redtrader74 wrote:bigmick wrote:s@int wrote:So by your recconing we should wait till the players are tired before resting them. That may come after 30-40 games. So then you bring in a player who hasn't played all season just as you are getting to the sharp end of the season. No match fitness, no sharpness, no understanding between players.
Don't get me wrong I dont believe in the level of rotation that Rafa is using at the moment, I do believe rotation is necessary though.
I think everyone believes "rotation", resting a player, dropping a player now and then is necessary though Saint don't they? Just like no team will ever win the Premier League while employing mass rotation, no team has ever or will ever win it by playing the same eleven in every game.
Once again this is a myth (not put about by you I hasten to add) which says that if you think that Rafa changes the team too much, the alternative is you never change it at all. If you believe that changing the team five, six and seven players per game is too much, the alternative is never to change it at all.
No it doesn't wash. You rest players as and when they need it, no more or less than that. If somebody loses his form or his focus, you drop him. I suspect that would add up to an average of between none and two changes per game. Call it rotation if you like, resting, taking a breather, being sensible, but that's what I believe in. If anyone can't grasp the concept they should just looka t what Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd do. Lets have a go at copying them.
On the second point about bringing a bloke ina fter 30-40 games I'm not really advocating that either. There's plenty of opportunities as a sub for players to get a feel for things for a start, and there is no reason why they can't get a game when somebody is rested or when we play in the Carling Cup. Even if they do come in a bit cold, as long as the rest of the team know where they're at the newbie will slot in just fine. It's when you've got half the team trying to slot in at the same time you get a problem.
There are in fact many who claim to be riding on your bus who want the best 11 on the pitch each game, unless injured or out of form, there are those who have said that they don't agree with rotation for rest at all. I am sure it is clear to you there are very few on here advocating 6-7+ changes per game, but that doesn't stop the conversly perverse notion that if you stand up for the manager then you automatically agree with everything he does.
The separating of camps has come about because some posters are only banging the rotation drum as a reason for our dip on form, (not you Mick...although on occasion you are getting close!), others are willing to examine options outside of that, but as soon as you do you are labelled rose tinted, happy clappy etc.
Chelsea, Manu rotated almost the same as us last year, FACT, maybe at different times, for different reasons, but the figures were almost identical. As Saints figures show, our main players played on average 50 games last year, not really underused. The current season has seen at least in the league, the best available play, apart from Torres starting against Birmingham and Portsmouth where he was carrying a knock. Maybe Rafa thought i'll put him on the bench, and not risk starting him, but if we are in trouble i can take a gamble and get him on?
I'd say there is a general agreement (bar those few who have an agenda against the manager and are constant moaners or those who will never find fault), on here that some rotation takes place and that it is essential if we are to compete in all competitions, the degree of it is different for most. At the same time it really has been too early to judge. The dip in form..... maybe it was rotation, or that the players did not do themsleves justice, or poor tactics, or that we are not as good as we think, or a bit of everything, but to pin most of the blame on one thing without evidence is folly.
you summed it up very nicely redtrader... my opinion is almost the same as yours...
to mick: appreciate your excellent post of replying to my one-setence post... I almost feel embarrassed
...my opinion is that so far I don't have much problems in rafa's team selection for the league so far this season... only exception is not choosing torres against Porto... that was a mistake i think... I will explain my point below.
if you look at his team selections (I don't have hard stats like saint but roughly from memory) he plays his strongest players all the time:
At the defence, Carragher and Agger plays all the time when fit. So does Finnan. at the RB Arbeloa is playing most of the time (and most ppl dont' have a problem with him so far i think)
In the middle, Gerrard plays all the time. Alonso plays most of the time when fit. Sissoko and Mascherano plays depending on the type of game rafa expects (Not many people will have problem with Mascherano playing but some might have with sissoko... but this is not really a complaint area is it?)
On the wings... Pennant plays most of the time on the right and often subsituted around 3/4 of the game by either Benyaoun or Babel (this subsitution I don't really agree because most of the time he was playing well and should have been left on the field). The left side is either Riise, Benyaoun or Babel and this is where Rafa rotates quite often. It shows that the left wing is still a problem area.
Now the strikers department is where Rafa likes to rotate most often and this is where the most controversy lies. Even then Torres played almost all the games except for 2, porto and birmingham. Porto is a mistake and Birmingham we should have won without him. The second striker is more problematic but Dirk Kuyt still starts 5 out of 8 games. And this is where even we can't agree who we want to play... so that means criticism will come no matter who Rafa plays.
So in short... Rafa rotates the second striker and left wing positions the most and this is due to his believe that he needs different kinds of players for different games in those positions and maybe this is also because the players available there are not the strongest. Is this too much? I don't know. If you ask me I believe it's sensible.
Now he rotates much more for Carling cup (expected) and CL matches (not so expected) this season. And the teams he fields in the CL matches are more fustrating to me than those he fields for the league... but this is another discussion I believe. But this fact seems to have been some how contorted and made to look as if rafa's rotating all the time.
So the "anti-rotationalist" (quotation denotes not the exact meaning) need to say specifically where they don't agree... is it the second striker and left wing roles that rafa rotates often in the league? or is it the more drastic rotation when we play CL games this season? Just saying generally along the lines of "rotation doesn't work" or "it's all because of rotation" is getting abit tiresome IMO.
-clown like Lando now can we 
