Liverpool FC Forum

[Elchris]

doesnt rate sissoko and agger....but pennant wtf

[Bad Bob]

Bob. My gripe is clear with Agger. Its not that I don't rate him. Its that I don't rate him... wait for it... As highly as others do. To many people have seen the lad play one or two decent games and made him to be something he's not. People see it as I'm slating him now and those same people will be giving it loads when I defend him next season when he gets found out.

The lad isn't as good as Hyypia and there are better out there who will improve the team as a whole. Carragher although not the best, is irrecplacable in the fact of what he does for the fans and the club as a whole. He represents the fans on the pitch and you see that in his performances. I just don't like people overhyping players and I can't stand idiots with red tinted specs. The Evertonians say "Kopites are " and on the most part I agree. Its embarrassing listening to people telling everyone how great such and such is and we have the new Vieira and we're the best team ever.

The simple fact is if Liverpool had Vieira instead of Sissoko we'd be pretty much unstoppable he's that good.


Woodgate would not cost the earth and as I said is for me the second best centre half in the league. To be fair theres not much in it between Toure, Gallas, Ferdinand and Woodgate.

2. I would be inclined to agree with.

3. The problem with Pennant has clearly been confidence. He's shown as you say flashes of absoloute class. The run for Fowlers goal against Galatasary, the through ball for Fowler against Reading, the cross for Bellamy's goal after the run against Newcastle, the cross against Villa at the weekend which Fowler attacks... Hang on a minute... Hmmm.... Maybe Pennant's not that bad, maybe like he's an odd peice of the jigsaw due to the strikers being completely the wrong kind of strikers to get the best out of him... Pennant delivers some excellent crosses and the lack of people (especially strikers) attacking them at times is criminal. Essentially do I think he's an out an out match winner... No i don't. Do I think I overated him slightly? Yes I do, as in his own half he can be sloppy. Something which I hadn't previously noticed. Do I think he's good enough for this club as a minimum as a squad player? Definately without a doubt.

Lets face it, If its not a game for him, theres always Luis Garcia or the Gerrard on the right option.

On the left its clear. Kewell's class. We need someone as good if not better. But he's a crock. Simple as and Gonzalez is an awful player.

The fact is this summer has to be an improvement of last season. I firmly believe if you could put the Liverpool of last season against the Liverpool of this season, last seasons team would give them a pasting and a bit of a lesson.

Last season I saw a quality side with serious potential given the right buys. This season I've seen us drop at least one level and at times look gutless and seriously lacking in idea's, spark and inspiration.

I agree with you that some people have gone a little OTT with Agger.  I think it's forgiveable, though, in that he's slotted in well and we've still kept our solidity at the back.  Everyone loves a young prospect (hence the Sissoko praise last year) so it's bound to happen that the Agger hype gets a little ahead of the lad himself.  Personally, I'm of the opinion that we'd have been just as solid at the back with Sami this season and that's not a swipe at Agger.  That's to say that I don't think Hyypia's past it yet.  Rafa, however, seems to think so and so I expect Sami will go the way of Didi next season or the season after (as will Robbie for that matter).  As such, a move for Woodgate would be a good bit of business but it's something I don't expect Rafa to prioritize.

As for Pennant, you may have a point when you suggest that more predatory strikers will make more of his crosses.  I think the lad does have talent and I'd be made up if he comes good for us.  At the moment, though, I don't consider him dependable enough to be nailed on at RM for the big matches and that's what I think we need: a specialist RM (ie not Gerrard) that you'd want in your team against the likes of Man U, Chelsea and Barcelona.  Having said that, I think Pennant should certainly be getting a game against all sides mid-table and below.  To move Gerrard over to the right against the likes of Villa just seems unnecessary since Pennant does have enough quality to cause those kinds of teams trouble.  So, bottom line: I think we need to bring in someone on the right and have Pennant as back up.  Gerrard or Garcia should only play there in a pinch next season.

We're agreed on the left: if Kewell's not up for it (hell, even if he is) we need a top quality replacement--end of.

I agree with you that we've taken a step backwards this year.  Perhaps the new arrivals have muddied the waters too much.  We had to play Gerrard on the right a lot last year.  He accepted that and was affective.  This year, with Pennant in the side, it seems harder to justify playing Gerrard out there in certain games (especially with Sissoko struggling).  To be fair, the Kewell injury was always going to through a spanner into the works at LM (and the Garcia injury hasn't helped either).  But, an indecisiveness over who should fill that void (and a series of niggling injuries to Gonzales and Aurelio, it must be said) has led to some bizarre selections at LM. 

Up top, Rafa seems commited to playing Kuyt come hell or high water and Bellamy's been a consistent choice since the court settlement.  This has prevented Crouch and Fowler from getting a true crack of the whip this season, despite Crouch's purple patch at the start of the campaign and despite Fowler's impeccable goals to minutes ratio.  Last year Crouch and especially Fowler were doing all the heavy lifting by this point in the season: Cisse was clearly not rated by Rafa and Morientes was a shadow of his former/current self.  Yet, when we need goals now, Rafa persists with two strikers who are not exactly banging them in for fun.  It's all a bit of a mess, frankly.

Having said all that, I'm hopeful that Rafa will really go after the top class players we need this summer now that the spending shackles are largely off.  We'll certainly know soon enough whether some of his purchases were made out of expediency rather than true desire for the players signed.

[66-1112520797]

3. The problem with Pennant has clearly been confidence. He's shown as you say flashes of absoloute class. The run for Fowlers goal against Galatasary, the through ball for Fowler against Reading, the cross for Bellamy's goal after the run against Newcastle, the cross against Villa at the weekend which Fowler attacks... Hang on a minute... Hmmm.... Maybe Pennant's not that bad, maybe like he's an odd peice of the jigsaw due to the strikers being completely the wrong kind of strikers to get the best out of him... Pennant delivers some excellent crosses and the lack of people (especially strikers) attacking them at times is criminal. Essentially do I think he's an out an out match winner... No i don't. Do I think I overated him slightly? Yes I do, as in his own half he can be sloppy. Something which I hadn't previously noticed. Do I think he's good enough for this club as a minimum as a squad player? Definately without a doubt

Overated him   You virtually creamed yourself on here all last year, telling us he's better than Joaquin, SwP etc. He has been dissapointing IMO I expected a little more from him though but you ..... kin hell. Egg on yer face, next time you start dishing out your no it all attitude to fellow fans of this club, just think for a moment that they can disagree with you as your not always right.
As for his crosses, I believe you got caught up in the "most crosses from a winger" stat the year before when he was at Birmingham. One thing you finnally seem to be right on is, that he will only be a squad player and back up to anything new brought in over the summer (if someone new is brought in ?).
I think we've all seen this year that Pennant has lived up to a minimal expectation and had the chance to grab the RM place with both hands, but lets face it he wasnt good enough.

As for Woodgate is this another one of your great visions that you firmly believe can do a job like Pennant ?
Good player, but never in a millioon years would I approach something that injury prone ( Iare you trying to be a touch controversial here ? I think so ) Why would we need him also ?
Our defence have e been superb this season, I thought more holes would appear in it when Sami got shifted out the side. This hasnt been Agger and Carragher have been great, but I do agree with you that Agger has been overhyped slightly. But I also believe he'll get better with experiance in that position as most players do being a centre-half. You cant sit their and laugh and say that old chestnut you use ' if a player hasnt got the ability now he never will have'. Agger has got the ability, he'll get stronger I'm sure, he'll reag the game as well eventually. He'll learn to get his head on the ball more when needed. Those things can and will come with experiance especially playimg alonside Carra. To me no improvement is needed at the back well centrally anyway, as I said at the start of the season I was a little ancious that Rafa would break up a steady partnership in Sami/Carra I really was, but as I look back their was really no need for me to worry. Sami IMO will be here next year doing the same as this, coming in from time to time we also have Arbelo ? who can play CH, aswell as Palleta who still has a lot to learn. I think we're okay in that area, cover for Finnan is needed, and many people think Riise time has come to an end. He hasnt had the best of seasons granted but is still a usefull honest player who I'd give the nod everytime over a player like Pennant.

All the other areas are obvious to everyone, of course you probably wont agree with the majority, but hey thats life and your not always right   I also believe though that Rafa has to adopt a slightly different approach to to going forward and playing at teams in the PREM. Someone said the other day how they remembered Aimar camped on the edge of our box and subjecting in us to somke devastating football. Well we dont have Aimar and we dont play devastating football in the final third. Somebody also posted up some stats from Rafa's time at Valencia a goals for stat, and let me tell you it was pretty clear back then that his methology of scoring goals wasnt exactly working, it was a pretty low count. Its my opinion that Rafa has to DO something else in training to be more creative, I know it sounds simple and vague but I'd like to see the old fashioned 4-4-2 way of when Rush played upfront scoring the goals, clever movenment, one touch football with Beardsley and Barnes playing off of him.   Sorry to sound an old romantic in football but that was and still should be the way to play decent attacking football.

[76-1174245250]

3. The problem with Pennant has clearly been confidence. He's shown as you say flashes of absoloute class. The run for Fowlers goal against Galatasary, the through ball for Fowler against Reading, the cross for Bellamy's goal after the run against Newcastle, the cross against Villa at the weekend which Fowler attacks... Hang on a minute... Hmmm.... Maybe Pennant's not that bad, maybe like he's an odd peice of the jigsaw due to the strikers being completely the wrong kind of strikers to get the best out of him... Pennant delivers some excellent crosses and the lack of people (especially strikers) attacking them at times is criminal. Essentially do I think he's an out an out match winner... No i don't. Do I think I overated him slightly? Yes I do, as in his own half he can be sloppy. Something which I hadn't previously noticed. Do I think he's good enough for this club as a minimum as a squad player? Definately without a doubt

Overated him   You virtually creamed yourself on here all last year, telling us he's better than Joaquin, SwP etc. He has been dissapointing IMO I expected a little more from him though but you ..... kin hell. Egg on yer face, next time you start dishing out your no it all attitude to fellow fans of this club, just think for a moment that they can disagree with you as your not always right.
As for his crosses, I believe you got caught up in the "most crosses from a winger" stat the year before when he was at Birmingham. One thing you finnally seem to be right on is, that he will only be a squad player and back up to anything new brought in over the summer (if someone new is brought in ?).
I think we've all seen this year that Pennant has lived up to a minimal expectation and had the chance to grab the RM place with both hands, but lets face it he wasnt good enough.

As for Woodgate is this another one of your great visions that you firmly believe can do a job like Pennant ?
Good player, but never in a millioon years would I approach something that injury prone ( Iare you trying to be a touch controversial here ? I think so ) Why would we need him also ?
Our defence have e been superb this season, I thought more holes would appear in it when Sami got shifted out the side. This hasnt been Agger and Carragher have been great, but I do agree with you that Agger has been overhyped slightly. But I also believe he'll get better with experiance in that position as most players do being a centre-half. You cant sit their and laugh and say that old chestnut you use ' if a player hasnt got the ability now he never will have'. Agger has got the ability, he'll get stronger I'm sure, he'll reag the game as well eventually. He'll learn to get his head on the ball more when needed. Those things can and will come with experiance especially playimg alonside Carra. To me no improvement is needed at the back well centrally anyway, as I said at the start of the season I was a little ancious that Rafa would break up a steady partnership in Sami/Carra I really was, but as I look back their was really no need for me to worry. Sami IMO will be here next year doing the same as this, coming in from time to time we also have Arbelo ? who can play CH, aswell as Palleta who still has a lot to learn. I think we're okay in that area, cover for Finnan is needed, and many people think Riise time has come to an end. He hasnt had the best of seasons granted but is still a usefull honest player who I'd give the nod everytime over a player like Pennant.

All the other areas are obvious to everyone, of course you probably wont agree with the majority, but hey thats life and your not always right   I also believe though that Rafa has to adopt a slightly different approach to to going forward and playing at teams in the PREM. Someone said the other day how they remembered Aimar camped on the edge of our box and subjecting in us to somke devastating football. Well we dont have Aimar and we dont play devastating football in the final third. Somebody also posted up some stats from Rafa's time at Valencia a goals for stat, and let me tell you it was pretty clear back then that his methology of scoring goals wasnt exactly working, it was a pretty low count. Its my opinion that Rafa has to DO something else in training to be more creative, I know it sounds simple and vague but I'd like to see the old fashioned 4-4-2 way of when Rush played upfront scoring the goals, clever movenment, one touch football with Beardsley and Barnes playing off of him.   Sorry to sound an old romantic in football but that was and still should be the way to play decent attacking football.

So now the clique hasn't backed you up you have to resort to putting words in my mouth?

Keep it up. Its getting quite funny.

[76-1174245250]

doesnt rate sissoko and agger....but pennant wtf

And who the fuckin' hell are you like?

Another member for the clique there Paul.

[66-1112520797]

3. The problem with Pennant has clearly been confidence. He's shown as you say flashes of absoloute class. The run for Fowlers goal against Galatasary, the through ball for Fowler against Reading, the cross for Bellamy's goal after the run against Newcastle, the cross against Villa at the weekend which Fowler attacks... Hang on a minute... Hmmm.... Maybe Pennant's not that bad, maybe like he's an odd peice of the jigsaw due to the strikers being completely the wrong kind of strikers to get the best out of him... Pennant delivers some excellent crosses and the lack of people (especially strikers) attacking them at times is criminal. Essentially do I think he's an out an out match winner... No i don't. Do I think I overated him slightly? Yes I do, as in his own half he can be sloppy. Something which I hadn't previously noticed. Do I think he's good enough for this club as a minimum as a squad player? Definately without a doubt

Overated him   You virtually creamed yourself on here all last year, telling us he's better than Joaquin, SwP etc. He has been dissapointing IMO I expected a little more from him though but you ..... kin hell. Egg on yer face, next time you start dishing out your no it all attitude to fellow fans of this club, just think for a moment that they can disagree with you as your not always right.
As for his crosses, I believe you got caught up in the "most crosses from a winger" stat the year before when he was at Birmingham. One thing you finnally seem to be right on is, that he will only be a squad player and back up to anything new brought in over the summer (if someone new is brought in ?).
I think we've all seen this year that Pennant has lived up to a minimal expectation and had the chance to grab the RM place with both hands, but lets face it he wasnt good enough.

As for Woodgate is this another one of your great visions that you firmly believe can do a job like Pennant ?
Good player, but never in a millioon years would I approach something that injury prone ( Iare you trying to be a touch controversial here ? I think so ) Why would we need him also ?
Our defence have e been superb this season, I thought more holes would appear in it when Sami got shifted out the side. This hasnt been Agger and Carragher have been great, but I do agree with you that Agger has been overhyped slightly. But I also believe he'll get better with experiance in that position as most players do being a centre-half. You cant sit their and laugh and say that old chestnut you use ' if a player hasnt got the ability now he never will have'. Agger has got the ability, he'll get stronger I'm sure, he'll reag the game as well eventually. He'll learn to get his head on the ball more when needed. Those things can and will come with experiance especially playimg alonside Carra. To me no improvement is needed at the back well centrally anyway, as I said at the start of the season I was a little ancious that Rafa would break up a steady partnership in Sami/Carra I really was, but as I look back their was really no need for me to worry. Sami IMO will be here next year doing the same as this, coming in from time to time we also have Arbelo ? who can play CH, aswell as Palleta who still has a lot to learn. I think we're okay in that area, cover for Finnan is needed, and many people think Riise time has come to an end. He hasnt had the best of seasons granted but is still a usefull honest player who I'd give the nod everytime over a player like Pennant.

All the other areas are obvious to everyone, of course you probably wont agree with the majority, but hey thats life and your not always right   I also believe though that Rafa has to adopt a slightly different approach to to going forward and playing at teams in the PREM. Someone said the other day how they remembered Aimar camped on the edge of our box and subjecting in us to somke devastating football. Well we dont have Aimar and we dont play devastating football in the final third. Somebody also posted up some stats from Rafa's time at Valencia a goals for stat, and let me tell you it was pretty clear back then that his methology of scoring goals wasnt exactly working, it was a pretty low count. Its my opinion that Rafa has to DO something else in training to be more creative, I know it sounds simple and vague but I'd like to see the old fashioned 4-4-2 way of when Rush played upfront scoring the goals, clever movenment, one touch football with Beardsley and Barnes playing off of him.   Sorry to sound an old romantic in football but that was and still should be the way to play decent attacking football.

So now the clique hasn't backed you up you have to resort to putting words in my mouth? 

Keep it up. Its getting quite funny.

Dont need no clique to back me up mate FFS    I'll sort you out myself 

I didnt put words into your mouth where have I done that ? I take it your on about my Pennant bit. I dont need to do that everybody can remember how excited you got over him.

Words in your mouth, these quotes are taken from the horses mouth. 

Pennant is technically excellent also. His touch, passes, crosses and level of skill are absoloutely top class.

The lad has ability to be a top class footballer and is in my opinion easily good enough to play international football. He COULD be a superstar IF he gets his head right and moves to a good club. He can actually still improve though. I genuinely believe if he signed for us he would make himself undroppable and become a firm favourate.

There's no question in my mind that he's better than Wright-Phillips (who isn't a bad player). He probably lacks Wright-Phillips ability to score a goal, vision and his attitude off the pitch (which is important), but alround i reckon he pisses all over the Chelsea player and in the right environment with the right players around him could become frighteningly good.

He goes past players like they aren't even there sometimes and the quality of his final ball isn't that far off what Beckham can produce.

Oh the irony 

This my fellow posters is what you call a prime example of a dickhead not knowing what they are talking about... I rest my case.

Of course this was on the subject of Pennant, someone didnt agree wit stu and this is what they got 

[76-1174245250]

I agree with you that some people have gone a little OTT with Agger.  I think it's forgiveable, though, in that he's slotted in well and we've still kept our solidity at the back.  Everyone loves a young prospect (hence the Sissoko praise last year) so it's bound to happen that the Agger hype gets a little ahead of the lad himself.  Personally, I'm of the opinion that we'd have been just as solid at the back with Sami this season and that's not a swipe at Agger.  That's to say that I don't think Hyypia's past it yet.  Rafa, however, seems to think so and so I expect Sami will go the way of Didi next season or the season after (as will Robbie for that matter).  As such, a move for Woodgate would be a good bit of business but it's something I don't expect Rafa to prioritize.

As for Pennant, you may have a point when you suggest that more predatory strikers will make more of his crosses.  I think the lad does have talent and I'd be made up if he comes good for us.  At the moment, though, I don't consider him dependable enough to be nailed on at RM for the big matches and that's what I think we need: a specialist RM (ie not Gerrard) that you'd want in your team against the likes of Man U, Chelsea and Barcelona.  Having said that, I think Pennant should certainly be getting a game against all sides mid-table and below.  To move Gerrard over to the right against the likes of Villa just seems unnecessary since Pennant does have enough quality to cause those kinds of teams trouble.  So, bottom line: I think we need to bring in someone on the right and have Pennant as back up.  Gerrard or Garcia should only play there in a pinch next season.

We're agreed on the left: if Kewell's not up for it (hell, even if he is) we need a top quality replacement--end of.

I agree with you that we've taken a step backwards this year.  Perhaps the new arrivals have muddied the waters too much.  We had to play Gerrard on the right a lot last year.  He accepted that and was affective.  This year, with Pennant in the side, it seems harder to justify playing Gerrard out there in certain games (especially with Sissoko struggling).  To be fair, the Kewell injury was always going to through a spanner into the works at LM (and the Garcia injury hasn't helped either).  But, an indecisiveness over who should fill that void (and a series of niggling injuries to Gonzales and Aurelio, it must be said) has led to some bizarre selections at LM. 

Up top, Rafa seems commited to playing Kuyt come hell or high water and Bellamy's been a consistent choice since the court settlement.  This has prevented Crouch and Fowler from getting a true crack of the whip this season, despite Crouch's purple patch at the start of the campaign and despite Fowler's impeccable goals to minutes ratio.  Last year Crouch and especially Fowler were doing all the heavy lifting by this point in the season: Cisse was clearly not rated by Rafa and Morientes was a shadow of his former/current self.  Yet, when we need goals now, Rafa persists with two strikers who are not exactly banging them in for fun.  It's all a bit of a mess, frankly.

Having said all that, I'm hopeful that Rafa will really go after the top class players we need this summer now that the spending shackles are largely off.  We'll certainly know soon enough whether some of his purchases were made out of expediency rather than true desire for the players signed.

The problem is that people seem to think all young players are something they aren't because they are young. IE when they improve that or this they will be something they aren't but it quite simply doesn't work like that, never has, never will.

IE they think he'll improve things like stepping out from the back and conceeding possession, his ability to hold his position rather than do what he naturally likes to do and press the ball, his lack of ability to win headers infact, to be honest, in this area he reminds me alot of Traore in this area, they also think he'll become bigger an stronger like Sami, if that happens we have the answer... but it won't. Another one who was going to be world class when he improves such and such. Just like Baros and Traore and Sissoko and all the rest blah blah blah.

With Pennant he can clearly beat a man, clearly whip in some excellent crosses and clearly has a good touch. He can also use the ball fairly well and has decent pace. The problem is the amount of times he does his job or puts a great cross in and theres no-one there attacking it. I've sat there at games this season and seen some blistering crosses go flying into the box and Kuyt stood on the edge of the area and Bellamy standing on the left. Whats that about?

When Fowler and even god forbid Crouch plays, its no conincidence he's set up numorous chances for these two players this season and minimal for Kuyt and Bellamy. At the end of the day only the idiots can't see his quality.

Unfortunately I don't trust Rafa in the transfer market at the moment. We NEED signings of Alonso and Reina's class as a minimum this summer. It will be very interesting to see who's brought in.

[66-1112520797]

He can also use the ball fairly well and has decent pace

Mate thats been one of his biggest downfalls, he doesnt use the ball well. Prime example as he always does this, ' he'll go past a player, then they'll be a defence splitting pass on. Pennant either doesnt see it or thinks he can do it alone. So he'll try and beat the next defender but looses it, with him usually ending up on the deck'. He always runs down a dead end and gets tackled so how he has good use of the ball is beyond me.

[76-1174245250]

3. The problem with Pennant has clearly been confidence. He's shown as you say flashes of absoloute class. The run for Fowlers goal against Galatasary, the through ball for Fowler against Reading, the cross for Bellamy's goal after the run against Newcastle, the cross against Villa at the weekend which Fowler attacks... Hang on a minute... Hmmm.... Maybe Pennant's not that bad, maybe like he's an odd peice of the jigsaw due to the strikers being completely the wrong kind of strikers to get the best out of him... Pennant delivers some excellent crosses and the lack of people (especially strikers) attacking them at times is criminal. Essentially do I think he's an out an out match winner... No i don't. Do I think I overated him slightly? Yes I do, as in his own half he can be sloppy. Something which I hadn't previously noticed. Do I think he's good enough for this club as a minimum as a squad player? Definately without a doubt

Overated him   You virtually creamed yourself on here all last year, telling us he's better than Joaquin, SwP etc. He has been dissapointing IMO I expected a little more from him though but you ..... kin hell. Egg on yer face, next time you start dishing out your no it all attitude to fellow fans of this club, just think for a moment that they can disagree with you as your not always right.
As for his crosses, I believe you got caught up in the "most crosses from a winger" stat the year before when he was at Birmingham. One thing you finnally seem to be right on is, that he will only be a squad player and back up to anything new brought in over the summer (if someone new is brought in ?).
I think we've all seen this year that Pennant has lived up to a minimal expectation and had the chance to grab the RM place with both hands, but lets face it he wasnt good enough.

As for Woodgate is this another one of your great visions that you firmly believe can do a job like Pennant ?
Good player, but never in a millioon years would I approach something that injury prone ( Iare you trying to be a touch controversial here ? I think so ) Why would we need him also ?
Our defence have e been superb this season, I thought more holes would appear in it when Sami got shifted out the side. This hasnt been Agger and Carragher have been great, but I do agree with you that Agger has been overhyped slightly. But I also believe he'll get better with experiance in that position as most players do being a centre-half. You cant sit their and laugh and say that old chestnut you use ' if a player hasnt got the ability now he never will have'. Agger has got the ability, he'll get stronger I'm sure, he'll reag the game as well eventually. He'll learn to get his head on the ball more when needed. Those things can and will come with experiance especially playimg alonside Carra. To me no improvement is needed at the back well centrally anyway, as I said at the start of the season I was a little ancious that Rafa would break up a steady partnership in Sami/Carra I really was, but as I look back their was really no need for me to worry. Sami IMO will be here next year doing the same as this, coming in from time to time we also have Arbelo ? who can play CH, aswell as Palleta who still has a lot to learn. I think we're okay in that area, cover for Finnan is needed, and many people think Riise time has come to an end. He hasnt had the best of seasons granted but is still a usefull honest player who I'd give the nod everytime over a player like Pennant.

All the other areas are obvious to everyone, of course you probably wont agree with the majority, but hey thats life and your not always right   I also believe though that Rafa has to adopt a slightly different approach to to going forward and playing at teams in the PREM. Someone said the other day how they remembered Aimar camped on the edge of our box and subjecting in us to somke devastating football. Well we dont have Aimar and we dont play devastating football in the final third. Somebody also posted up some stats from Rafa's time at Valencia a goals for stat, and let me tell you it was pretty clear back then that his methology of scoring goals wasnt exactly working, it was a pretty low count. Its my opinion that Rafa has to DO something else in training to be more creative, I know it sounds simple and vague but I'd like to see the old fashioned 4-4-2 way of when Rush played upfront scoring the goals, clever movenment, one touch football with Beardsley and Barnes playing off of him.   Sorry to sound an old romantic in football but that was and still should be the way to play decent attacking football.

So now the clique hasn't backed you up you have to resort to putting words in my mouth? 

Keep it up. Its getting quite funny.

Dont need no clique to back me up mate FFS    I'll sort you out myself 

I didnt put words into your mouth where have I done that ? I take it your on about my Pennant bit. I dont need to do that everybody can remember how excited you got over him.

Words in your mouth, these quotes are taken from the horses mouth. 

Pennant is technically excellent also. His touch, passes, crosses and level of skill are absoloutely top class.

The lad has ability to be a top class footballer and is in my opinion easily good enough to play international football. He COULD be a superstar IF he gets his head right and moves to a good club. He can actually still improve though. I genuinely believe if he signed for us he would make himself undroppable and become a firm favourate.

There's no question in my mind that he's better than Wright-Phillips (who isn't a bad player). He probably lacks Wright-Phillips ability to score a goal, vision and his attitude off the pitch (which is important), but alround i reckon he pisses all over the Chelsea player and in the right environment with the right players around him could become frighteningly good.

He goes past players like they aren't even there sometimes and the quality of his final ball isn't that far off what Beckham can produce.

Oh the irony 

This my fellow posters is what you call a prime example of a dickhead not knowing what they are talking about... I rest my case.

Of course this was on the subject of Pennant, someone didnt agree wit stu and this is what they got 

So where exactly did I say he was the best in the world? Where did I say he was better than Joaquin?

Did I mention his mentallity being right? I believe so... Is his mentallity right at the minute? No.

Is he better than Wright-Phillips. Definately.

The only thing he's not shown in what I said is that he's not yet made himself a favourate and not made himself undroppable...

So carry on...

[66-1112520797]

3. The problem with Pennant has clearly been confidence. He's shown as you say flashes of absoloute class. The run for Fowlers goal against Galatasary, the through ball for Fowler against Reading, the cross for Bellamy's goal after the run against Newcastle, the cross against Villa at the weekend which Fowler attacks... Hang on a minute... Hmmm.... Maybe Pennant's not that bad, maybe like he's an odd peice of the jigsaw due to the strikers being completely the wrong kind of strikers to get the best out of him... Pennant delivers some excellent crosses and the lack of people (especially strikers) attacking them at times is criminal. Essentially do I think he's an out an out match winner... No i don't. Do I think I overated him slightly? Yes I do, as in his own half he can be sloppy. Something which I hadn't previously noticed. Do I think he's good enough for this club as a minimum as a squad player? Definately without a doubt

Overated him   You virtually creamed yourself on here all last year, telling us he's better than Joaquin, SwP etc. He has been dissapointing IMO I expected a little more from him though but you ..... kin hell. Egg on yer face, next time you start dishing out your no it all attitude to fellow fans of this club, just think for a moment that they can disagree with you as your not always right.
As for his crosses, I believe you got caught up in the "most crosses from a winger" stat the year before when he was at Birmingham. One thing you finnally seem to be right on is, that he will only be a squad player and back up to anything new brought in over the summer (if someone new is brought in ?).
I think we've all seen this year that Pennant has lived up to a minimal expectation and had the chance to grab the RM place with both hands, but lets face it he wasnt good enough.

As for Woodgate is this another one of your great visions that you firmly believe can do a job like Pennant ?
Good player, but never in a millioon years would I approach something that injury prone ( Iare you trying to be a touch controversial here ? I think so ) Why would we need him also ?
Our defence have e been superb this season, I thought more holes would appear in it when Sami got shifted out the side. This hasnt been Agger and Carragher have been great, but I do agree with you that Agger has been overhyped slightly. But I also believe he'll get better with experiance in that position as most players do being a centre-half. You cant sit their and laugh and say that old chestnut you use ' if a player hasnt got the ability now he never will have'. Agger has got the ability, he'll get stronger I'm sure, he'll reag the game as well eventually. He'll learn to get his head on the ball more when needed. Those things can and will come with experiance especially playimg alonside Carra. To me no improvement is needed at the back well centrally anyway, as I said at the start of the season I was a little ancious that Rafa would break up a steady partnership in Sami/Carra I really was, but as I look back their was really no need for me to worry. Sami IMO will be here next year doing the same as this, coming in from time to time we also have Arbelo ? who can play CH, aswell as Palleta who still has a lot to learn. I think we're okay in that area, cover for Finnan is needed, and many people think Riise time has come to an end. He hasnt had the best of seasons granted but is still a usefull honest player who I'd give the nod everytime over a player like Pennant.

All the other areas are obvious to everyone, of course you probably wont agree with the majority, but hey thats life and your not always right   I also believe though that Rafa has to adopt a slightly different approach to to going forward and playing at teams in the PREM. Someone said the other day how they remembered Aimar camped on the edge of our box and subjecting in us to somke devastating football. Well we dont have Aimar and we dont play devastating football in the final third. Somebody also posted up some stats from Rafa's time at Valencia a goals for stat, and let me tell you it was pretty clear back then that his methology of scoring goals wasnt exactly working, it was a pretty low count. Its my opinion that Rafa has to DO something else in training to be more creative, I know it sounds simple and vague but I'd like to see the old fashioned 4-4-2 way of when Rush played upfront scoring the goals, clever movenment, one touch football with Beardsley and Barnes playing off of him.   Sorry to sound an old romantic in football but that was and still should be the way to play decent attacking football.

So now the clique hasn't backed you up you have to resort to putting words in my mouth? 

Keep it up. Its getting quite funny.

Dont need no clique to back me up mate FFS   I'll sort you out myself 

I didnt put words into your mouth where have I done that ? I take it your on about my Pennant bit. I dont need to do that everybody can remember how excited you got over him.

Words in your mouth, these quotes are taken from the horses mouth. 

Pennant is technically excellent also. His touch, passes, crosses and level of skill are absoloutely top class.

The lad has ability to be a top class footballer and is in my opinion easily good enough to play international football. He COULD be a superstar IF he gets his head right and moves to a good club. He can actually still improve though. I genuinely believe if he signed for us he would make himself undroppable and become a firm favourate.

There's no question in my mind that he's better than Wright-Phillips (who isn't a bad player). He probably lacks Wright-Phillips ability to score a goal, vision and his attitude off the pitch (which is important), but alround i reckon he pisses all over the Chelsea player and in the right environment with the right players around him could become frighteningly good.

He goes past players like they aren't even there sometimes and the quality of his final ball isn't that far off what Beckham can produce.

Oh the irony 

This my fellow posters is what you call a prime example of a dickhead not knowing what they are talking about... I rest my case.

Of course this was on the subject of Pennant, someone didnt agree wit stu and this is what they got 

So where exactly did I say he was the best in the world? Where did I say he was better than Joaquin?

Did I mention his mentallity being right? I believe so... Is his mentallity right at the minute? No.

Is he better than Wright-Phillips. Definately.

The only thing he's not shown in what I said is that he's not yet made himself a favourate and not made himself undroppable...

So carry on...

Stu thats just one quote I cant be .d anymore to trawl through it as its becoming tedious.

HE"S NOT BETTER THAN SWP not in a million f.ucking years get a clue lad 

" COULD be a superstar " there's no could about it mate, he's got as much chance of becoming a " SUPERSTAR " as Dirk Kuyt has of becoming a male supermodel.

"Easily good enough for international football" do me a favour !

"technically excellent" Please elaborate ?

He is in the right enviroment, but hasnt become frighteningly good. He never was a never will be mate to coin your old phrase. He's never done it before so how will he now bla blah blah.

Face it mate, you've called it wrong theres no harm in admitting it, but its Stu here and he never will as he's ALWAYS right 

[76-1174245250]

I've already said I'd overestimated the lad. But be no means is he a bad player. He's still a bloody a good player and provides good width and is easily good enough to start in this side. Especially as it is.

The thing that makes me laugh is he's no worse than Agger in terms of ability, yet because the players around him aren't suited to his strengths he gets abuse from the clueless. He plays infront of a full back who wouldn't know an overlap if it bit him on the , on the left theres been absoloutely nothing due to playing a pub player in games and a left back in others there and upfront theres absoloutely all basically as Robbie and even Crouch have been on the bench or stands all season.

Its like playing a slow defender in an open style with a high line... or like playing a long high ball to a small striker... or like trying to play Robbie Fowler onto the end of through balls from deep positions what require pace.

[66-1112520797]

I've already said I'd overestimated the lad. But be no means is he a bad player. He's still a bloody a good player and provides good width and is easily good enough to start in this side. Especially as it is.

The thing that makes me laugh is he's no worse than Agger in terms of ability, yet because the players around him aren't suited to his strengths he gets abuse from the clueless. He plays infront of a full back who wouldn't know an overlap if it bit him on the , on the left theres been absoloutely nothing due to playing a pub player in games and a left back in others there and upfront theres absoloutely all basically as Robbie and even Crouch have been on the bench or stands all season.

Its like playing a slow defender in an open style with a high line... or like playing a long high ball to a small striker... or like trying to play Robbie Fowler onto the end of through balls from deep positions what require pace.

So its the players around him that are hindering his game, I take what your saying about the crosses. But that isnt the be all and end all to being a winger. If he was that good a crosser he'd pick out the players where they are, he doesnt look up, he just crosses it. He offers no goal threat what so ever, looses the ball far to oftern when he's dribbling the ball. If he offers such great width i.e hugging the touchline why is an overlap needed from Finnan.

Finnans gone forward (with a nose bleed on numerous occasions  ) and Pennant never picks out the pass, he's got the Milan Baros disease his heads constantly down and rarely looks up.

Mate he's an average run of the meal prem footballer certainly no more and no less.  End of.

[Rafa D]

I had the same argument with Stu earlier on in the season about Pennant's lack of quality. He may be good with the ball etc, but his short passing game is awful and means he will never live up to the hype.


Oh and its nice to see I was right 

[76-1174245250]

I had the same argument with Stu earlier on in the season about Pennant's lack of quality. He may be good with the ball etc, but his short passing game is awful and means he will never live up to the hype.


Oh and its nice to see I was right 

Here we go, another clique member now... This one things Peter Crouch is a quality player...

[Rafa D]

I had the same argument with Stu earlier on in the season about Pennant's lack of quality. He may be good with the ball etc, but his short passing game is awful and means he will never live up to the hype.


Oh and its nice to see I was right 

Here we go, another clique member now... This one things Peter Crouch is a quality player...

Did I or did I not prove you wrong on Pennant?

Stu I know you don't like admitting when your wrong but breathe and take it easy, its a forum. I am willing to entertain your thoughts without accepting them, why can you not do the same?

Peter Crouch is a quality player