Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

you've lost me...?

everyone around me was slating him. thats the 100 or so people in immediate earshot.

i stated that there is no bias in my mate's opinion. (and only my mates opinion)

point i was getting at...some lfc fans, as proven on here, will slate lucas no matter what, based on 2 years of being sh.i.t
some people, as proven on here, are blind to the fact he is s.hi.t, because he wears a lfc shirt.

my mate, never seen him play before, was shocked at how s.hi.t lucas was...there is no pre-conceved opinion there.  he thinks he is s.hi.t based  on last nights performance.

yet many on here are saying he had a good game....

Maybe your mates where watching a totally different game 

I seemed to have gained a few "mates" all of a sudden.

Im afraid i can't claim to have been "mates" with all the people sitting around me.  Just the one mate i took to the game i'm afraid.

If having a different view to you means they were all watching a different game...then i guess the must have.

for what reasons did he give for lucas being sh.it judging him from last nights game ? who did he use for comparison or was it just the party line of - he is sh.it

where abouts is the pub ? country wise ?

[kawaton]

you've lost me...?

everyone around me was slating him. thats the 100 or so people in immediate earshot.

i stated that there is no bias in my mate's opinion. (and only my mates opinion)

point i was getting at...some lfc fans, as proven on here, will slate lucas no matter what, based on 2 years of being sh.i.t
some people, as proven on here, are blind to the fact he is s.hi.t, because he wears a lfc shirt.

my mate, never seen him play before, was shocked at how s.hi.t lucas was...there is no pre-conceved opinion there.  he thinks he is s.hi.t based  on last nights performance.

yet many on here are saying he had a good game....

Maybe your mates where watching a totally different game 

I seemed to have gained a few "mates" all of a sudden.

Im afraid i can't claim to have been "mates" with all the people sitting around me.  Just the one mate i took to the game i'm afraid.

If having a different view to you means they were all watching a different game...then i guess the must have.

for what reasons did he give for lucas being sh.it judging him from last nights game ? who did he use for comparison or was it just the party line of - he is sh.it

where abouts is the pub ? country wise ?

I wasn't in the pub, i was at the match.

His comments started off like....

That was a s.hi.t pass.....
what the f.uc.k was that.......
etc etc etc

Then after the game it was...that lucas really is s.hi.t...

My personal opinion isnt the same as im a lfc fan and have more red-tinted glasses...but coming from a non lfc fan lucas' performance raised comments from him.

as DrPepe says though, he's non-biased opinion could of been influence by the crowd around us in the stadium....but that would point to more people having a similar view and thus a large section of the game were watching a different game to you

[GYBS]

Ok cheers mate - as you said a lot of people were giving him stick before the match even started (which is pretty sad as well to hear) so had pre judge remarks about him already - i honestly couldnt see any major problem with his game last night - thought he had a pretty good game . I must ask where the same comments aimed towards gerrard with his numerous mis placed passes he made last night ?

[account deleted by request]

Yes but Lucas isn't Gerrard so can't be criticised, I believe I pointed out that some players are above criticism at times while others are soft targets.

S@int - do you have that for all the players last night? Would be interesting to compare say Torres with Kuyt, Benayoun with Riera, Insua with Johnson and Carra with Skrtel.

EDIT - and both keepers if possible 

LINK TO STATS

Just scroll down to the bottom after picking who you want to compare at the top.

[kawaton]

Ok cheers mate - as you said a lot of people were giving him stick before the match even started (which is pretty sad as well to hear) so had pre judge remarks about him already - i honestly couldnt see any major problem with his game last night - thought he had a pretty good game . I must ask where the same comments aimed towards gerrard with his numerous mis placed passes he made last night ?

Your right, it is sad to hear people groan. 
You should always get behind the players no matter what.  and i mean no matter what...at least while they wear a lfc shirt.  knocking a players confidence doesnt help us, the team or them.

I certainly don't think he was the best player out there last night.
Kuyt, Insua, reina, Yossi, all had better games in my opinion.
But he wasnt the worst..(i.e the rest)

In my mates defense he said that Gerrard had a shocker....but he knows how Gerrard can play....he doesn't know how Lucas can play.....but then neither do we...we just hope.

[GYBS]

Insua ?!?! really ?? thought he has a shocker - gave the ball away on numerous occasions - crossing was shocking as well - will agree on kuyt pepe and yossi thou . for me those three plus lucas were our best players last night

[kawaton]

Maybe first half, but second half i was closely watching him....as he was closest player to where i was sitting.  i felt he had a good game tbh

[GYBS]

yeah he seemed to improve a little second half but first half he was shocking from what i saw

[bigmick]

This thing about people "pre-judging" Lucas cuts both ways to be fair and is therefore a bit of a red herring. Against Aston Villa, he was anonymous and buried a header into his own net from 14 yards and some people still said he "had a decent game". This was despite the fact the central midfield area was completely disfunctional and he was lost.

It was exactly the same thing with Kuyt for long spells particularly when we persevered with him as a striker. He would be absolutely awful in games, embarrassingly bad on occasions and people would "stick up for him" by denying the painfully obvious, and say that he'd actually done quite well. Now, when his performances bare absolutely no resemblence to those dark days (when to be honest he was so bad I felt sorry for him on occasions) they claim they were right all along. Many people often get accused of "changing their tune" about Kuyt but I don't get that. He was playing terribly badly and in patches since then he's played very well. Overall, his contribution on a general level is 200% over and above what it was in the dark days, so he's changed his tune nobody else.

Some people on here were saying two or three weeks ago that Lucas was totally unsuited for the role he was being asked to perform, one or two even said it before the season even started. They wouldn't have it though, although in fairness now it's been graphically demonstrated pretty much everyone seems to accept it. These "pre-conceptions" and "pre-judging" work in many ways, that's for sure.

[Owzat]

Yes but Lucas isn't Gerrard so can't be criticised, I believe I pointed out that some players are above criticism at times while others are soft targets.

S@int - do you have that for all the players last night? Would be interesting to compare say Torres with Kuyt, Benayoun with Riera, Insua with Johnson and Carra with Skrtel.

EDIT - and both keepers if possible 

LINK TO STATS

Just scroll down to the bottom after picking who you want to compare at the top.

Cheers.

So here we go

Saves : Reina 3-5 Poleksic
High Claims : Reina 1-0 Poleksic
Ball Recovery : Reina 9-5 Poleksic

Balls Won : Carra 2-3 Skrtel
Passes : Carra 74-72 Skrtel
Pass Accuracy (%) : Carra 81-89 Skrtel

Goals : Kuyt 1-0 Torres
Shots : Kuyt 3-5 Torres
Passes : Kuyt 46-17 Torres
Pass Accuracy (%) : Kuyt 76-94 Torres
Assist Attempts : Kuyt 3-1 Torres

Shots : Yossi 2-4 Riera
Passes : Yossi 37-35 Riera
Pass Accuracy (%) Yossi 81-89 Riera
Assist Attempts : Yossi 3-3 Riera

Passes : Insua 47-52 Johnson
Pass Accuracy (%) Insua 87-69 Johnson
Assist Attempts : Insua 1-1 Johnson
Balls Won : Insua 1-2 Johnson

How many of those would people have predicted? Generally I get the feeling people thought Insua had a stinker, but then 14 of his passes were to Carra and 13 to Riera while 10 of Johnson's were to Skrtel and 8 to Yossi. Funny how neither really found the CM inside of them much, Insua passed to Gerrard or Lucas eight times, Johnson just seven times. I guess we pick up more on the negatives when watching than the positives, erroneous passes sticking in the mind like a poor infield pass giving away possession than the fact that most passes actually found their target. If nothing memorable from a positive perspective is done by a player then we remember and rate based on the negatives.

[Owzat]

And from Real Madrid game

Xabi Alonso

0 goals/shots
74 passes (92% accuracy)
3 assist attempts
5 balls won

Compare that to Lucas/Gerrard, no shots is not entirely unexpected and not much of a problem within a side like Real Madrid, but as many assist attempts as Lucas and Gerrard combined and higher accuracy of passing while only one pass less than Lucas - although it seems he was loathe to pass to a well-known diving colleague! (5/74)

[Nando26]

And from Real Madrid game

Xabi Alonso

0 goals/shots
74 passes (92% accuracy)
3 assist attempts
5 balls won

Compare that to Lucas/Gerrard, no shots is not entirely unexpected and not much of a problem within a side like Real Madrid, but as many assist attempts as Lucas and Gerrard combined and higher accuracy of passing while only one pass less than Lucas - although it seems he was loathe to pass to a well-known diving colleague! (5/74)

why you bringing up alonsos stats for real madrid?

[Owzat]

And from Real Madrid game

Xabi Alonso

0 goals/shots
74 passes (92% accuracy)
3 assist attempts
5 balls won

Compare that to Lucas/Gerrard, no shots is not entirely unexpected and not much of a problem within a side like Real Madrid, but as many assist attempts as Lucas and Gerrard combined and higher accuracy of passing while only one pass less than Lucas - although it seems he was loathe to pass to a well-known diving colleague! (5/74)

why you bringing up alonsos stats for real madrid?

Because he is an ex-Liverpool player, considered a pivotal player for us by some fans and it is interesting to compare his passing stats with our current midfield

I can do what I want as long as it doesn't contravene forum rules. Why do you feel you have to challenge the way people post or what they post?! Don't bother answering, it is a rhetorical question and I don't care. It's food for thought for you to consider why one person feels they should try and control what others say or do.

[Ben Patrick]

And from Real Madrid game

Xabi Alonso

0 goals/shots
74 passes (92% accuracy)
3 assist attempts
5 balls won

Compare that to Lucas/Gerrard, no shots is not entirely unexpected and not much of a problem within a side like Real Madrid, but as many assist attempts as Lucas and Gerrard combined and higher accuracy of passing while only one pass less than Lucas - although it seems he was loathe to pass to a well-known diving colleague! (5/74)

why you bringing up alonsos stats for real madrid?

Why do you spend all your time on here nit picking and generally posting rubbish ?

It actually is interesting to see how Alonso's stats compare to our current midfielders especially as Lucas is going to be compared to Xabi by everyone all season.

[Sabre]

Because he is an ex-Liverpool player, considered a pivotal player for us by some fans and it is interesting to compare his passing stats with our current midfield

Your numbers do not grasp well the fact that Alonso in the last season here he had more attacking freedom than the one he has in Real Madrid, in which he's covering the backs of the Kakas and Ronaldos. Probably we'll see a sitting in the pocket Xabi in Real Madrid. They signed him for that.

My point Owzat is that numbers have to be, as we've discussed often, handled with care to make points about our club.