LUCAS LEIVA - Official Thread

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Postby Fowler_E7 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:44 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Once again he virtually controlled the midfield and totally dictated the pace of the game ,different class... one of the most underrated players in the premiership .... right now wouldn't take 30 million for him that's how important he's become

hahahahahahahahahaha are you serious! 30mil my back foot. No doubting Lucas improvement this year, but the guy has only improved from an embarrsement to competent. Hes matured and was excellent versus Chelsea, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking that we have a top class player on our hands. Hes decent nothing more, nothing less and we must still aim to get a player in his position in the future.
Last edited by Fowler_E7 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Zidane » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:22 pm

How people STILL don't see how crucial he is now is beyond me, if we lost him now our midfield would turn into utter sh!t once again and that's the truth.
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Postby aCe' » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:57 pm

Lucas is someone i've criticized alot over the years and I still do tbh when he has a bad day... The guy is an average footballer and thats something that wont change regardless of his performances... However, he's been playing very well in recent games and deserves every bit of credit he gets imo..
The thing is, his role in the side was absolutely crucial in the previous setup and is even more in the current one... He's a a very important player for the side given what he's expected to do and if he has a bad game then I doubt our chances of winning a game would be that high...
He's been playing beyond his abilities, and deserves all the respect and credit for that.

However, I'm still convinced that we can and should be doing better simply because theres something about him that doesnt inspire confidence at either end of the pitch.. He's still prone to mistakes at the back (silly freekicks and losing possession) and despite major improvements in his passing game in the past few games is still not that commanding figure to take the ball out from the back that we need...

Maybe im being harsh on the guy.. He's been very good and deserves his spot in the first team with his performances
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Postby Greavesie » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:16 pm

Zidane wrote:How people STILL don't see how crucial he is now is beyond me, if we lost him now our midfield would turn into utter sh!t once again and that's the truth.

he probably is and not many would dispute that. The main argument is there are players out there who will have more to their game and do a better job than what Lucas is. He's been playing great and his place in the squad is pretty secure but that doesn't mean he is indispensable by any means
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Postby The Good Yank » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:05 am

Bobby McMahon on Fox Soccer Channel (Not a fan of Liverpool) picks a "Player of the week" every Monday, This is in regards to all of Europe, Usually it's Messi or Eto or Lampard etc.  Well this week... He picked Lucas.  Well done to the only blonde haired fair skinned Brazilian apart from "The Boys of Brazil"
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:59 am

how much would he be worth in today's market? months ago most of us would sell him for 10million.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:43 am

Stolen from another forum



Lucas is running our midfield.

Don't laugh. Every time I hear about him and those wonderful opta statistics he's always made more successful tackles than any other midfielder and has the best passing success rate in the entire team. Furthermore, looking at him, he's the one taking the ball of the back 4 and distributing it further forward, linking the whole team together. Isn't that running the midfield?

He obviously doesn't have anywhere the technical ability of Alonso or Xavi, but he's developed a composure and purpose about his positioning and passing. He's the go to guy when we want to keep posession. Gerrard, Maxi or Meireles run out of space? They slide it back to Lucas to start over again because he's making himself available. For the goal yesterday he popped the ball around with the back 3 for about 15 passes before releasing Kelly, who in turn released Gerrard. Looks simple but it's good midfield play and a lot of players and teams don't do that. We didn't under Hodgson, we never took more than 4 or 5 passes around the back before panic-passing it in the general direction of N'Gog or Torres.

Why is there still a doubt about him in some quarters?

Because he commits fouls? Shock horror, a defensive midfielder fouls someone. Patrick Vieira holds the record for the most red cards in the Premier League, and whilst not a pure holding midfielder, he was tasked with the bulk of the ball winning in the Arsenal midfield. He commited fouls. So did Keane. Mascherano commited fouls. Sissoko commited fouls. Even Hamann and Alonso, players you'd associate with neat steals rather than crunching 'ball and man' efforts, commited fouls. I'm not saying Lucas is as good as the Kaiser, as a matter of fact, I'm certain he isn't, but that the Kaiser gave away a few freekicks doesn't make people think he wasn't good enough. Lucas just looks clumsier doing it, but they all commit fouls. It's part of the position.

What else? He can't hit 'Alonso passes'? Do you know what one of Alonso's best strengths is? Knowing when not to play the Alonso pass. Knowing when it was too difficult to execute or simply wasn't needed. As a matter of fact, at most, 1 pass in every 10 he made was the 40+ yard crossfielder. Probably even less than that. Most of his passes were the boring old <15 yards along the ground efforts. Because that's what keeps you in possession. Plenty of players can hit 'Alonso passes' but aren't considered one of the best playmakers about. Gerrard's a great example of this, he has just as much ability to play a long pass as Alonso, but for every 40 yard wonderball that sent little Mikey away during the peak of Houllier's tenure, Gerrard turned the ball over to the opposition at least 5 times by trying it when it was just simply too difficult to take out the defender with the pass but still let Owen get on the end of it.
You don't need to hit the 'Alonso pass' to be a good at using the ball in midfield. If you can, then great, it's what seperates a great playmaker, like Alonso or Xavi, from just a good one, like Lucas. But it's not essential.

Last possible thing I can think of against him is that he gets a bit of help from Gerrard, Meireles and now with the back 3, Agger. Hamann got help from Murphy, Gerrard and McAllister. Alonso got help from Gerrard or Mascher, or even Sissoko before his eye injury. Again, Lucas is neither Hamann or Alonso, but no one ever said they weren't good enough because they had other good players around them, so it shouldn't be said about Lucas either.

He's grown into the role big time this season. It's possible he'll undermine me by playing badly for the rest of the season, but I expect him to remain quietly effective. This doesn't mean we don't need another midfielder come the summer - quite simply we do, since Spearing and Poulsen aren't good enough and Shelvey is unproven. But it doesn't mean Lucas should be sold or consigned to permanent duty on the substitutes bench.
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Postby stmichael » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:17 pm

That's a good article below.

Ace is spot on with regards to Lucas' role in the side. If he's not in the side the whole structure of the team falls apart and we don't really have a decent alternative. See the Fulham game for example when we really didn't perform at all.

We still need a top class out and out defensive midfielder in the summer though.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:57 pm

stmichael wrote:That's a good article below.

Ace is spot on with regards to Lucas' role in the side. If he's not in the side the whole structure of the team falls apart and we don't really have a decent alternative. See the Fulham game for example when we really didn't perform at all.

We still need a top class out and out defensive midfielder in the summer though.

where is the article below?
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:04 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:hahahahahahahahahaha are you serious! 30mil my back foot. No doubting Lucas improvement this year, but the guy has only improved from an embarrsement to competent. Hes matured and was excellent versus Chelsea, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking that we have a top class player on our hands. Hes decent nothing more, nothing less and we must still aim to get a player in his position in the future.

A touch excessive with the ha ha's but who am I to mock the afflicted seems to me  anyone  born with a back foot needs my sympathy more than my scorn   :D
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:38 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:hahahahahahahahahaha are you serious! 30mil my back foot. No doubting Lucas improvement this year, but the guy has only improved from an embarrsement to competent. Hes matured and was excellent versus Chelsea, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking that we have a top class player on our hands. Hes decent nothing more, nothing less and we must still aim to get a player in his position in the future.

A touch excessive with the ha ha's but who am I to mock the afflicted seems to me  anyone  born with a back foot needs my sympathy more than my scorn   :D

touche  :D
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Postby stmichael » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:00 pm

aCe' wrote:Lucas is someone i've criticized alot over the years and I still do tbh when he has a bad day... The guy is an average footballer and thats something that wont change regardless of his performances... However, he's been playing very well in recent games and deserves every bit of credit he gets imo..
The thing is, his role in the side was absolutely crucial in the previous setup and is even more in the current one... He's a a very important player for the side given what he's expected to do and if he has a bad game then I doubt our chances of winning a game would be that high...
He's been playing beyond his abilities, and deserves all the respect and credit for that.

However, I'm still convinced that we can and should be doing better simply because theres something about him that doesnt inspire confidence at either end of the pitch.. He's still prone to mistakes at the back (silly freekicks and losing possession) and despite major improvements in his passing game in the past few games is still not that commanding figure to take the ball out from the back that we need...

Maybe im being harsh on the guy.. He's been very good and deserves his spot in the first team with his performances

Is Lucas a good player? Yes, his recent form has proved that he has what it takes to make it in the Premier League. Is he flashy? No, but you don't have to be. He is very effective and good at what he does, which may not make him a nice player to watch, but it certainly (in my eyes) makes him a valuble asset. I also would say he is constantly improving, and whilst when he started off at the club he looked rather hapless, and he wasn't really improving, I would say at the moment he is developing very well. There is however, a limit to his capabilities. He is somewhat handicapped by the fact that he isn't very fast, but he reads the game well and pops up in the right place at the right time more often than not. Whether he will carry on in this vein in the future remains to be seen, but I feel that his recent form is not so much down to form as it is to general ability.

He is still very young, and for such a young foreigner, he already has a lot of Premier League experience. He seems to be a nice lad, who is absolutely dedicated to the club, and works as hard as any. I don't think he should be forgotten about if we sign another CM. Yes he is probably 3rd in the pecking order behind Meireles and Gerrard, but the way we are set up, all three players can currently play to their strengths.
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Postby PabloMedina28 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:20 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Stolen from another forum



Lucas is running our midfield.

Don't laugh. Every time I hear about him and those wonderful opta statistics he's always made more successful tackles than any other midfielder and has the best passing success rate in the entire team. Furthermore, looking at him, he's the one taking the ball of the back 4 and distributing it further forward, linking the whole team together. Isn't that running the midfield?

He obviously doesn't have anywhere the technical ability of Alonso or Xavi, but he's developed a composure and purpose about his positioning and passing. He's the go to guy when we want to keep posession. Gerrard, Maxi or Meireles run out of space? They slide it back to Lucas to start over again because he's making himself available. For the goal yesterday he popped the ball around with the back 3 for about 15 passes before releasing Kelly, who in turn released Gerrard. Looks simple but it's good midfield play and a lot of players and teams don't do that. We didn't under Hodgson, we never took more than 4 or 5 passes around the back before panic-passing it in the general direction of N'Gog or Torres.

Why is there still a doubt about him in some quarters?

Because he commits fouls? Shock horror, a defensive midfielder fouls someone. Patrick Vieira holds the record for the most red cards in the Premier League, and whilst not a pure holding midfielder, he was tasked with the bulk of the ball winning in the Arsenal midfield. He commited fouls. So did Keane. Mascherano commited fouls. Sissoko commited fouls. Even Hamann and Alonso, players you'd associate with neat steals rather than crunching 'ball and man' efforts, commited fouls. I'm not saying Lucas is as good as the Kaiser, as a matter of fact, I'm certain he isn't, but that the Kaiser gave away a few freekicks doesn't make people think he wasn't good enough. Lucas just looks clumsier doing it, but they all commit fouls. It's part of the position.

What else? He can't hit 'Alonso passes'? Do you know what one of Alonso's best strengths is? Knowing when not to play the Alonso pass. Knowing when it was too difficult to execute or simply wasn't needed. As a matter of fact, at most, 1 pass in every 10 he made was the 40+ yard crossfielder. Probably even less than that. Most of his passes were the boring old <15 yards along the ground efforts. Because that's what keeps you in possession. Plenty of players can hit 'Alonso passes' but aren't considered one of the best playmakers about. Gerrard's a great example of this, he has just as much ability to play a long pass as Alonso, but for every 40 yard wonderball that sent little Mikey away during the peak of Houllier's tenure, Gerrard turned the ball over to the opposition at least 5 times by trying it when it was just simply too difficult to take out the defender with the pass but still let Owen get on the end of it.
You don't need to hit the 'Alonso pass' to be a good at using the ball in midfield. If you can, then great, it's what seperates a great playmaker, like Alonso or Xavi, from just a good one, like Lucas. But it's not essential.

Last possible thing I can think of against him is that he gets a bit of help from Gerrard, Meireles and now with the back 3, Agger. Hamann got help from Murphy, Gerrard and McAllister. Alonso got help from Gerrard or Mascher, or even Sissoko before his eye injury. Again, Lucas is neither Hamann or Alonso, but no one ever said they weren't good enough because they had other good players around them, so it shouldn't be said about Lucas either.

He's grown into the role big time this season. It's possible he'll undermine me by playing badly for the rest of the season, but I expect him to remain quietly effective. This doesn't mean we don't need another midfielder come the summer - quite simply we do, since Spearing and Poulsen aren't good enough and Shelvey is unproven. But it doesn't mean Lucas should be sold or consigned to permanent duty on the substitutes bench.

Spot On
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Postby Igor Zidane » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:28 pm

Lucas Leiva: From Purslow's list to Liverpool FC pass master

    * By Ben Thornley, Head of Sport
    * Feb 10 201   
 
SEVEN months ago his name featured prominently on Christian Purslow's cull list. Now it's among the first on Kenny Dalglish's team sheet.
The likes of Martin Kelly and Raul Merieles may have dominated the headlines as Dalglish has resuscitated Liverpool's season, but no other player is thriving under the Scot quite like Lucas Leiva.
If the bungling Roy Hodgson did one thing right in his disastrous six months in charge it was to ignore Purslow – who failed to grasp the difference between the remit of manager and managing director – when he sought to usher Lucas through the exit along with Rafa Benitez and a host of his signings.
The 24-year-old rewarded Hodgson with a series of fine displays, yet the return of Dalglish has inspired him to reach new heights.
Lucas is revelling in the Reds legend’s pass-and-move philosophy. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, given that it is as much the way of Brazil as it is Liverpool.
If Momo Sissoko was once described as the Reds’ “battery” by Benitez, then the former Gremio star is their pendulum, his rhythmic distribution dictating the tempo of Liverpool’s play – something he did to great effect in the 1-0 defeat of Chelsea.
Just as important, however, is his movement – the Brazilian always making himself available for a pass – relentless pressing and defensive grit.
If an indicator of his performance at Stamford Bridge was needed, then Lucas’ Opta Index stats provide it.
Against Carlo Ancelotti’s men, he completed 89% of attempted passes, 82% in Chelsea’s half.
They are figures impressive enough before you consider the calibre of midfield opposition and the high intensity of the game.
It’s been a similar story in each of his outings under Dalglish, although his pass completion rate for the entire campaign – 84% – is of an equally high calibre.
Indeed, the consensus at Anfield is that Lucas has been Liverpool’s most consistent outfield player of the last 12 to 18 months.
No statistic can accurately measure his greatest quality, however – his character, demonstrated best when overcoming the Anfield boo boys and the criticism of the press during his early days at Liverpool while he was adapting to a new country, league  and position.
Indeed, many unkind words about the midfielder were typed by these hands and for that this observer is both embarrassed and apologetic.
Perhaps there are still weaknesses in  Lucas' game – the occasional lapse in concentration and shortage  of goals.
But for too long have people focused on what he is not rather than what he  is, with the likeable Brazilian unfairly judged by the standards of Xabi Alonso and Javier Mascherano, two players arguably the finest in their position in European football.
However, anyone who has seen the footage of Lucas' career in Brazil – when he became the youngest ever winner of the Bola de Ouro  – will suspect  there is still more to come from the £6m signing.
Just as anyone who remembers Dalglish’s first spell in charge at Anfield knows this sequence of  four successive victories  is   merely a taste of the future under King Kenny.
A future Lucas will undoubtedly play a key role in.
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Postby masterraj » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:40 pm

Lucas has def improved by a lot but one thing about his passing Ive noticed is he will make bad passes as in a player will have two players on him and he will choose to pass to them putting the player under pressure for no reason, anyone else notice this? If he stops this and quits giving away needless fouls he is good at what hes supposed to do.
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