Liverpool FC Forum

[DAV]

South coast shankly - you talk like the amount of games issue is a new thing. Well like it or not I'm going to quote the past.
I believe it was 1984 under Fagan. Did we not win the League,euro cup and the League cup in 1 season. Playing as many games as we play today. I'm sure their are numerous stats like this involving Liverpool.
so this comment you made ""The game nowa days is more about stamina over the season and managing your squad to be successful over long periods of time. "" I must say I don't understand what you are getting at.
I don't agree with what I'm going to say next but.
If Managers don't want to take a competition serious then why not opt out of it, it would reduce the fixtures in a season and stop things like last night happening. Also the supporters would not be throwing money away on sub-standard football at inflated prices.

[SouthCoastShankly]

I totally agree with Dav; The opening post is spot on and the use of "Shankly" in your user name and yet reply like that is a contradiction to the manner the great man played the game.

I am sick and tired of hearing this spin about physical levels injuring players,burnout blah blahcrap .

Not at all.

Bill Shankly created a side and way of playing that dominated the footballing environment in which he played.

I can admire what he did and respect him for what he did for the club but that doesn't mean that by endorsing him as a manager in my username I think we should imitate his style.

Quite frankly whether you believe burnout is an shit excuse or not its reality. Most players playing in Shankly's days would never be able to compete over a season, playing the amount of games we now play, like our boys do. The game nowadays is more about stamina over the season and managing your squad to be successful over long periods of time. The sooner fans start to realise this the quicker you can start seeing the real issues with defeats like last nights.

The past is the past and its a glorious one. I'm fed up with fans and pundits alike comparing this team to the great Liverpool teams of the past.

Its a different team and different game creating a different history.

It is a differnt type of game now and does have more pace but not THAT much different, and players of yesteryear would easily be able to play in the premiership if they were about now.
You my friend are guilty of listening to the media and our manager too much imo.
Manchester United dont rotate players like we do, and they are doing just fine.
If rafa was that worried about the recovery time in between last nights game and Watford on Saturday...why did he play our most influential player the full 90 minutes ?
Nearly every player in our squad could play every game no problem, yeah they would be tired, but the confidence team spirit and general morale would be better.

I agree that the rotation policy that Rafa employs sometimes is wrong - he does rotate too much. My argument is you cannot expect to play the same squad of 16 in every game.

I totally disagree that players of yesteryear could play in the premiership. Most of them used to smoke for gods sake! Football has changed a lot in the modern game, you need to know more about aspects like psychology, conditioning and diet. You can choose to ignore it or deny it but its a fact - that is why every professional club, at least in the premiership, devote so much time and effort into addressing these aspects.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1942894,00.html

"Even for perfect pros it takes a particular type of physical specimen to match the standards of a Steven Gerrard. The G-type is the very model of the modern midfield general. George "Stroller" Graham gave me the job spec. "Great engine, high fitness level and the ability to win the ball back." Would Glenn Hoddle make it now? "As long as he had people beside him to compensate." Could Stroller stroll? "I don't think so."

Prozone has worked out that the number of runs made during matches at three-quarters of sprint pace or faster increased from 627 per team per match in 2002-03 to 1,209 in 2005-06, and the ground covered while sprinting increased by 40% over that four-year period. Gerrard is not the exception, he is the rule. I bet Tomas Brolin is feeling hungry just reading this.

It cuts the other way. Take Everton's James McFadden, for example - a player with loads of skill but not a lot of Premiership pace. He is a very good player and 20 years ago he would have been in anybody's starting XI, not the Everton bench.

Wilson identified what he sees as the big difference between then and now. "In coaching we used to talk about pacing the ball so that it was easy for the player receiving it. Now they just welly the ball at each other and are expected to deal with it. I saw [Dennis] Bergkamp in training yelling, 'Why did you hit it so slowly at me. Hit my chest, thigh, anywhere. I'll deal with it'." Hughie Gallacher? He would not know what had hit him."

[DAV]

I for one have not mentioned getting rid of RB.
IF players like Rush/Keegan and players of the past were playing today they would follow the same diet and training so on as current players.
So to say they would'nt be up to the premiership. Is well to put it simply
WRONG
and south coast shankly read my post before your last 1.

[SouthCoastShankly]

I for one have not mentioned getting rid of RB.

Nor have I

IF players like Rush/Keegan and players of the past were playing today they would follow the same diet and training so on as current players.
So to say they would'nt be up to the premiership. Is well to put it simply
WRONG

That's obvious! The whole point of my argument is that some have said they won't accept that burnout is a possibility in today's game and they don't see why some rotation is necessary. My argument is that as the game is now so much faster if a footballer of old were asked to play in the condition they WERE in back then they'd never last. It's a "what if" scenario that's aim is to show the differences in the modern game to the older one.

I believe it was 1984 under Fagan. Did we not win the League,euro cup and the League cup in 1 season. Playing as many games as we play today. I'm sure their are numerous stats like this involving Liverpool.
so this comment you made ""The game nowa days is more about stamina over the season and managing your squad to be successful over long periods of time. "" I must say I don't understand what you are getting at.

Again you need to read more than just one sentence of my posts. I understand that there have been seasons in the past that have rivalled recent seasons in terms of games played but they hardly are equal in terms of game speed and fitness requirements to complete them??!! That's the whole point - the demands of the modern game REQUIRE rotation to continue to compete competitively. Simple really

[stmichael]

I totally agree with Dav; The opening post is spot on and the use of "Shankly" in your user name and yet reply like that is a contradiction to the manner the great man played the game.

I am sick and tired of hearing this spin about physical levels injuring players,burnout blah blahcrap .

Not at all.

Bill Shankly created a side and way of playing that dominated the footballing environment in which he played.

I can admire what he did and respect him for what he did for the club but that doesn't mean that by endorsing him as a manager in my username I think we should imitate his style.

Quite frankly whether you believe burnout is an shit excuse or not its reality. Most players playing in Shankly's days would never be able to compete over a season, playing the amount of games we now play, like our boys do. The game nowadays is more about stamina over the season and managing your squad to be successful over long periods of time. The sooner fans start to realise this the quicker you can start seeing the real issues with defeats like last nights.

The past is the past and its a glorious one. I'm fed up with fans and pundits alike comparing this team to the great Liverpool teams of the past.

Its a different team and different game creating a different history.

Of course the game has moved on somewhat since the days of the late great Shankley and Paisley.

Yes Shanks did say about giving 100% and I have heard every manager say it since. Shanks had the option to play a full strength side week in week out as they're was not as many games and money up for grabs in those days. I don't think Rafa should be lambasted for this.

He asks his team to play a specific way, to do specific things. When your team does stick to even performing the basic task it is not down to the mananger. Dudek was the major chink in the armour last night. As has been stated on other threads, you have a confident goalkeeper you have confident back line and that flows through the team. Dudek had the oppurtunity to shove the critical comments down everybody's throats after Saturdays performance and he not only let the team down, he let himself down.

And yes I do feel Rafa gives a f#ck, you only have to look at the anger in his face when he talks in interviews after the match. He just has a way of not showing it in public.

[Ace Ventura]

I for one have not mentioned getting rid of RB.
IF players like Rush/Keegan and players of the past were playing today they would follow the same diet and training so on as current players.
So to say they would'nt be up to the premiership. Is well to put it simply
WRONG
and south coast shankly read my post before your last 1.

Thats just saved me posting a reply.

Well nearly 

Of course the players of past generations would adapt to the modern ways, re diets etc.

Hoddle played that way because he could but at the end of the day he was a professional sportsman and would have adapted if needed.
Loads of players still smoke now, Zidane smokes all of the time and Didi Hamann i've seen smoking in the bookies by our work, they seemed to cope fine.

I agree with the fact that we need squads, when you can see a player is jaded then take him out...rafa rotates no matter what, because he feels that players are prone to injuries when they are tired. That is probably right, but ask any footballer whether they play better when they have a consistant run of games and they will all say yes.

[supersub]

Yes Shanks did say about giving 100% and I have heard every manager say it since. Shanks had the option to play a full strength side week in week out as they're was not as many games and money up for grabs in those days.

How many games do you think were played in "Those Days"

[Ace Ventura]

Yes Shanks did say about giving 100% and I have heard every manager say it since. Shanks had the option to play a full strength side week in week out as they're was not as many games and money up for grabs in those days.

How many games do you think were played in "Those Days"

Well the league had more teams in it for one, so there was definately more league games.
The champions league with its 6 games minimum is probably more than the old European cup, but not by that many.
It is an excuse that managers use, and i think Rafa has gone too far with his rotation.
Ferguson does it at united...but only every now and again.
We do it every game.

[DAV]

I'm not going to put this as a new post, maybe I should I don't no.
The whole game as changed since the glory days, priorities have changed  as south coast shankly states (which they obviously have)
So its  January and we are playing for 3rd place (All I'm saying on the European cup is that we have a chance like every other team left in the competition)
As a Liverpool supporter should I be excited by the prospect of finishing 3rd in the league?

[SouthCoastShankly]

Aside from last weeks disasters we still the form team based on last 8 league games. Chelsea on the other hand are 4th on form (Football365.com)

Assuming we beat Watford we go into the game against Chelsea knowing a win will put us just 5 points behind with a considerably easier fixture list that they have. Second suddenly is a possibility.

[DAV]

so should I be excited by a possible 2nd place finish?

[SouthCoastShankly]

Well its more exciting than finish 3rd or 4th.

Nothing can ever compare in terms of excitement to winning a trophy. unfortunately for us there is only one real trophy left to play for and that is the CL which is going to be a sod to win this year (let's just rule it out)

[Roger Red Hat]

(let's just rule it out)

You've wrote us off already - sod off ya misery!

[DAV]

well this back to my original point about the cups
So this season we have nothing left to look forward to other than a possible 2nd place.
So if this is going to be the trend then, it dosen't give us the fans much to cheer about.
so is football as enjoyable as it was, in my opinion NO.
(and yes south coast shankly, i mean the past with booze and Cigs all round)

[puroresu]

What is so great about finishing 2nd?