Liverpool FC Forum

[maguskwt]

I think this best position thing is non-sense... he's not performing because he doesn't excel in anything, in other words he's not good enough. He will improve surely... but how fast? If we play him week in week out from here on out he will probably become a Danny Murphy type of player when he's 30 but surely this will be to the detriment of the team. The guy is a good guy, he doesn't complain like Benayoun or Riera and he gives 100% when he is called upon. But he's just not good enough. Sell him when he still looks 'promising' or keep him purely as a back up/ squad player until he requests for a transfer.

[Greavesie]

christ he gets a lot of stick doesnt he?   he's only second to Rafa round here

I agree with Taff

[akumaface]

Stat doesn't tell the whole story. his passes were always 5 yards to the left of right. I saw it with my naked eye. He is just not good enough. I had never once blame him for being the Brazilian Player of the year or being compared to Gerrard etc as it is not his fault. Just that his performance on the field would strongly suggest he is not good enough to play for LFC. He might excel in the Italian league but not in EPL.

[only me]

Lucas

Lucas: to many Liverpool fans the name signifies a figure of fun, ridicule and scapegoat-ism.  To some: a player whose very existence fuels more ire than is logical.  A young man that arrived at Anfield with the tag ‘the Brazilian Steven Gerrard’ and came out the other side of the past 3 seasons being compared to something more akin to the Icelandic David May.  The question is: what is it that made him so unpopular with a section of his own supporters?  At what point in the first few months of his Liverpool career did a player with apparently so much promise come to be deemed the cause of all the teams’ ills? ...........

As a prospect, Lucas is a promising young footballer.  As a player, he is an above-average youngster with a lot of top-level experience already.  He has played for one of the biggest clubs in his native Brazil before moving onto one of the biggest clubs in the world, and has played several times already for his country; even captaining the U21 side on numerous occasions, and all of this before his 21st birthday.  So surely his talent (or prospective talent) cannot be in question, as his 3 ‘full’ seasons as a Liverpool player he has played 83 games for club and country (78 for his club), scoring 4 times assisting in 11 goals.  For a player who usually (although, has on occasion played further forward) sits in what is, effectively, ‘the hole’ in front of the back four those are not bad stats at all.  They compare favorably to his usual partner in that deep, two-man midfield – Mascherano – with whom he often formed a very destructive partnership under Rafa Benitez, and who in the same period of time managed 132 games for club and country, with only 2 goals and 4 assists.  Some would argue that they are different players, with different roles and, ordinarily, that would be true.  However, under Benitez both players tended to occupy the same area of the field, with the same role and perhaps only slightly differing orders.  The fact remains however, that they played in the same area of the field, with similar success.  The difference being that Mascherano is feted as a master of his art.  Some would even say he is the best in his position in the world since Claude Makelele’s retirement.  Indeed, this would appear to be true, as the Opta stats for last season show that he was the most successful tackler in the Premier League, and managed close to 200 tackles and a success rate of 81%.  On the other hand, Lucas Leiva is not often seen so favourably and yet the stats show that for the same season, he played only 8 less games overall and yet managed to be the third most successful tackler in the League.  During the same season, his pass completion rate reached 84%, bettered only by one player.  Given that he was top at Christmas with 87% and his level dropped only 3% in the ensuing 5 months suggests he maintained a high-level all season long, and yet this again goes unnoticed.

On the other hand, he committed somewhere in the region of 60 fouls last season, picking up 9 yellow cards which may point to his lack of either discipline or experience in the position he currently occupies.  It may also go some way to explain why he is often cited as the prime reason for the first teams woes, as given the importance of the position he occupies, free-kicks, corners and penalties are all likely to lead to goal-scoring (and potentially game-losing) opportunities but blame cannot always lie solely with one player, as is the case in any sports team.

As already mentioned, his comparisons on arrival to Steven Gerrard will have done him no favours.  Comparing young, untried and unheard of players to legends of the game is a crime often committed by even the most experienced managers.  Xabi Alonso was only able to rise above such comparisons after it became obvious he was a totally different type of player, and quite a good one at that.  So comparing this rather expensive young Brazilian to the club’s captain – a man who had already attained near mythical status with his match-winning performances – will have already set alarm bells ringing in many fan’s minds (remember Diao, remember Diarra?).  Coupled with this, one of Lucas’s first major contributions was during a derby at Goodison where he had a huge hand in winning the game when coming on as a substitute… for his captain.  So, perhaps the suggestion by his former manager that he could someday be considered an equal to Steven Gerrard, simply meant to some supporters that he one day would replace him, and this signaled a threat to their hero.  Many a player’s fledgling career has crashed and burned thanks to un-warranted comparisons.  It would be unjust to let Lucas Leiva go the same way for comments made by others that may have riled some supporters.

The stats and facts then, would seem to point to a promising young midfielder, who is simply a victim of circumstance; wrong place, wrong time.  His ability going forward has yet to be fully tested but his assists/goals from such a deep-lying position show promise in this area.  In much the same way that his fouls/yellow cards suggest that he is not, by trade, a naturally defensive player.  This might suggest that Lucas has yet to find (or have found for him) his natural position.  Benitez preferred him in a ‘support’ holding role alongside Mascherano. While Hodgson – having already entrusted him with the captaincy a number of times in pre-season, ahead of senior players – may well prefer him in a role with more responsibility; somewhere further up-field, where he can demonstrate his passing and technique more.  Perhaps from here, in a more settle team, now that the transfer window has closed a few more outstanding performances may finally win over any remaining doubters.

Decent write up that ...free of any bias either way

Yep decent write for a blind man!!! just shows you how stats could be misleading ,But we all the numbers in the world are no match to healty pair or single eye of a football fan. We all saw that out of those 85% accurate passes are 5 feet passes ,passes which contribute nothing to the game other then making contact with the ball . We all can see his limited technical skills and speed and strength ,come on!! he isn't a young prospect anymore coming out of the youth system and god knows he got all the chances in the world to show some talent. The boy man already lost the battle time to move one and walk on ,to another club.

[bigmick]

He isn't good enough I'm afraid. I'd have no qualms about playing him if we had an injury crisis, but as a starter it doesn't matter which set of stats you choose to use to back up your case, he isn't good enough.

He's not terrible and he's not sh!t, but he isn't that good either. It says it all that West Ham weren't even up for taking him. No surpirses there as Scotty Parker is three times the player.

[Penguins]

Isn't good enough, never going to be good enough.

Delighted he will spend most of the time on the bench, too bad we couldn't get rid this summer.

He isn't even a defensive midfielder or a ballwinner, yet scores maybe 1 goal/season. Makes me cringe 

And still many supporters are all over him cause he can make 2 yards sideway passes all game long.

[damjan193]

In my oppinion the guy sucks... not too bad but he aint good enough for a starter. But that's just my oppinion.... and the oppinion of about 90% of Liverpool fans. I know what I see in Lucas while he plays and I dont like it, no stats can tell me different. The guy can keep his stats to himself, we are not idiots we understand football and we know what we see.

[Thommo's perm]

I really feel bad because he seems like a great lad
Hes just not good enough if we want to win things. If we dont, he is.

[JBG]

Lucas is way out of his depth at Liverpool and will be gone by next summer if Woy is still in charge.

He was played out of position by Rafa (he was an attacking, not defensive, midfielder in Brazil) but truth be told he's not up to it.

Theres talk of him going to a modest Seria A/La Liga side like Palermo or Zaragoza, and thats more his level.

He's not a bad player as such: he's neat and tidy on the ball but his fundamental problem is that he cannot/does not get on the ball enough. I think its as simple as that.

[Fauxy]

Lucas is way out of his depth at Liverpool and will be gone by next summer if Woy is still in charge.

He was played out of position by Rafa (he was an attacking, not defensive, midfielder in Brazil) but truth be told he's not up to it.

Theres talk of him going to a modest Seria A/La Liga side like Palermo or Zaragoza, and thats more his level.

He's not a bad player as such: he's neat and tidy on the ball but his fundamental problem is that he cannot/does not get on the ball enough. I think its as simple as that.

Yeah I agree with that, especially the last bit.

His biggest problem in my opinion is that he has very poor positioning. If he made himself some space sometimes and got himself into useful places he could get involved in the game a lot more.

[Rockthekop]

If Lucas was good enough, he would have shown even a glimpse of something by now. 

He hasn't got the X factor

Why hasn't Rafa come back for his golden boy? Yup that's right, not good enough.

[maypaxvobiscum]

words cannot described how useless he is.

[bigmick]

He was properly terrible today, absolutely mind poppingly awful. Some people think he had a good game though

[maypaxvobiscum]

He was properly terrible today, absolutely mind poppingly awful. Some people think he had a good game though

they should keep their deluded thoughts to themselves if thats the case.

[Benny The Noon]

Maybe the above poster should realise this is a forum and people are fully entitled to their opinion and are fully entitled to voice said opinion .