How far away are we? - From a title winning squad

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 76-1174245250 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:47 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Ladeulcateg wrote:I've already said I'd overestimated the lad. But be no means is he a bad player. He's still a bloody a good player and provides good width and is easily good enough to start in this side. Especially as it is.

The thing that makes me laugh is he's no worse than Agger in terms of ability, yet because the players around him aren't suited to his strengths he gets abuse from the clueless. He plays infront of a full back who wouldn't know an overlap if it bit him on the :censored:, on the left theres been absoloutely nothing due to playing a pub player in games and a left back in others there and upfront theres absoloutely :censored: all basically as Robbie and even Crouch have been on the bench or stands all season.

Its like playing a slow defender in an open style with a high line... or like playing a long high ball to a small striker... or like trying to play Robbie Fowler onto the end of through balls from deep positions what require pace.

So its the players around him that are hindering his game, I take what your saying about the crosses. But that isnt the be all and end all to being a winger. If he was that good a crosser he'd pick out the players where they are, he doesnt look up, he just crosses it. He offers no goal threat what so ever, looses the ball far to oftern when he's dribbling the ball. If he offers such great width i.e hugging the touchline why is an overlap needed from Finnan.

Finnans gone forward (with a nose bleed on numerous occasions  :D ) and Pennant never picks out the pass, he's got the Milan Baros disease his heads constantly down and rarely looks up.

Mate he's an average run of the meal prem footballer certainly no more and no less.  End of.

I myself play left wing. Its a hell of a lot easier to play with an overlapping full back than one who simply sits and expects you to do all the attacking. Finnan never offers the overlap to Pennant unless he gets a bollocking from the line, Alonso or Gerrard. As good as Finnan is he often leaves Pennant to fend for himself.

You then go onto his crossing. My points clear. No-ones ever there. The forwards don't get into the box and when they do they just stand still which is pathetic. You can't go past players and pick someone out everytime, its about putting the ball in an area and saying to the forwards, there ya go, attack that. When a good striker is on the pitch IE Fowler thats what happens and chances come of it.

And anyone who's even remotely played the game to a minimal standard knows the use of an overlap. Its an option and creates space. It can pull players out of position and also help you pass your way to the by line, it also allows a winger to get into the penalty area, cut inside... there are thousands of uses for it. There are times when you sit there thinking, if Finnan's down the line its a simple ball, then you see Finnan standing there looking lost inside his own half level with the centre backs.

I'll have that he offers no goal threat. Something I've always acknowledged.
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Postby 76-1174245250 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:54 am

Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Ladeulcateg wrote:
Rafa-Dodd wrote:I had the same argument with Stu earlier on in the season about Pennant's lack of quality. He may be good with the ball etc, but his short passing game is awful and means he will never live up to the hype.


Oh and its nice to see I was right  :rasp

Here we go, another clique member now... This one things Peter Crouch is a quality player... :laugh:

Did I or did I not prove you wrong on Pennant?

Stu I know you don't like admitting when your wrong but breathe and take it easy, its a forum. I am willing to entertain your thoughts without accepting them, why can you not do the same?

Peter Crouch is a quality player  :eyebrow

You didn't prove anything and you completely fail to see whats infront of you due to a lack of knowledge, insight or experience within the game. You've clearly never played the game at any level or worked with anyone with an ounce of talent.

I have absoloutely no problem admitting I'm wrong. None whatsoever. I've overestimated Pennant, I thought Benitez and Houllier would be great managers for us, I even thought Robbie would never return to Liverpool.

Do us a favour though ya fat little munchkin, stop making judgements on people you don't know. You aren't big, you aren't clever and your little clique and brown nosing to certain members doesn't impress or intimidate me. The snide comments that are to follow to impress certain people don't intimidate me either and they don't make me look stupid.

I've come across your :censored: once in the past when you was telling everyone how Crouch is better than Ashton and plenty of other premiership strikers :D , you've probably read five out of my 7,000 or so posts so don't sit there making comments like you know any of my personality traits or opinions.
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:56 am

get a clue lad. your problem is you have no soul. there is more to being aliverpool player than ability alone
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Postby 76-1174245250 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:59 am

dawson99 wrote:get a clue lad. your problem is you have no soul. there is more to being aliverpool player than ability alone

Such as? ???
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:00 am

passion. diouff had more skill than say biscan, but who would u prefer put on the shirt?

Rafa makes his decisions, and he knows better than me and you. Ok, Ashton would have beemn a great signing, and he still might be with his clause in his west ham contract.

We could have signed ronaldo a few years back, but would you really want him in your squad?
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Postby Rafa D » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:07 am

Ladeulcateg wrote:
Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Ladeulcateg wrote:
Rafa-Dodd wrote:I had the same argument with Stu earlier on in the season about Pennant's lack of quality. He may be good with the ball etc, but his short passing game is awful and means he will never live up to the hype.


Oh and its nice to see I was right  :rasp

Here we go, another clique member now... This one things Peter Crouch is a quality player... :laugh:

Did I or did I not prove you wrong on Pennant?

Stu I know you don't like admitting when your wrong but breathe and take it easy, its a forum. I am willing to entertain your thoughts without accepting them, why can you not do the same?

Peter Crouch is a quality player  :eyebrow

You didn't prove anything and you completely fail to see whats infront of you due to a lack of knowledge, insight or experience within the game. You've clearly never played the game at any level or worked with anyone with an ounce of talent.

I have absoloutely no problem admitting I'm wrong. None whatsoever. I've overestimated Pennant, I thought Benitez and Houllier would be great managers for us, I even thought Robbie would never return to Liverpool.

Do us a favour though ya fat little munchkin, stop making judgements on people you don't know. You aren't big, you aren't clever and your little clique and brown nosing to certain members doesn't impress or intimidate me. The snide comments that are to follow to impress certain people don't intimidate me either and they don't make me look stupid.

I've come across your :censored: once in the past when you was telling everyone how Crouch is better than Ashton and plenty of other premiership strikers :D , you've probably read five out of my 7,000 or so posts so don't sit there making comments like you know any of my personality traits or opinions.

I have read many of your posts Stu and some are good and some are bad, your inability to accept anyones view apart from your own is a major downfall in your personality.

I am not going to resort to insulting you but please don't make out because you played a little football in school days your the be all and end all of football and Liverpool.

You called me an O.O.T ( I live offically 4 miles from the ground)  last time we had a discussion about something when things weren't going your way, you resort to insults when you have got nothin left and its a stain on your character.

Why do you keep mentioning this "clique"? Are you seriously suggesting that I am disagreeing with you just to please the masses? You think very highly of yourself.

Peter Crouch would be a welcome addition to ANY squad in the Premiership.

I am not trying to intimidate or insult you. There you tactics and they definetly will not work here.
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Postby 76-1174245250 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:08 am

dawson99 wrote:passion. diouff had more skill than say biscan, but who would u prefer put on the shirt?

Rafa makes his decisions, and he knows better than me and you. Ok, Ashton would have beemn a great signing, and he still might be with his clause in his west ham contract.

We could have signed ronaldo a few years back, but would you really want him in your squad?

Rafa knows better than me and you? At all times yeah? Does he never get things wrong? Well if Rafa knows better than everyone how dare anyone question the signings of Pennant and Gonzalez?

I :censored: hate pathetic arguements like that. If he knows better than me why the :censored: doesn't he start his best team every week and why the :censored: did he drop Alonso for the first game of the season? Why the :censored: does he sign Gonzalez and Palletta? Why the :censored: does he sign Crouch instead of Ashton. Kuyt and Bellamy instead of Anelka.

Rafa isn't infalible whatsoever. As for Biscan and Diouf, Biscan wasn't a bad player, he was simply never used in his best position consistently. Diouf wasn't upto it. Talent is alot more than technical ability and ball skill. Talents the whole package.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:12 am

stu, settle down, your abuse is starting again and your name calling. there will be no cards this time, just an instant ban
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Postby 76-1174245250 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:26 am

Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Ladeulcateg wrote:
Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Ladeulcateg wrote:
Rafa-Dodd wrote:I had the same argument with Stu earlier on in the season about Pennant's lack of quality. He may be good with the ball etc, but his short passing game is awful and means he will never live up to the hype.


Oh and its nice to see I was right  :rasp

Here we go, another clique member now... This one things Peter Crouch is a quality player... :laugh:

Did I or did I not prove you wrong on Pennant?

Stu I know you don't like admitting when your wrong but breathe and take it easy, its a forum. I am willing to entertain your thoughts without accepting them, why can you not do the same?

Peter Crouch is a quality player  :eyebrow

You didn't prove anything and you completely fail to see whats infront of you due to a lack of knowledge, insight or experience within the game. You've clearly never played the game at any level or worked with anyone with an ounce of talent.

I have absoloutely no problem admitting I'm wrong. None whatsoever. I've overestimated Pennant, I thought Benitez and Houllier would be great managers for us, I even thought Robbie would never return to Liverpool.

Do us a favour though ya fat little munchkin, stop making judgements on people you don't know. You aren't big, you aren't clever and your little clique and brown nosing to certain members doesn't impress or intimidate me. The snide comments that are to follow to impress certain people don't intimidate me either and they don't make me look stupid.

I've come across your :censored: once in the past when you was telling everyone how Crouch is better than Ashton and plenty of other premiership strikers :D , you've probably read five out of my 7,000 or so posts so don't sit there making comments like you know any of my personality traits or opinions.

I have read many of your posts Stu and some are good and some are bad, your inability to accept anyones view apart from your own is a major downfall in your personality.

I am not going to resort to insulting you but please don't make out because you played a little football in school days your the be all and end all of football and Liverpool.

You called me an O.O.T ( I live offically 4 miles from the ground)  last time we had a discussion about something when things weren't going your way, you resort to insults when you have got nothin left and its a stain on your character.

Why do you keep mentioning this "clique"? Are you seriously suggesting that I am disagreeing with you just to please the masses? You think very highly of yourself.

Peter Crouch would be a welcome addition to ANY squad in the Premiership.

I am not trying to intimidate or insult you. There you tactics and they definetly will not work here.

Right firstly. As I've said previously you don't know my personality at all. You've never once engaged in any sort of personal conversation so stop commenting on it because its starting to irritate me.

I talk about what I know about. If I don't know about something or understand something I am not overly opinionated and am more than willing to SHUT UP and learn from people who are clued up.

You're attempted smart arse comments about my footballing past/present again are well wide of the mark. So again I suggest you refrain from commenting on something you know nothing about.

Basically you can't have a "better opinion" than someone by definition... or even for that matter be wrong because its your opinion. The fact is its there in football. Weather you can see it or not is down to yourself.

You sit here trying to be objective and P.C. to be quite honest its boring. You're brown nosing of anything Liverpool or Benitez is quite an embarressment to the reallity of our current situation.

I'm guessin you can't understand why we've dropped a level or two this season and appear to be going backwards...

Am not gonna bother getting into spat with you. Because the rest of the brown nosing clique will start. End of conversation.

Back to the topic...

We're at least 4 top players away and maybe 5 or 6 on the hole.
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Postby 76-1174245250 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:28 am

peewee wrote:stu, settle down, your abuse is starting again and your name calling. there will be no cards this time, just an instant ban

Here we go. Whats different that I've said in comparrison to what Bamaga man said on the other page?

Go on Peewee, you know you want to. :no
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:34 am

Back to the topic...

We're at least 4 top players away and maybe 5 or 6 on the hole.


Agreed :D  (although i dont know what on the hole means)
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:34 am

fat little munchkin, smart @rse, brown nose, thats just a few of the insults you managed in the last two posts.

stu you were allowed back for football posting on the understanding your abuse stopped, ALL ABUSE.

i cant see anywhere where rafa provoked you into this, you just chose to be abusive for no reason other than he has a different opinion to you.

no doubt you will call this ban personal and say its because i have something against you (even though i dont and i agreed to your coing back when i could have objected), but i also have no doubt that this wont be the end of your abuse if you are allowed to stay.

i will ban you again now and discuss it with the other mods when they log in, we will then decide whether to lift it again, but I doubt it.
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Postby ivor_the_injun » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:43 am

Ladeulcateg wrote:Rafa knows better than me and you? At all times yeah? Does he never get things wrong? Well if Rafa knows better than everyone how dare anyone question the signings of Pennant and Gonzalez?

I hate pathetic arguements like that. If he knows better than me why doesn't he start his best team every week and why did he drop Alonso for the first game of the season? Why does he sign Gonzalez and Palletta? Why does he sign Crouch instead of Ashton. Kuyt and Bellamy instead of Anelka.

Rafa isn't infalible whatsoever. As for Biscan and Diouf, Biscan wasn't a bad player, he was simply never used in his best position consistently. Diouf wasn't upto it. Talent is alot more than technical ability and ball skill. Talents the whole package.

Some points:

1) Alonso was absolutely abysmal at the beginning of the season. Watch those first few games again and it's actually scary how many passes went straight out of play. Tackles too were reckless and way below the standard that we're seeing now. I called for him to be dropped several times in the first month and a half, and I make no apology for it now.

2) There is absolutely no logic whatsoever, especially with the benefit of hindsight, to support the statement that signing Ashton ahead of Crouch would have been a wise thing to do. Crouch is hardly prolific, but he's comfortably outscored Ashton since they made their respective moves. Ashton has been injured almost constantly in the last 12 months, so - to be honest - you need to get over that one. For me, the only thing Crouch has done wrong with us is fail to score headed chances that - say - Ashton would have done better with. Other than that, his signing has been a resounding success for me. He'll never win everybody over, but for a striker that gets bit parts since Kuyt's arrival, he always comes on and makes defenders work.

3) Top teams have been put off Anelka due to his past ties with his shady agent brother, and however good the player, he's the kind of character that puts rumbles in the dressing room. It's absolutely no surprise to me that he's ended up at Bolton instead of a top drawer club, as they've got more than enough baggage in their locker room already. He looks gradually on the wane now anyhow, and I certainly wouldn't be passionate about advocating his signing ahead of Kuyt and Bellamy. Both of those two put more energy into 10 minutes of their performances than Anelka puts into whole games, and we know that's the kind of player Rafa likes.

4) Gonzalez, in fairness, is a hell of a lot better than we've seen. Against Madrid last season he looked everything that hasn't looked for us - pacy, skilful and composed. He has been incrediby nothingy for us, which is a shame. I think there's more to come, and I think Rafa's happy to bide his time with him after the protracted saga of his transfer. Pennant has been alright, but has far from set the Prem on fire. The signs are there that he's capable of being a regular first team player for us, but at the moment they're too few and far between.
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Postby Smeg » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:26 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:
Smeg wrote:The priotiy must be two strikers, a left midfielder, centre back, then right back.
         

           Kuyt  ST

LM   Alonso   Gerrard Pennant

LB   Hyypia  Carra   RB - Only if we can get Alvez.

            Reina

so what stu said then?  :D  :rasp

nah hes after woodgate and ashton  :D
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:03 pm

smeg i answered your pm but i got an ikonboard error when i sent it, let me know if you dont get it
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