Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1120597113]

I have the same stance that I had from the very beginning.  The whole arguement is not about rotation, over-rotation, just-right-rotation, consistent-rotation.  Everything stems down the the fact that we basically have 2 players for each position with almost equally convincing arguements for each.  At the end of the day this is what Rafa wants; every week there will be a new headache over selection and he is willing to put all his eggs in the one basket that rotation works.

Rafa is rotating the same amount that he was at the start of the season, the only thing that has changed is that people are not argueing as much about selection because there are less players to choose from.  With that in mind, we are winning now and we were not then.  Why that is I am not sure, many factors were at play and the cause of our poor form stems from many things.  Rafa has been making decisions true to his original philosophy from the start of this season to present. 

Has Rafa now got it right? No. I he always had it right.  It was the players that now have it right.

I am a believer in Rafa Benetiz, I would go as far as to say that any decision he makes is the right one.  If we lose a game that we should not have then it is 100% the fault of the players.  You may call me crazy, but at the end of the day we have a Manager of the highest level, one that I could comfortably say that I wouldnt swap for anyone else.  Many believe that we should be critical of our manager and always analyse him and apply pressure.  The way I see it, he makes better decisions then anyone else in the world bar "argueably a few".  We should be happy that for the forseeable future the last thing we have to worry about is our Manager.

Aurellio?
Dont Rotate him!!Great signing !

Great player lately and one that has a huge amount to do with us finding balance!!Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabioooooooooooooooooo! Aurellioooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[stmichael]

I'm still a Gerrard on the right man at heart Bob, simply because as I've said many times it's easier in my view to get him on the ball in the final third when he starts there. That said I can't argue with the results we've had since he moved to his favoured central midfield slot. My suspicion is however, that there was a change of emphasis in the play of Sissoko in the early part of the season which ahd a huge impact on the way that Gerrard performed. I obviously don't know whether he (Sissoko) had been told not to hunt the ball in the opposition final third with anything like the frequency we had become accustomed to, or whether Momo was simply off-form but I am absolutely convinced this impacted on the effectiveness of those around him.

FWIW my suspicion is that he had been asked to curtail his maraudiings in the hope that it would make us more compact and difficult to beat in the early part of the season. That the ploy failed is in the history books now of course, as the limitations of Sissoko as a pure holding midfielder were exposed and the loss of him as a game breaker behind enemy lines meant we began to look toothless and one dimensional going forward. Many pointed to the loss of form of Alonso and Gerrard at the time, but it was my suspicion then that Sissoko was the key. The fact that Gerrard has come into the central midfield slot and judging by reports reverted to a Sissoko (from last season) like role of closing down in the final third (with obvious Gerrard add-ons aswell) makes me think I might be onto something. All that said, there is always the distinct possibility I'm talking abject tosh 

good post bigmick. agree 100%. i've had this argument on several occasions with others on here (mainly peewee). i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

gerrard is an all-action, all over the pitch, high-tempo player. he doesn't have the first idea about how to slow the game down. whenever he was given the holding role for england he made mistakes, because he doesn't know how to go backwards in order to go forwards. he had a specialist holding man in hamman beside him for years and in the last two years we got torn apart on the break because stevie was out of position and didi no longer had the legs to do the job of two men.

i promise you on the majority of occasions we'll be a worse team for playing gerrard in the middle in a 4-4-2 against absolute top quality. as long as sissoko is fit again, i can guarantee that we'll see gerrard back on the right against barcelona, more to track ronaldinho than anything else.

[66-1112520797]

gerrard is an all-action, all over the pitch, high-tempo player. he doesn't have the first idea about how to slow the game down. whenever he was given the holding role for england he made mistakes, because he doesn't know how to go backwards in order to go forwards. he had a specialist holding man in hamman beside him for years and in the last two years we got torn apart on the break because stevie was out of position and didi no longer had the legs to do the job of two men

You were going on about how much discipline Gerrard has had over the last few games (positionally), in this thread I think. But why would you want someone who can dictate the pace of the game from there when we've already got that in Alonso ? Christ you can't expect him to do everything as you've already mention he's all power blah blah blah player. Tell me, can or does Momo Sissoko dictate the pace of the game ?

For example if you had Didi and Alonso in the middle, they'd be great defensively. But are too similar as they take up more or less the same positions. And would hardly offer anything going forward.

Next example, ( and we're on our way there too finding the perfect pairing) but not quite with Momo. An all action ball hunter. Who doesnt dictate the play, doesnt offer anything going forwrards. But helps break up opposing team attacks, wins the ball upfield and does a great job at it. But unfortunately isnt the best passer of the ball neither, so keeping possesion he isnt great at.
If you had all three in the middle, Momo Gerrard and Xabi, that would be excellent. But scene as we play two in the middle, its gotta be Gerrard for me.

Final example, and the complementary pair IMHO Gerrard and Alonso, need I say more.


Also before we signed Pennant everyone on these boards including me were insinuating we needed a wide player that hugs the touchline and offers width. Which Pennat does. Now you've changed your tune and say Gerrards better off there, when he doesnt give balance to the team as he goes driffting out of position. We lose width and Finnan loses cover, I've already seen it this season. Most people said he's not disciplined enough for the middle but the exact same thing can be said when he's out wide. We become narrow Finnan gets left exposed while he's off marauding further upfield. I've also seen it this season when Finnans in possesion but has no outlet to play the ball out.

[stmichael]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gerrard is far more effective starting from the right. He's not disciplined enough or positionally aware enough to play in the centre alongside Xabi. One of the main reasons we lost the plot for 10/15mins in the second half was because Gerrard went wondering and left Xabi to play against 2, sometimes 3 West Ham players.

There was an instance in the game yesterday that summed up the debate for me. A West Ham player just drifted in behind Gerrard and initially Gerrard did not react. Those who say Gerrard can play there say he just has to be told to defend, but they ignore the fact that there's a mindset required to do the role. Gerrard is wonderful at lots of things, but his defensive reading/anticipation isn't great. He gets away with it at times because of his pace and strong tackling but he doesn't always. He's a far better player when given the freedom to play in the final third. On the other hand people like Alonso and Hamann have a natural game that allows them to play that defensive role.

[redmikey]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gerrard is far more effective starting from the right. He's not disciplined enough or positionally aware enough to play in the centre alongside Xabi. One of the main reasons we lost the plot for 10/15mins in the second half was because Gerrard went wondering and left Xabi to play against 2, sometimes 3 West Ham players.

There was an instance in the game yesterday that summed up the debate for me. A West Ham player just drifted in behind Gerrard and initially Gerrard did not react. Those who say Gerrard can play there say he just has to be told to defend, but they ignore the fact that there's a mindset required to do the role. Gerrard is wonderful at lots of things, but his defensive reading/anticipation isn't great. He gets away with it at times because of his pace and strong tackling but he doesn't always. He's a far better player when given the freedom to play in the final third. On the other hand people like Alonso and Hamann have a natural game that allows them to play that defensive role.

great shout st mike

ihb that gerrard was allowed to develop into the player we see tearing teams to pieces by have didi there to carry out his defensive duties,
some fans and media try to pigeon hole him by saying he is centre mid and nothing else, they are wrong ,, rafa proved that by last year starting SG on the right and allowing him to roam around causing havoc where he could do the most damaged, on the edge of the box

[Sabre]

I'm not of the SG in the right nor SG in the middle camp. I think that there are some players than can play in the middle, others in the right, and others are so good -SG- That can play both positions.

The problem with Gerrard is about backing him up, if you have a happy LG drinking sangria on the left, a pure right winger in the right, and you play aswell with 2 strikers, it means that if Gerrard doesn't score and is dispossesed youhave torubles at the back. When he has played in the right this didn't happen because with Momo and Alonso everything is covered. So IMHO the problem is not right or middle, but overall team balance.

Now that we are accurate up front and everything we shoot is goal, and now that our defence is gelled together unlike at the start of the season, we can take some risks. In the Everton game away we didn't play badly but we paid all this mistakes. This mistakes are dearly paid if an away team scores at your home in the CL, so we'd better be careful. I'm sure Rafa will bear in mind this.

[66-1112520797]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gerrard is far more effective starting from the right. He's not disciplined enough or positionally aware enough to play in the centre alongside Xabi

Sorry to sound like Stu the red, but that is absolute bollox. What you've just said