Liverpool FC Forum

[SouthCoastShankly]

(let's just rule it out)

You've wrote us off already - sod off ya misery!

Rule it out - as in the odds are we won't win it. I'm not saying we CAN'T win it.

[supersub]

Nothing can ever compare in terms of excitement to winning a trophy.

Is correct but in today's modern football spin only supporters appreciate this incredible concept.For the managers and certain players finishing 2nd,3rd or 4th in the Premiership is the Holy Grail.

[Effes]

Football hasn't half changed over the years.

I think the clubs follow the money now i.e. Prem and Champs League - the other competitions are of
a lower priority because they involve much less prize money.
The fans obviously just love getting to a Cup Final.

[LFC #1]

DAV just a couple of questions:

How did Rafa devalue/not take seriously the FA Cup, we were nearly at full strength at the weekend? The league Cup i'll agree, I thought Rafa would've fielded a stronger side, especially after his "I'll need to rethink the team for Tuesday" comments after the FA Cup loss.

Rafa undervalued the FA cup in his first season, but then realised his mistake and we went on to win it last year, surely he isn't underestimating the importance of it?

And as for the Knwo his history business, I'm sorry but thats rubbish. He knows what this club is all about, he's spent hours and hours watching and reading about our illustrious past (as has is wife). Rafa knows what this club means mate (obviously not as much as a real fan) I don't think you should question his integrity in that regard.

[kobashi]

I'm not going to put this as a new post, maybe I should I don't no.
The whole game as changed since the glory days, priorities have changed  as south coast shankly states (which they obviously have)
So its  January and we are playing for 3rd place (All I'm saying on the European cup is that we have a chance like every other team left in the competition)
As a Liverpool supporter should I be excited by the prospect of finishing 3rd in the league?

no you shouldnt but you also shouldnt be excited about winning the Carling Cup or F.A. Cup and finishing 3rd in the league miles behind the leaders.

[Scottbot]

well this back to my original point about the cups
So this season we have nothing left to look forward to other than a possible 2nd place.
So if this is going to be the trend then, it dosen't give us the fans much to cheer about.
so is football as enjoyable as it was, in my opinion NO.
(and yes south coast shankly, i mean the past with booze and Cigs all round)

So is football as enjoyable as it was?

Of course it isn't Dav. The game is completely unrecognisable from 20-30 years ago. The league can only EVER be won by one of four teams (unless another Ambramovich enters the fray), the League Cup is now a tournament where the big sides play the kids and the smaller ones rest players in order to push for Premiership survival. sure, the FA Cup is nice to win but chairman, managers and players would much rather be in the Champions League. The Cup Winners Cup is gone and the once proud UEFA Cup is scoffed at by the big clubs.

That's football now pal but i get the impression from your post that you have only just noticed? It's been like it for years and as fans we just have to like it or lump it.

[Anfield rapper]

well this back to my original point about the cups
So this season we have nothing left to look forward to other than a possible 2nd place.
So if this is going to be the trend then, it dosen't give us the fans much to cheer about.
so is football as enjoyable as it was, in my opinion NO.
(and yes south coast shankly, i mean the past with booze and Cigs all round)

If your going to look at it like that what has any club below us got to look forward to? Many clubs would love to be in our position. I know its not as good a position as we were in 20 odd years ago but other teams have had much more investment and better managment than us recently. We are where we are and we have to make the most of it. Investment is whats needed to get this club back to the top. That and good managment.

I know what you mean though, it would have been nice to have a good run the FA cup, but when we draw Arsenal in the 3rd round there's always a chance we could go out (Rafa picking our 2nd choice Keeper doesn't help). In the Carling Cup we went out in the quater finals to Arsenal which isn't bad. The only bad thing is the manner in which we went out which i think happened because Arsenal had much better squad players than us. Hopefully once we get some investment this can change.

The key game to judge how good we really are will be the home game against arsenal in the league. That will be two full strength teams (allowing for the odd injury) playing one another. At the moment they have shown they are a better team but a win against them at Anfield will be a big lift to our confidence and will show people these two results were blips.

[Sabre]

What is so great about finishing 2nd?

FInishing second is important because you avoid a difficult preliminary round to enter the CHampions League. In this round you can find teams like Hamburg and you aren't in form yet, so those games are dangerous. Plus, entering an important competition that early changes a lot the plans for the preseason.

[jonathan steel]

"That's the whole point - the demands of the modern game REQUIRE rotation to continue to compete competitively. Simple really "

do you mean rotation in the sense of in a match rotate the players, or as a team in general, changing the starting players and in turn the team itself?

very interesting read, so many people with different opinions about how liverpool is run.

Some people totaly blame the managers, however i believe the manager is only about 65% responsible, afterall if you are the best manager managing the worst players you aint gonna get far.

So even though sometimes managers seem to be bad, it might be external cercumstances that the team is doing unwell.

anyway nice post

Jonathan (liverpool credit card associate)

[Bad Bob]

How did Rafa devalue/not take seriously the FA Cup, we were nearly at full strength at the weekend? The league Cup i'll agree, I thought Rafa would've fielded a stronger side, especially after his "I'll need to rethink the team for Tuesday" comments after the FA Cup loss.

Spot on.  Dudek apart--feckin' pre-season promise!--I thought Rafa put out his best available side in the FA Cup.  The lads didn't do it on the day and we lost but there's no real shame in going out to Arsenal--it's just unfortunate we drew a big team so soon in the competition.

As for the Carling Cup, I think this was a clear case of Rafa's "head" coming smack up against the supporters' hearts.  Had the fogged out game been played prior to Christmas and had Rafa fielded the same under-strength team with the same result, I don't think a lot of people would have moaned too much.  Truth is, the Carling Cup really is the poor cousin of the domestic cups and we all know it.  Thing is, once we got knocked out of the FA Cup--and knowing that Barca stands in our way in Europe--the Carling Cup took on a whole new level of importance for everyone except Rafa.  He approached it pretty much as he would have in early December whereas we all saw it as a last reasonable chance to win silverware this season.  I wouldn't say that Rafa doesn't care, per se, just that he has a firm game plan about how to approach each competition--one he clearly sticks to regardless of how the context changes.  Maybe, next time, he'll recognize what a trophy--even a pissant one--means to supporters and change tack?  We'll see.

One thing's clear to me, though.  Winning the Carling Cup would have merely papered over some cracks that are perhaps best left exposed and addressed.  Not saying I wouldn't have liked to win it, just saying that perhaps crashing out of both cups in the way we did will bring about constructive change in the near future and do more good to the club long-term than winning the thing could ever do.  Maybe a season without trophies is exactly what the board, the coaches, the players and the fans need to underscore the work yet to be done. 

[Owzat]

There were simple solutions to this catalogue of disasters, unfortunately Rafa has his 'priority list' and got a bee in his bonnet over Xmas fixtures and so was always likely to rest players when he saw appropriate. I would have rested players over the course of the games, rotate our three CBs, rotate our strikers and make most of what midfield we have still standing. The keeper doesn't need a rest, when does a keeper ever sprint?!?!? He may not stand still all game but his movement is comparitively minimal.

For example, I'd have played Agger & Carra in the FA Cup tie, Agger & Hyypia in the Carling Cup tie and Carra & Hyppia against Watford tomorrow. Have the CB left out on the bench. Each CB would play 180 minutes out of 270. Rotating the strikers is even easier with four of them, not that scoring goals was a particular problem with 4 in the 2 cup defeats. Midfield is a problem because of a growing injury list, I haven't seen any signings likely to feature in the coming months and that is worrying.

Truth is cups have become prioritised and sides are happy to rest players for a competition they deem more important. That means a QUARTER-FINAL plays second, nay third or even fourth fiddle to finishing top four in the Premiership and a cup THIRD ROUND tie which has five more matches to go after that. I'd take suggestions the Champions League is a priority IF it was coming up soon but it is over a month away. We have some testing fixtures coming up soon but I doubt Rafa will play the same XI every game so some resting will follow. What our early exits mean is we will have plenty of midweeks and weekends off from now to the end of the season so players will get plenty of rest

13/01 Watford (a)
20/01 Chelsea (h)
30/01 West Ham (a)
03/02 Everton (h)
10/02 Newcastle (a)
21/02 Barcelona (a)

6 fixtures in 40 days and a maximum 23 for the rest of the season (13/01 to 13/05), it's not even like we've games in hand in the Premiership