Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

You are probably right Mick, I am no doubt a little hard on Rafa when it comes to transfers..... especially after signing Torres Masch and Riera. Maybe I will have to think of something else I didn't like instead 

[andy_g]

maybe he's just quit the rotation, the styling and all that other rubbish until he gets the new contract he wants...

[account deleted by request]

maybe he's just quit the rotation, the styling and all that other rubbish until he gets the new contract he wants...

No need to search for a new concern.... Andy's found one for me 

[GYBS]

ok guess not going to answer . Just wondering as if you look at the post rafa must be an awful manager and does that mean we havent won the title because of rafa or because our players havent been good enough ? Also looking at all that how has rafa managed to do so well with us ?

[Bad Bob]

If I had to pick 10 things I didn't like about Rafa's management before this season.

1/ Too defensive in outlook

2/ too many poor or average buys

3/ strange formations that never seemed to work

4/Rotation .... too much and too many

5/Strange subs .... seemed more interested in not losing a game than actually winning it.

6/Man management..... rarely praised players especially Gerrard and didn't seem capable of raising a teams spirits after a poor result. Blips became bliiiiips and players that lost form hardly ever seemed to recover it. We often looked like a team that lacked heart for the fight in the league.

7/Seemed to be using the press to further HIS own agenda rather than what was best for Liverpool fc.

8/seemed to fall out with too many people, including people who had long and distinguished service with the club.

9/Styling .....seemed at times more interested in showing how clever he was rather than picking a team that would win the game.

10/seemed to be taking one step back for every two steps forward..... progress too slow and littered with unnecessary errors.

This season so far......I still think number 2 and number 8 need work but so far he seems to have addressed my other concerns, with number 6 still open to question.

Hopefully this won't be seen as a knocking post but I don't really give that much of a chance on here.

Personally I would take reducing 10 concerns down to 2 possibly 3 as major progress........so far. Whether any of the others come back to bite us in the a$$ only time will tell

Well, it does read a little like a knocking post, mate, only because you seemed to be grasping a bit at the end there to get to 10!   After all, #10's hardly a point on its own but, rather, the culmination of your other points.  Leaving that aside, though--the only one of your points I would categorically disagree with is #9.  IMHO, Rafa's 'styling' was never an ego exercise or an attempt to look clever.  It was his prevailing footballing philosophy and I think he honestly believed it was for the good of the team.  I've got no trouble questioning the philosophy (as you've already done in #4, anyway ) but I would take exception to questioning his motivation.  So, there you have it...8 solid points raised that are fodder for interesting discussion and 2 tacked on at the end that seem a little less substantial.

[kazza]

Im sick hearing people say its one thing or the other that is the reason that we are starting to look like a serious team that can contend!
Its way too simplistic to say we are looking better because Rafa is rotating less.Im sure the more settled starting eleven is a factor in our success but there are many other reasons too.
The teams collective mentality seems to be in a place it has never been under Rafa.Just look at the times we have went behind and refused to be defeated already this season.Whether or not we should be behind in these games in the first place has nothing to do with it.Its hard to come from 1 behind and win and a hell of a lot harder to come from 2 behind and win in this League!It takes a hell of a lot of effort and belief to do it,its great to see we are capable although its hard on the nerves to watch!
Another factor is the born again Xabi Alonso,he's been fantastic this season.Anyone that still argues that he was at his best in the last two years needs their head looked at.I said in the summer that I felt he took his place for granted and was not giving 100%.I still believe that and TBH Im glad that Rafa tried to sell him because as a result we have the old Xabi back,at his best hes a class act and a massive influence on the team!
Thank fu'ck we never signed Barry now though,the whole long drawn affair has given Alonso a new lease of life and he looks like a player that is fighting for his right in the team,every game!Keep it up Xabi.
Albert Reira is another part of it too IMO.He's in a different league altogether compaired to anything we have had on the left in a very long time.He's made a great impact and theres a lot more to come from him.Its hard to believe the moans and groans on here in the summer.Its obvious now that most were judging him on what they heard,or just going with the general consensus that he "is not good enough for LFC".I think he's proved already he has what it takes.Maybe people will wait next time before they make their minds up.Its blatantly obvious that 80% on here knew fu'ck all about him but judged him prematurely for the simple reason that he was not a household name!

Im sure there are a lot of other reasons too,its not one or two factors.Its a lot of different things all coming together.
Overall I get the feeling that for the first time in years the players and manager believe they can win it.Gerrard and Carra had said in previous years that we were a couple of players short.I think now they feel that they have the right players around them and believe they can be up there at the end,they believe they can do it and its spreading through the squad!I think the difference is that in other seasons the mentality was"we may be in with a chance" but deep down they knew we were'nt really good enough!Now it looks like the truely think they can challenge!
Of course the manager and players will say its too early,one game at a time,theres a long way to go and all the rest.More to take the pressure off themselves than anything else.I reckon in their hearts they feel this can be our year!No one ever won the League without believing they could do it.

Bang on

[lakes10]

lets look at the truh here,

Our progression under rafa in the CL. outstanding.
Our progression under rafa in the Prem, Slow, we should be where we are now two years ago, and saying that i dont think we have a beter team than we did last year, but this its all about the Prem and thats why we are doing well, last year he would have never taken off SG at 1-1 in the CL.

Clueless.

oh dear, did the truth hurt you lol

[GYBS]

Im sick hearing people say its one thing or the other that is the reason that we are starting to look like a serious team that can contend!
Its way too simplistic to say we are looking better because Rafa is rotating less.Im sure the more settled starting eleven is a factor in our success but there are many other reasons too.
The teams collective mentality seems to be in a place it has never been under Rafa.Just look at the times we have went behind and refused to be defeated already this season.Whether or not we should be behind in these games in the first place has nothing to do with it.Its hard to come from 1 behind and win and a hell of a lot harder to come from 2 behind and win in this League!It takes a hell of a lot of effort and belief to do it,its great to see we are capable although its hard on the nerves to watch!
Another factor is the born again Xabi Alonso,he's been fantastic this season.Anyone that still argues that he was at his best in the last two years needs their head looked at.I said in the summer that I felt he took his place for granted and was not giving 100%.I still believe that and TBH Im glad that Rafa tried to sell him because as a result we have the old Xabi back,at his best hes a class act and a massive influence on the team!
Thank fu'ck we never signed Barry now though,the whole long drawn affair has given Alonso a new lease of life and he looks like a player that is fighting for his right in the team,every game!Keep it up Xabi.
Albert Reira is another part of it too IMO.He's in a different league altogether compaired to anything we have had on the left in a very long time.He's made a great impact and theres a lot more to come from him.Its hard to believe the moans and groans on here in the summer.Its obvious now that most were judging him on what they heard,or just going with the general consensus that he "is not good enough for LFC".I think he's proved already he has what it takes.Maybe people will wait next time before they make their minds up.Its blatantly obvious that 80% on here knew fu'ck all about him but judged him prematurely for the simple reason that he was not a household name!

Im sure there are a lot of other reasons too,its not one or two factors.Its a lot of different things all coming together.
Overall I get the feeling that for the first time in years the players and manager believe they can win it.Gerrard and Carra had said in previous years that we were a couple of players short.I think now they feel that they have the right players around them and believe they can be up there at the end,they believe they can do it and its spreading through the squad!I think the difference is that in other seasons the mentality was"we may be in with a chance" but deep down they knew we were'nt really good enough!Now it looks like the truely think they can challenge!
Of course the manager and players will say its too early,one game at a time,theres a long way to go and all the rest.More to take the pressure off themselves than anything else.I reckon in their hearts they feel this can be our year!No one ever won the League without believing they could do it.

Bang on

100% agree it is a top post

[Leonmc0708]

9/Styling .....seemed at times more interested in showing how clever he was rather than picking a team that would win the game.

Not having a pop at you personally, but:

Do you really think that Rafael Benitez makes decisions on the team he puts out rather than based on winning the game or the opposition SIMPLY to prove HE IS CLEVER ?

Get a grip.

[account deleted by request]

9/Styling .....seemed at times more interested in showing how clever he was rather than picking a team that would win the game.

Not having a pop at you personally, but:

Do you really think that Rafael Benitez makes decisions on the team he puts out rather than based on winning the game or the opposition SIMPLY to prove HE IS CLEVER ?

Get a grip.

Maybe you have a better explanation for playing Crouch on the left wing as we lost our first game of last season?

Reading v Liverpool   3-1

25  Jose Reina 
17  Álvaro Arbeloa 
46  Jack Hobbs 
6  John Arne Riise 
23  Jamie Carragher 
8  Steven Gerrard 
20  Javier Mascherano 
22  Mohamed Sissoko 
9  Fernando Torres 
10  Andriy Voronin 
15  Peter Crouch 

Subs
30  Charles Itandje

4  Sami Hyypia

7  Harry Kewell

19  Ryan Babel

18  Dirk Kuyt

Most of the time you can usually come up with "some reason" for selecting a certain team or formation, this one honestly baffled me. Especially as there were two left wingers on the bench who had hardly played too much football.

How many times has he picked an unusual team/formation and we have struggled and as soon as we have gone to a more familiar formation played much better?

I have no doubt he had good tactical reasons but I do think at times he overthinks and complicates things to much. Maybe if he just picked his best team more often, he could be a successful manager like me?

Just like with the Alonso argument, people know when a player is playing well, similarly with selecting the team. How many times over the past few years have we been saying WTF when the team has been anounced? How many this season ? I would suggest very few have moaned this season, while most have been at the very least "surprised" by some of his teams and formations in the past.

[GYBS]

Didnt they play 4-3-3  that day with Torres left of crouch and Voronin right of him ?

[account deleted by request]

Didnt they play 4-3-3  that day with Torres left of crouch and Voronin right of him ?

No mate, Crouch played on the left with Torres through the middle

[GYBS]

oh right thought it was the other way around . or with voronin on the left but can never ever remember crouch playing wide.

[account deleted by request]

oh right thought it was the other way around . or with voronin on the left but can never ever remember crouch playing wide.

Just check back on the match thread if you can't find the vid.

[GYBS]

its ok i believe you .