...?

[account deleted by request]

I'm fighting no ones battles. I just gave my opinion...... you got a problem with that ?

[dawson99]

I don't think Dawson is trying to undermine the manager, he does say that he is a "massive Rafa fan". I think its reasonable to say that if you think he won't win the league it would better to get shut. I think he makes too many mistakes, and if this continues we are going to finish up empty handed yet again.

Hey dawson
Got your mate fighting your battles for you then...?

having mates is a novel idea for you eh?
I'm not undermining our manager, i don't have the experience for that. im just stating that i think his stubbornness is costing us games.. and he is breaking winning formulas by over analysing... but at least im giving reasnos, not just being a d!ck

[maypaxvobiscum]

I'm fighting no ones battles. I just gave my opinion...... you got a problem with that ?

GYBS must've taken over his account mate 

[Sir Roger]

I don't think Dawson is trying to undermine the manager, he does say that he is a "massive Rafa fan". I think its reasonable to say that if you think he won't win the league it would better to get shut. I think he makes too many mistakes, and if this continues we are going to finish up empty handed yet again.

Hey dawson
Got your mate fighting your battles for you then...?

having mates is a novel idea for you eh?
I'm not undermining our manager, i don't have the experience for that. im just stating that i think his stubbornness is costing us games.. and he is breaking winning formulas by over analysing... but at least im giving reasnos, not just being a d!ck

Ganging up on me eh?
Two against one eh?
No s@int I havent got a problem with that
In fact I think its nice when mates stick up for each other. Thats what friends are for as they say.
And dawson chill out will you
Im taking the at you being so aggressive.

There really isnt any need to try and insult me. I actually agree with you about Rafa.



Kuyt is still shi'te though

[devaney]

Sir Roger - you are a silly boy! Grow up!

[devaney]

And what happens when we win the title or come within one point and only loose it on the final day of the season - will that all be down to the players and nothing to do with rafa and we did that well in spite of rafa

That's how fickle some people are here mate. If that happened (and it very nearly did) those same people would be singing Rafas praises.

It's not being fickle. It's the difference between winning the title and not winning anything for three years. He's paid a fortune and just sometimes we have a right to criticise! I like Rafa but like all of us he isn't perfect!

[kunilson]

This x10 is how it will be if we end up in another trophyless season.

6 points off the leaders with 30 games to go isnt the worst position in the world, forget the amount of losses. we can still do it.

is rafa the man for the job? he's proved he can make it to the top of the table, and can also beat the big teams when it matters. we need to find out if we can hold on to that top spot if and when we get to it.

Man U's run of 14 wins in a row last season is exactly the sort of thing what we need right now.

[dawson99]

This x10 is how it will be if we end up in another trophyless season.

6 points off the leaders with 30 games to go isnt the worst position in the world, forget the amount of losses. we can still do it.

is rafa the man for the job? he's proved he can make it to the top of the table, and can also beat the big teams when it matters. we need to find out if we can hold on to that top spot if and when we get to it.

Man U's run of 14 wins in a row last season is exactly the sort of thing what we need right now.

...but leaving out benny and pushing Stevie too far forward was just insanely bizarre. unless he curbs out the weirdness we're in trouble. if he does get it sortde then we are in with a great shout

[crazyhorse]

Rafa is still the best manager to take us forward. He has made mistakes (not many) with team selection and tactics over the past few seasons, and I feel (not know as some here apparantly do) that this may be down to arrogance born from his own self confidence.

The biggest problem is the poor state the club is actually in off the field. There is no money in the pot to improve the squad and I have to say that on balance we have gone backwards since last season. If and only if Auquilani proves to be the player we hope he is can we say we have stood still, or marginally improved.

We are in a global recession which has contributed, also some poor signings. But the financial situation means plain and simply that it would be folly to even think of replacing the manager at this point. Not only because i still have absolute faith in Rafa, but there are no resources for the club to back any new manager that comes in. I also think that the club would have problems attracting a similar calibre manager due to the off the field problems and American nob jockies running us into the ground.

We have to accept that maybe that final hurdle in winning the premier league could be beyond us until we have the means to really sign the players that will make that last 5% difference between us and Chelski and Manure. This may be a little longer, but is not the end of the world. We all want this league more than anything but it will be all the sweeter when it does come, it may be this year, it may not; but the current stupidity being spouted by the rather less informed here helps no one at all.

When we lose a game, it is not going to help anyone by coming on here and slagging individual players off, saying they are not good enough, or do not care. The fact is we are stuck with this squad and it will not be changed.

In Rafa I do trust to get it right and get us going. What other choice is there?

[Sir Roger]

Rafa is still the best manager to take us forward. He has made mistakes (not many) with team selection and tactics over the past few seasons, and I feel (not know as some here apparantly do) that this may be down to arrogance born from his own self confidence.

The biggest problem is the poor state the club is actually in off the field. There is no money in the pot to improve the squad and I have to say that on balance we have gone backwards since last season. If and only if Auquilani proves to be the player we hope he is can we say we have stood still, or marginally improved.

We are in a global recession which has contributed, also some poor signings. But the financial situation means plain and simply that it would be folly to even think of replacing the manager at this point. Not only because i still have absolute faith in Rafa, but there are no resources for the club to back any new manager that comes in. I also think that the club would have problems attracting a similar calibre manager due to the off the field problems and American nob jockies running us into the ground.

We have to accept that maybe that final hurdle in winning the premier league could be beyond us until we have the means to really sign the players that will make that last 5% difference between us and Chelski and Manure. This may be a little longer, but is not the end of the world. We all want this league more than anything but it will be all the sweeter when it does come, it may be this year, it may not; but the current stupidity being spouted by the rather less informed here helps no one at all.

When we lose a game, it is not going to help anyone by coming on here and slagging individual players off, saying they are not good enough, or do not care. The fact is we are stuck with this squad and it will not be changed.

In Rafa I do trust to get it right and get us going. What other choice is there?

The more this goes on the more I believe the money is a red herring
Rafa has had more than enough money to buy a squad capable of winning the league. All of the squad except for Gerrard and Carragher have been bought by him (correct me if Im wrong). The backroom staff is his and hes even got a say in the acadamy. In other words he is in control of all the players in the club. If the players arent good enough the buck has to stop with the gaffer. Has he got the ability to make it work? Will his arrogance be the undoing of him? By the end of this season we will know...

[Penguins]

Rafa is still the best manager to take us forward. He has made mistakes (not many) with team selection and tactics over the past few seasons, and I feel (not know as some here apparantly do) that this may be down to arrogance born from his own self confidence.

The biggest problem is the poor state the club is actually in off the field. There is no money in the pot to improve the squad and I have to say that on balance we have gone backwards since last season. If and only if Auquilani proves to be the player we hope he is can we say we have stood still, or marginally improved.

We are in a global recession which has contributed, also some poor signings. But the financial situation means plain and simply that it would be folly to even think of replacing the manager at this point. Not only because i still have absolute faith in Rafa, but there are no resources for the club to back any new manager that comes in. I also think that the club would have problems attracting a similar calibre manager due to the off the field problems and American nob jockies running us into the ground.

We have to accept that maybe that final hurdle in winning the premier league could be beyond us until we have the means to really sign the players that will make that last 5% difference between us and Chelski and Manure. This may be a little longer, but is not the end of the world. We all want this league more than anything but it will be all the sweeter when it does come, it may be this year, it may not; but the current stupidity being spouted by the rather less informed here helps no one at all.

When we lose a game, it is not going to help anyone by coming on here and slagging individual players off, saying they are not good enough, or do not care. The fact is we are stuck with this squad and it will not be changed.

In Rafa I do trust to get it right and get us going. What other choice is there?

Totally agree.


And I will steadfastly disagree with those who say Rafa has been able to spend so bloody much. Just not true and the concept of "net spend" is something that will obviously never get through the thick skull of some supporters.

Like mentioned Rafa has spent around 85 million these past 18 months and sold players for around 85 million. I know it can be hard for some to understand but that doesn't mean Rafa has got 85 million into his pocket from the owners...

The day we sack rafa we will just fall a further behind, as I firmly believe he does less mistakes than other managers.
And you really believe a new manager will get financial backing under the current circumstances at the club?
Dream on!

All just comes down to the demand on Rafa to perform miracles. Some spounting of that Mourinho is a great manager is just hilarous.
A manager that got hundreds of millions in a couple of years and managed to win the league.
Does that make him a better manager than Rafa?
**** NO!

[bigmick]

I'm not going to go into the Mourinho comparison here, but I would urge you to go and read the first four pages of the thread about him in Premiership General Discussion. Leaving Rafa out of it for a second, if you can truly read that and come to the conclusion that Mourinho's record is anything other than absolutely astounding I'd be staggered (as I have you down as not being an idiot) . I've seen you refer to him in comparison a few times, once you're read that my guess is that you won't go there any more.

Anyway onto Rafa and his "spend". Once again it's one of your favourite subjects, but is it not right that since Rafa has been the manager we have spent more money both net and gross than Manchester United? Presumeably you don't dispute that we have spent more money both net and gross than Arsenal, and while I don't profess to either know or care about the comparison between us and Man City and Tottenham, I guess it's close but that we might come out in front again. I also assume we've spent a bit less than Chelsea.

This is six years into his tenure though, and we haven't won a trophy for three seasons plus this one. He is in control of transfers, the team, the academy and everything else and I must say froma  personal point of view it would make it a bit more interesting if we could think of better arguments than the money one.

Leave Mourinho out of it though mate. In terms of record, there is absolutely no comparison.

[account deleted by request]

Rafa Benítez must keep Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher on his side at Liverpool

Ever since Rafael Benítez made his unwise criticism of “senior players’’ in the wake of the Aug 24 defeat to Aston Villa, resentment has lingered in certain quarters towards the Liverpool manager.

By Henry Winter
Published: 7:30AM BST 06 Oct 2009

Local heroes: Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard show their displeasure during the 3-1 home defeat to Aston Villa
Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher have both spoken to Benítez about his controversial comments.

It needs stressing that no rift exists at Anfield, but the complicated Benítez must re-engage with his team’s heartbeat, the home-grown pair of Huyton’s Gerrard and Bootle’s Carragher, if Liverpool are to prevent another season disappearing down the boulevard of broken dreams.

Liverpool players to blame for defeat. Passionate for the team to succeed, these two highly committed players are intelligent individuals, with Carragher a particularly deep thinker about the game. Gerrard is away with England but Carragher will be at Melwood so Benítez must start there, discussing with his centre-half how Liverpool can improve and how Benítez himself can become a better manager.

When Gerrard returns from the vibrant England dressing room after next week’s conclusion of a triumphant World Cup qualifying campaign, Benítez must also meet his captain. Together, Liverpool have a chance.

For those gathered in the Anfield media room 20 minutes after that 3-1 defeat to Villa, Benitez’s unflattering verdict on the contributions of Gerrard and Carragher sounded disrespectful to characters who have held Liverpool together from Istanbul to Barcelona.

After questioning the marking that allowed Curtis Davies to score Villa’s second (and Carragher was undoubtedly slightly culpable), Benítez hardly backed Gerrard in the build-up to Villa’s third. “Gerrard gave the penalty away and it was a clear penalty.’’ Ouch.

Benítez’s conclusion that “it is up to the senior players to take the responsibility’’ triggered the inevitable negative headlines.

Well-paid professionals should not retreat into bruised shells just because a manager highlights mistakes, but Benítez’s decision to excoriate stalwarts in public was surprising. It’s not the Liverpool way. At a time when players like Lucas, a Benítez favourite, were patently struggling, the disparaging of two Kop idols was bound to be contentious.

These remarks felt far more significant than Benítez’s “and that’s a fact’’ outburst at Sir Alex Ferguson last season. However much that ill-timed rant raised eyebrows in the Anfield dressing room, it did not raise questions internally like the questioning of “senior players’’.

For those whose natural inclination it is to defend Gerrard and Carragher, it needs recording that legitimate tactical reasons have arisen this season as to why they are not their usual accomplished selves.

Gerrard does not enjoy the swift, precise service of Xabi Alonso, who eventually departed to Real Madrid after falling out with Benítez. Carragher must organise defensive fortifications inevitably weakened by Alonso’s exit and Glen Johnson’s frequent disappearances upfield.

Benítez now calls on his players “to keep improving’’ following Sunday’s damaging defeat at Chelsea. It is worth the coach himself considering how he can “keep improving’’ his relations with the dressing room.

Such a driven manager, who made himself one of the most respected tacticians in Europe through constant research and self-improvement, now needs to work on his man-management skills.

Unlike Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsène Wenger, Mark Hughes, Martin O’Neill, Harry Redknapp, Carlo Ancelotti and David Moyes, Benítez is an incredibly difficult person to warm to. Too detached, too cold. Everyone has heard the stories of Gerrard joking that he will retire in shock when he gets a “well done’’ off Benítez.

Everyone knows the tale of the Spanish perfectionist pulling merry players to one side at Liverpool’s 2005 Champions League-winning party to debate dodgy first-half marking against Kaka and Hernán Crespo.

Emerging more recently has been Fernando Torres’s account of joyfully entering the dressing room after the birth of his first child to be greeted with presents and plaudits from team-mates. Benítez’s reaction? A comment about the importance of the near-post run.

Does it matter that this footballing obsessive seems to show no interest in his players as human beings? After all, this is the manager who stayed on for the 2005 Club World Championship in Tokyo despite learning that his father had passed away back in Spain. In Benítez’s eyes, he was merely being professional, being devoted to his team’s pursuit of trophies.

Those who know Benítez speak of a personable soul. Anyone who has seen his wife celebrating victories at Anfield, even singing 'You’ll Never Walk Alone’ before kick-off, will appreciate that there must be some hinterland to Benítez’s character.

If Liverpool are to get a grip of their season, Benítez must loosen up.
___LINK