Liverpool FC Forum

[Igor Zidane]

Just to break this little lovefest up abit , i think your both right(leon and saint that is) and we should both sack and keep rafa aswell and hug are owners as they have provided us with lovely players (and debt to boot) we also have a really nice picture of or new stadium ,which cost $10 million to design (NICE).

Look if we are being honest here ,there have been rumblings or undertones of discontent about rafa's management all season (amongst the serious and hardcore fans even)  I think it's abit unfair to be judging him in the current climate. If we get new owners and they back him properly and he's allowed to compete in the transfer market for the top players consistantly ,then i think it would be fair . I thought we had a better squad last season and we should have done better in the league . If you look at the players rafa has bought with proper money (last season only ) i think it's fair to say that they were on the whole pretty successful ,NO?.

So if and only if he is backed the same way this year and the next and the next ,will we seriously challenge for the title.

By the way sorry for the somewhat silly start to this post ,but i'm pretty p!ssed off with the whole shenannigans at the mo.

[Leonmc0708]

in reality with the team we have we performed abysmally for much of the season.

Read that again and then think about what it says.

I know what it says, the problem seems to be you can't or won't understand what it says!

We had a good enough team to challenge for the title, but due to being handicapped by off field decisions we didn't perform well, in fact we performed abysmally for much of the season.

How many of our players played to their best level ? How many games did we struggle to beat teams we should have walked all over. How many of our performances were of such a poor standard? Off the top of my head I can name Besiktas, Marseille, Luton, Barnsley, Mancs, Wigan, Birmingham, Middlesbro', Reading, Derby (even though we won)Spurs.

Now read it again and THINK about it!

Any clearer?

Quatify much by placing it next to the figure you feel it most represents:

10%
20%
30%
40%
50%
60%
70%
80%
90%
100%

I don't need to quantify how much all I need say is ENOUGH.

You do need to quantify it - or retract it mate.

Quantify much and abysmally cus as far as I am concerned that is wholly inacccurate.

No chance, if you need it quantifying, go through the results for last season, then remember the games where we played terrible, I have already given you a head start, then work out the percentages yourself.

badly only in a handful of games at most.

Abysmall not in any.

We played poorly in some, but for fuc.ks sake lad the holocaust was terrible and Robert Maguabe's regieme is a bysmall, we had an evewr so slightly above average season.

So now we are argueing about semantics?
a·bys·mal 
adj.   
Resembling an abyss in depth; unfathomable.
Very profound; limitless: abysmal misery.
Very bad: an abysmal performance. 

Result.

so now define much as in much of the season.

[66-1112520797]

Well I suppose its nice to see a bit of passion from the 'bury your head in the sand brigade'.

Remember the title of this thread ? S@int is merely saying if we do not challenge for the title next season Rafa needs to go. To be fair to S@int I have to agree with him to, this will be his fith season at the club and if the Spainard isnt capable of running the Mancs and Chelsea closer to the wire there is something wrong with his methods IMO.

Yes we dont have the money United and Chelsea do, which makes it even harder to win the league, but using that as an excuse to roll over and die is a bit wimperish really. I'd hate to be stuck in the trenches with some of you's lot, 'they have better weapons and bigger tanks than us, lets surrender'. Its the talk of weak people and its seems many Liverpool supporters have become used to this, which in its own way is very sad.

Last season the title to begin with was an open book race, anyone of four teams could of won the league from the start of the season. We finnished 11 points off, 11 points ! four wins and we'd of been right up there. We wasnt that far off TBH but that doesnt mean its a title challenge, as we were still worrying about Everton catching us than, catching the Mancs .  The reason we was left out of sight is because we has an "abysmal" first half of the season. Blame Hicks and Gillette for that bliiiiiiiiiiiip all you want, if thats the case though equally we have to hand it to the Americans for our last two months rich vein of form. Of course no more did they effect our form coming into the end of the season than they did in the beginng, its any easy excuse and of course they're an easy target to blame when the manager was failling on the pitch. During a period of which he still didnt know what his best team was, and eventually stumbling (or trying) the formation that changed the teams luck and fortune, credit wher that was due.

But at the end of the day, we're talking about a simple game of football. Yet again we failed simply on the PITCH more than anything else to become title challenegers.
I think the mere fact that most realistic Liverpool fans here today just want to be "title challengers" is a massive enough statement in itself to see just how football has changed. Not like 20 years ago when Liverpool fans could hope or realistically expect Liverpool FC to win the league.

[account deleted by request]

1. To a great degree or extent: much smarter.
2. Just about; almost: much the same.
3. Frequently; often: doesn't get out much.

So I am saying we played very badly frequently. I have named 11 games off the top of my head where I think that applies.

Now having answered your questions, why not try answering mine?

[Sabre]

Bamaga

Yes we dont have the money United and Chelsea do, which makes it even harder to win the league, but using that as an excuse to roll over and die is a bit wimperish really. I'd hate to be stuck in the trenches with some of you's lot, 'they have better weapons and bigger tanks than us, lets surrender'. Its the talk of weak people and its seems many Liverpool supporters have become used to this, which in its own way is very sad.

You have seen too many times the Rambo films.

Only woof and daxy1 if I recall correctly, are allowed to talk about trenches with some credibility here.

It's not weak, it's just that it's already too frustrating and dissapointing the season, that you do not want to make it worse by adding fights between reds into the equation. So no need to say we're burying.

[johnymarcu]

RAFA FOREVER!!!!

[Sabre]

RAFA FOREVER!!!!

See?

Well said, lad. 

[66-1112520797]

It's not weak, it's just that it's already too frustrating and dissapointing the season, that you do not want to make it worse by adding fights between reds into the equation. So no need to say we're burying.

I'll agree with this Sabre .....

It's  weak, it's just that it's already too frustrating and dissapointing the season, that you do not want to make it worse by adding fights between reds into the equation. So no need to say we're burying.

[Sabre]

Ok, forget about the first two lines, apologises, what do I know about people's real life? almost nothing. The point was that the analogy wasn't the best.

For what is worth, at some point even the most happy clappy admitted that should the season was disappointing, serious questions should be asked.

And that's what some mates here are doing, asking serious questions about Rafa. And that's fair enough, btw.

My self, I still think he deserves to end his contract. And, at the end of it, if we haven't won the league or been second and close to winning it, if we're not convinced that this will bring the league, then yes, out there there are lot of good managers, and there will be new brilliant managers still to be known.

But, I honestly think Rafa is the man mate. And I tell you this just after he has sold my love Alonso. 

[66-1112520797]

And I tell you this just after he has sold my love Alonso.

[Sabre]

And I tell you this just after he has sold my love Alonso.

Those were your words a long ago when I talked about his game , more or less!!

I'm sure you thought that as soon Rafa sold him I'd join the anti Rafa brigade 

But then each fan is different. I give him time because I see progress and what some mates call excuses, I call them reasons and obstacles. It's ok to think different.

[Number 9]

Ok, forget about the first two lines, apologises, what do I know about people's real life? almost nothing. The point was that the analogy wasn't the best.

For what is worth, at some point even the most happy clappy admitted that should the season was disappointing, serious questions should be asked.

And that's what some mates here are doing, asking serious questions about Rafa. And that's fair enough, btw.

My self, I still think he deserves to end his contract. And, at the end of it, if we haven't won the league or been second and close to winning it, if we're not convinced that this will bring the league, then yes, out there there are lot of good managers, and there will be new brilliant managers still to be known.

But, I honestly think Rafa is the man mate. And I tell you this just after he has sold my love Alonso. 

Relax lad!!

The same posters that call for Rafas head are the same ones that will love him if he wins us the League or the C/L!
Some folk just like a moan.

As for the Saints Man utd injury table thing?
WTF was that all about and what was that meant to prove??
Every fuc'king thread ya go into its fuc'king people wa,nking over Fergie and Man UTD!!

Im starting to wonder if their "Glory" is drawing a few to the dark side!

[Leonmc0708]

1. To a great degree or extent: much smarter.
2. Just about; almost: much the same.
3. Frequently; often: doesn't get out much.

So I am saying we played very badly frequently. I have named 11 games off the top of my head where I think that applies.

Now having answered your questions, why not try answering mine?

What where your questions ?

[account deleted by request]

How many of our players played to their best level ?

How many games did we struggle to beat teams we should have walked all over

How many of our performances were of such a poor standard?

Whats the point in assembling a team of world class talent if every season you handicap them by the decisions that you make so that we are still waiting for a title challenge

And the main one - Rafa's last chance? If you think that we SHOULD challenge next season, why not agree that if we don't he should go? Or have you such a low opinion of the Liverpool team that you don't think we are good enough to challenge?

[Leonmc0708]

How many of our players played to their best level ?

When ? If you mean all of last season, none of them, even Torres had off games. At times a few of them played to an excellent level - and as a team we looked really good, at times we looked like we did not know each other. Equally I think Steven and Nando can still improve, as can most others. Sadly a few have no improvement in them, and its these ones that need to go.

How many games did we struggle to beat teams we should have walked all over

Its football though mate not the Harlem Gliobetrotters, if all games went to form would Barnsely have knocked us AND Chelsea out of the FA Cup ? Would United have lost to Bolton, Man City (twice) and Coventry ??

A few games we proved that we where a couple of top notch players more short in.

How many of our performances were of such a poor standard?

Such a poor standard as what mate ?

Poor games this season for me - Beskitas away, United away, Reading away, Marsielle home, Luton away, West Ham away and thats it for me.

Whats the point in assembling a team of world class talent if every season you handicap them by the decisions that you make so that we are still waiting for a title challenge?

A team of World class talent is a bit much, there is some in htere but some defo not good enough, however I am not sure what the decisions are you are on about mate. Its a managers job to pick the team, he lives and dies by it. Are you saying he cant pick or moticvate a team ? If so then fair enough, but I must say that its more to do with not having enough quality in the first place.

On the title challenge, you need to understand that for all the money a man spends, if the nearest competitors are spending at a similar rate then its going to be more difficult to catch up and overtake, and as such will take time and some really good purchases.

And the main one - Rafa's last chance? If you think that we SHOULD challenge next season, why not agree that if we don't he should go?

Cus I have seen enough to see that he will do it. I have seen in the young players brought in, the players in the first team, the money made from player sales and the brief glimpses of when it clicked that its being built. We have lost a few games, and you for one would not be arguing the same point (ie we never challenged) if we'd have scored four or five more goals in certain games. Then we would have challenged.

Or have you such a low opinion of the Liverpool team that you don't think we are good enough to challenge?

I have such a low opinion ? Mate; Liverpool football club makes my world go round, and I have the highest opinion of the side/squad and players and staff (too much at times some would argue) but I am also realistic. I can accept that its not instant, it wont happen right now and it will include many many downs on the way. But thats why we love it so much is it not ?