Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

Easy enough principle, below is a list of players and you have to match them up to your view :-

Options :

Star (Player)
1st Team
OK
Below Par
Offload

Players :

Reina
Itandje

Agger
Carragher
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Finnan
Riise
Aurelio

Gerrard
Alonso
Lucas
Mascherano
Sissoko
Kewell
Leto
Pennant
Babel
Benayoun

Torres
Kuyt
Voronin
Crouch

You can count how many in each at the end and maybe surprise yourself! Best to stick to those above rather than add any players based on whims or personal preference. It should also highlight where our weaknesses are, I'm guessing strikers is going to be the main worry and also the fact that there are often only two good options in a role where you play both at any one time

[account deleted by request]

Star player

Reina
Gerrard
Alonso
Mascherano
Torres

1st Team

Agger
Carragher
Finnan
Kewell (If ever fit! )

OK (presume you mean OK SQUAD PLAYERS)
Riise
Aurelio
Lucas
Sissoko
Arbeloa
Babel

Below Par Offload (some of these players haven't had a proper chance yet, but gone off what I have seen)In my opinion they are not of the standard required to be Liverpool players, that doesn't mean they are cr@p.

Itandje
Hyypia
Leto
Pennant
Benayoun
Kuyt
Voronin
Crouch

[taff]

Easy enough principle, below is a list of players and you have to match them up to your view :-

Options :

Star (Player)
1st Team
OK
Below Par
Offload

Players :

Reina Star
Itandje Ok

Agger Star
Carragher Star
Hyypia Ok
Arbeloa 1st team
Finnan ok
Riise ok
Aurelio 1st team

Gerrard star
Alonso star
Lucas 1st team
Mascherano 1st team
Sissoko ok
Kewell should be a star
Leto ok
Pennant ok
Babel will be star
Benayoun ok

Torres star
Kuyt 1st team
Voronin ok
Crouch ok

You can count how many in each at the end and maybe surprise yourself! Best to stick to those above rather than add any players based on whims or personal preference. It should also highlight where our weaknesses are, I'm guessing strikers is going to be the main worry and also the fact that there are often only two good options in a role where you play both at any one time

Would like to see us splashing out on an amazing creative midfielder or a striker.

I cant believe Im saying this but would happily swap crouch with Owen plus cash probably

[bigxchris]

Options :

Star (Player)
1st Team
OK
Below Par
Offload

Players :

Reina        Star
Itandje      OK (not really seen enough to judge)

Agger        Star
Carragher   Star
Hyypia       OK (Star in previous seasons but has lost it slightly)
Arbeloa      1st Team (with the potential to be Star)
Finnan       Star
Riise          1st Team (no where near as good as he has been in previous seasons)
Aurelio      1st Team ( I want to see him back in the same form he was in prior to his injury)

Gerrard      Star
Alonso       Star
Lucas        1st Team (another Season or Two and he could be a star)
Mascherano   Star
Sissoko      1st Team
Kewell       OK (so much potential ruined by injury, still our best left winger)
Leto         OK
Pennant    1st Team
Babel        1st Team (Star if he gets a run up front)
Benayoun  1st Team

Torres      1st Team
Kuyt        OK (downgraded after turning into a winger in most of our matches)
Voronin     Ok
Crouch      Ok/1st Team

[Elchris]

Options :

Star (Player)
Reina
Agger
Gerrard
Alonso
Torres
Carragher
Mascherano

OK :
Itandje
Arbeloa
Finnan
Riise
Aurelio
Babel
Benayoun
Lucas
Leto
Voronin


Offload :
Hyypia
Sissoko
Kewell
Pennant
Kuyt
Crouch

Bring In :
One world Class Winger
One Reliabe Center Back
Possibly a decent another striker

[RUSHIE#9]

Players :

Reina               STAR
Itandje             BELOW PAR (Not seen enough of him yet).

Agger               STAR
Carragher          STAR
Hyypia              OFFLOAD (Past his best days).
Arbeloa             1ST TEAM
Finnan              1ST TEAM (Been a bit inconsistent of late).
Riise                 1ST TEAM
Aurelio              1ST TEAM

Gerrard              STAR
Alonso               STAR
Lucas                1ST TEAM(Potential to be STAR of the future).
Mascherano        STAR
Sissoko              OFFLOAD
Kewell                OFFLOAD
Leto                  OK (Needs a bit more time to mature possibly).
Pennant             OFFLOAD
Babel                 1ST TEAM
Benayoun           1ST TEAM

Torres               STAR
Kuyt                 OFFLAOD (Couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo).
Voronin             OFFLOAD (Just not LFC material).
Crouch              OK


There aren't that many that need offloading but Rafa needs to replace them with a couple more players of STAR material IMO. He also needs to start using them in their better positions and in a regular starting line up.

Looking at my choices you can see that the main problem areas are again up front and in midfield, certainly on the creative side of things. The defensive end of the pitch ain't too bad we just need better quality depth there as Sami is getting past it now, that isn't based on the two unlucky OG's he's scored lately.

[Bad Bob]

I didn't bother with "star" players because to me, that's just as much to do with form as it is to do with what a player has in his locker.  On ability, Gerrard's a star player but has he been playing like a star player much this season?  It's a bit of a weird label for me and I don't think it's needed for what the thread is trying to do, so I've omitted it.  Likewise, "below par" is about form rather than ability and so I've not included that either.  My list then, is about which players are good enough to start every game, which players are squad players (selected according to form) and which players probably need to go, based on what they are capable of rather on their current form.

Reina - 1st team
Itandje - Squad (not seen enough so I gave him the benefit of the doubt)

Agger - 1st team
Carragher - 1st team
Hyypia - Squad
Arbeloa - Squad
Finnan - Squad (borderline call here for me but is starting to show signs of decline and should probably be replaced sooner rather than later to avoid what we are seeing with Sami)
Riise - Squad
Aurelio - Squad

Gerrard - 1st Team
Alonso - 1st Team
Lucas - Squad
Mascherano - 1st Team
Sissoko - Squad
Kewell - 1st Team
Leto - Offload
Pennant - Squad
Babel - Squad
Benayoun - Squad

Torres - 1st Team
Kuyt - Squad
Voronin - Squad (just)
Crouch - Squad

The true first-teamers are players that, despite having a bad game now and then, lift the level of the team every time they take the pitch and set the tone for their teammates.

Conversely, squad players are good enough to get a run of games in the first team and contribute but that's if they are playing near their peak and are working with players around them who are also near the top of their game.

All top teams are made up of both core first-teamers and a periphery of squad players who move in and out of the side as form and fitness dictate (not necessarily at the rotation rate that Rafa employs, I hasten to add).  As has been said many times, you need both in your team: 11 superstars will not necessarily make for a good team.

But, a glance at my list will indicate that I think we have an awful lot of squad players at the moment.  Some, like Lucas and Babel, are prospects that could become proper first-teamers over time.  Others, like Benayoun, Aurelio, Pennant and Arbeloa, are handy lads to have on hand because of their versatility and skills.  Still others, like Hyypia and Finnan, are veteran campaigners in decline--they still have a good deal to offer but may no longer be up for the week-to-week grind.  And, finally, there are players, such as Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko and Riise, who offer a lot of graft and heart but who seem to be moving further and further away from the level we need at Liverpool Football Club.

So, our goal should be to replace many of these squad players (especially the last few named) with players who are at first-team level or who at least can be knocking on that door very soon.  Until we do, however, our goal is to make ourselves hard to beat once more and to hope that we can find some sort of fluency by which our true-first teamers start to stamp their authority on matches once more and by which some of our squad players start to at least look the part of Liverpool players on the pitch.

[LFC #1]

Few people who are willing to offload Dirk and I have to disagree, I don't think he's first team material but he's a decent player who can create goals for others at times (see his excellent ball to Sissoko in the box on Satdee which Sissoko subsequently scuffed up of course) and brings other players into the game reaosanably well IMO. His work rate is of course out of this world, but he does lack a true goal threat, no one can deny that and for 10 million one would expect more.

That being said however I still think he's a useful player to have in the squad.

[The_Rock]

Only give a damn about star, 1st team and ok.

1)Star players
Reina
Gerrard
Kewell
Torres

2)1st team
Agger
Carragher
Alonso
Lucas
Mascherano
Pennant
Benayoun

3)OK
Crouch
Hyypia
Arbeloa
Finnan
Riise


The others to be cleared.....

[red_guy]

1)Star players
Reina
Gerrard
Kewell
Torres

2)1st team
Agger
Carragher
Alonso
Lucas
Mascherano
Pennant
Benayoun

3)OK
Crouch
Arbeloa
Finnan
Riise
Aurelio
kuyt

[RichardLFC1]

Players :

Reina STAR
Itandje OK

Agger STAR
Carragher STAR
Hyypia OFFLOAD
Arbeloa 1st team
Finnan 1st team
Riise OK
Aurelio OK

Gerrard STAR
Alonso STAR
Lucas OK
Mascherano 1st team
Sissoko OFFLOAD
Kewell STAR
Leto OK
Pennant 1st team
Babel OK
Benayoun 1st team

Torres STAR
Kuyt 1st team
Voronin OK
Crouch OFFLOAD

[heimdall]

Players :

Reina STAR
Itandje OK

Agger STAR
Carragher STAR
Hyypia OFFLOAD
Arbeloa 1st team
Finnan 1st team
Riise OK
Aurelio OK

Gerrard STAR
Alonso STAR
Lucas OK
Mascherano 1st team
Sissoko OFFLOAD
Kewell STAR
Leto OK
Pennant 1st team
Babel OK
Benayoun 1st team

Torres STAR
Kuyt 1st team
Voronin OK
Crouch OFFLOAD

I agree with most of you on this, but don't quite understand why Kewell gets a star rating, what is this based on, he hardly ever plays!! Star rating must be based on performances and contribution to the club and Kewell really hasn't done enough although he does of course have loads of potential but then so does Kuyt

What we desperately need is another top class striker and 2 great wingers, oh how I wish we had got Quaresmo in the summer.

[lakes10]

Sorry but I must stand up for Crouch, he is a very good player when he gets a few games.

[neil]

Reina Star
Itandje who knows?

Agger Star
Carragher Below Par
Hyypia Offload
Arbeloa 1st Team
Finnan Below Par
Riise 1st Team
Aurelio Below Par


Gerrard Star
Alonso Star
Lucas 1st Team
Mascherano 1st Team
Sissoko Offload
Kewell Offload
Leto Offload
Pennant Below Par

Babel 1st Team
Benayoun Below Par

Torres Star
Kuyt Below Par
Voronin Below Par
Crouch Below Par

/\ /\ /\

[Owzat]

I guess the most interesting thing, reading down and looking at what was said about Pennant, is the mixed feelings about players. The ultimate aim is to see if we think the squad is as strong as the £40m spent plus existing players should suggest it would be, and I believe the owners are expecting it to be (as are we!) Way too many offloads, squad players and "ok"s, if we're to push for the league surely we need AT LEAST 16-18 players of 1st team standard or above?

1st Team or above :-

Reina
Finnan
Agger
Carragher
Arbeloa
Gerrard
Mascherano
Alonso
Benayoun
Torres
Kuyt

You can just about make a team in my opinion, the rest are either ok/squad player standard ie ok to fill in, and the rest could go. In fact Kuyt is borderline, I'd probably want him as 3rd choice which might be a better way of doing this (in retrospect)

If we want to win the league I reckon the likes of Crouch, Sissoko, Pennant, Hyypia and Aurelio will have to go

Players like Riise, Leto and Babel are maybe good enough to complete the squad, as cover, but I am worried that we're filling the squad with some players who are young and not ready yet when we need a strong squad that is ready now. So maybe we are a couple of years behind Arsenal, we should have at least 18 good enough to win the league and I think we're falling quite a few short

Choices for the individual position

Reina - 1st XI
Itandje - 3rd XI - will he get much opportunity?

Carragher - 1st XI
Agger - 1st XI - good but maybe we can buy better
Finnan - 1st/2nd XI
Arbeloa - 2nd XI - doing a good job though
Riise - 2nd XI - not really a LB or LM
Aurelio - 3rd XI (offload)
Hyypia - 3rd XI (offload) - not quick enough if we want the title

Gerrard - 1st XI
Mascherano - 1st XI
Benayoun - 1st XI
Alonso - 2nd XI
Lucas - 3rd XI - not convinced yet, needs time
Sissoko - 3rd XI (offload) - needs to improve massively
Kewell - 3rd XI (offload) - too injury prone
Leto - 3rd XI - needs time
Pennant - 3rd XI (offload) - not quite good enough IMO
Babel - 3rd XI - needs time

Torres - 1st XI
Kuyt - 2nd XI
Voronin - 3rd XI - maybe give time to prove himself
Crouch - 3rd XI (offload) - never was good enough IMO, done nothing to change that view