Liverpool FC Forum

[fivecups]

If that was all there was to it then we are employing a right bunch of toss.ers    Unlike you I'm prepared to give them a little more credit. I think you're very simple assessment of transfer dealings is naive in the extreme.

None of us can be sure what has gone on, hard to see how Rodgers has done much wrong. However, Damien Commolli was on 5live this morning. He was talking about how you had to give the US members of the board a few weeks notice so they made sure they were contactable on deadline day, that they could be hard to reach. It didn't sound like a professional setup with the clubs success a priority. He said one of them suggested they should buy a winger in addition to a midfielder and Commolli had to explain to them they were the same thing. He wasn't trying to put them down but it hinted at the challenges of having a board based in another country, which for a club of our size makes no sense to me.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

If that was all there was to it then we are employing a right bunch of toss.ers    Unlike you I'm prepared to give them a little more credit. I think you're very simple assessment of transfer dealings is naive in the extreme.

I think your the naive one for believing all their spin, signing players isn't rocket science lad, clubs have been doing it since the 1880's. We spent two months negotiating with Basel and then all of a sudden Chelsea come in and do a deal for a player that wasn't even on their radar in two days for £11m?
I know f##k all about baseball but on another forum someone said the boston Red Sox recently signed a fella called Robinson cano on a deal worth $240m, says a lot that does when deals are falling through left, right and center for us because we are trying to lowball everyone.
FSG said they weren't going to sign any marquee names anymore but concentrate on signing the stars of tomorrow, well those stars of tomorrow are still going to cost anywhere between £10m-£20m but it seems we don't even want to do that anymore, what we seem to be looking for are the cheap stars of tomorrow.
Are we realistically going to compete with teams spending £40m on one player doing that? Is Suarez going to hang around a club showing that type of ambition?
Good luck with that Brendan.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I think if I mull it over, I would much sooner be one of those questioning the owners ambition in regards to a ball they cant have mounted
for their office table rather than blindly trusting owners who seemingly expect us to be content with being thrown the scraps from their
table whilst affording Baseball obscene amounts of money..... Nah not for me ,I smell fish and I suspect  this time its not just coming from
where John Henry's had his fingers .

[Santa]

If that was all there was to it then we are employing a right bunch of toss.ers    Unlike you I'm prepared to give them a little more credit. I think you're very simple assessment of transfer dealings is naive in the extreme.

I think your the naive one for believing all their spin, signing players isn't rocket science lad, clubs have been doing it since the 1880's. We spent two months negotiating with Basel and then all of a sudden Chelsea come in and do a deal for a player that wasn't even on their radar in two days for £11m?
I know f##k all about baseball but on another forum someone said the boston Red Sox recently signed a fella called Robinson cano on a deal worth $240m, says a lot that does when deals are falling through left, right and center for us because we are trying to lowball everyone.
FSG said they weren't going to sign any marquee names anymore but concentrate on signing the stars of tomorrow, well those stars of tomorrow are still going to cost anywhere between £10m-£20m but it seems we don't even want to do that anymore, what we seem to be looking for are the cheap stars of tomorrow.
Are we realistically going to compete with teams spending £40m on one player doing that? Is Suarez going to hang around a club showing that type of ambition?
Good luck with that Brendan.

We are now the laughing stock, the push-overs, the perpetual victim to a last minute snatch-and-grab competitors, the all-talk no ambition club all marquee players should avoid, the lowballer, the perpetual price hagger, the buying-for-tomorrow and losing-today club, a second-tier weakling attempting to muscle in on an elite group of clubs...f*kk if we are a second class cousin to the Boston White Sox, then get the f*kk out and stop trying to spin things around with feckin bullish*te such as "we won't be bullied", "we won't pay over the odds", "we'll trust in the group of players that we currently have", "we are working very hard to sign the RIGHT players", "we've got to watch out and work within FFP", "it's always going to be difficult with this tight deadline windows" etc etc.

Don't you see these are costing our club big time? We are being bullied by our closest competitors and agents/selling club knows how to squeeze us for more cash. We are being owned by a group of cigar smokin soccer Yankee and third rated suits sitting in the boardroom. If all the other clubs (barring Arsenal) can go out and do the business, why can't we even get one fekkin' thing right throughout the window? This is such a critical window yet we TOTALLY FEKK IT ALL UP!

Two things...1) what the fekk are they smoking over there are at Boston? 2) sign Moses on a permanent deal and I will denounce Brendan for the rest of his tenure! You fekkin bunch of m0r0ns! 

[devaney]

If that was all there was to it then we are employing a right bunch of toss.ers    Unlike you I'm prepared to give them a little more credit. I think you're very simple assessment of transfer dealings is naive in the extreme.

I think your the naive one for believing all their spin, signing players isn't rocket science lad, clubs have been doing it since the 1880's. We spent two months negotiating with Basel and then all of a sudden Chelsea come in and do a deal for a player that wasn't even on their radar in two days for £11m?y
I know f##k all about baseball but on another forum someone said the boston Red Sox recently signed a fella called Robinson cano on a deal worth $240m, says a lot that does when deals are falling through left, right and center for us because we are trying to lowball everyone.
FSG said they weren't going to sign any marquee names anymore but concentrate on signing the stars of tomorrow, well those stars of tomorrow are still going to cost anywhere between £10m-£20m but it seems we don't even want to do that anymore, what we seem to be looking for are the cheap stars of tomorrow.
Are we realistically going to compete with teams spending £40m on one player doing that? Is Suarez going to hang around a club showing that type of ambition?
Good luck with that Brendan.

And yet you seem happy to believe almost anything anybody outside the club has to say about our transfer dealings   

Whilst I agree that it is not rocket science, signing players with massive potential is considerably more difficult than you think - lad............. You say you know fk all about baseball. I don't really understand your point. I know quite a lot about F1 but I couldn't tell you a single thing about how one team goes about signing a driver from another team or how the deals are done or financed. Unless you have personal experience of transfer dealings I would suggest most of what you are suggesting is no more than conjecture.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

If that was all there was to it then we are employing a right bunch of toss.ers    Unlike you I'm prepared to give them a little more credit. I think you're very simple assessment of transfer dealings is naive in the extreme.

I think your the naive one for believing all their spin, signing players isn't rocket science lad, clubs have been doing it since the 1880's. We spent two months negotiating with Basel and then all of a sudden Chelsea come in and do a deal for a player that wasn't even on their radar in two days for £11m?y
I know f##k all about baseball but on another forum someone said the boston Red Sox recently signed a fella called Robinson cano on a deal worth $240m, says a lot that does when deals are falling through left, right and center for us because we are trying to lowball everyone.
FSG said they weren't going to sign any marquee names anymore but concentrate on signing the stars of tomorrow, well those stars of tomorrow are still going to cost anywhere between £10m-£20m but it seems we don't even want to do that anymore, what we seem to be looking for are the cheap stars of tomorrow.
Are we realistically going to compete with teams spending £40m on one player doing that? Is Suarez going to hang around a club showing that type of ambition?
Good luck with that Brendan.

And yet you seem happy to believe almost anything anybody outside the club has to say about our transfer dealings   :help

Whilst I agree that it is not rocket science, signing players with massive potential is considerably more difficult than you think - lad............. You say you know fk all about baseball. I don't really understand your point. I know quite a lot about F1 but I couldn't tell you a single thing about how one team goes about signing a driver from another team or how the deals are done or financed. Unless you have personal experience of transfer dealings I would suggest most of what you are suggesting is no more than conjecture.

I think your just an FSG apologist, they just can't do any wrong in your eyes, we tried to sign two players this window and both deals fell through with comments from the other clubs/agents of incompetence on our part yet you keep on trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that we don't really know what's going on like some politician trying a smoke and mirrors trick.
You think two totally unconnected clubs, thousands of miles apart, one in Ukraine and one in Switzerland are in some sort of organised conspiracy to rubbish us or something?
Im not anti FSG, I actually think FSG have made a lot of good decisions lately - hiring Rodgers, John Henry flying over to speak at the hillsborough memorial, the decision to stay at anfield rather than move to a soul less corporate bowl etc are all decisions I commend them for but I'm not a happy clapper either and their transfer strategy to me isn't one of a organisation that has genuine ambitions to get back to the top of the game.
I think there are genuine questions to be asked, for instance If Ian Ayre is the man they send over to do the transfer deals why is he spending half the month of January tying up sponsorship deals with the likes of dunkin donuts, Vauxhalls and Garuda? We saw what their priorities were clearly last month and it wasn't bringing players in it was bringing sponsorship money in.

[maguskwt]

Securing sponsorships seem like Ayre's forte not so securing players. I feel BR should be given more authority on this so that there will not be anymore finger pointing. If the manager feels this is the right player, sanction the deal as long as it is not in the Andy-Carroll-overpaying-class. If the player turns out to be Sh*t, then fair enough BR has to deal with it. The buck stops with the manager.

[damjan193]

Securing sponsorships seem like Ayre's forte not so securing players. I feel BR should be given more authority on this so that there will not be anymore finger pointing. If the manager feels this is the right player, sanction the deal as long as it is not in the Andy-Carroll-overpaying-class. If the player turns out to be Sh*t, then fair enough BR has to deal with it. The buck stops with the manager.

I agree with this. Ayre is not a football person, he's just a business man. Let Rodgers do the football stuff and keep Ayre for the sponsorship deals and the like (if we must keep him).

I also agree with what's being said about the owners and their unwillingness to spend. I'm still not too sure what to think about them, but I guess I'll know for sure how ambitious they are and how serious they are about making us challengers for every title again once the summer transfer window opens.

[devaney]

Yakka - I'm not an apologist as you suggest. I just prefer to give FSG and Ayres some credit rather than castigate them at the first opportunity. I have not read one sensible suggestion on here or anywhere else as to how we can improve our performance in the transfer market. Insulting and berating the very people that have actually got us into the most exciting position we have been in for years is not my style. I'm not a spoilt brat. Like yourself I have had the pleasure of seeing our fantastic club go through the best of times. I have also suffered the frustration of the disgusting H & G era. Every time something goes wrong the crass insults and accusations start doing the rounds. Idiots suggesting that FSG should get the fk out of our club always amuses me. Most of these clowns have virtually zero businessm acumen and yet at the first sign of trouble they bring out the gallows !! The very same people were calling for BR's head when results were not going his way during his first season. The same people wanted Suarez sold because of his behaviour. The same people are now the first out their seats every time Suarez scores.

Virtually nobody, at the beginning of the season, expected us to be in the position we are now so I'm sorry but I'm just going to enjoy the rapid improvement they we have made. If that makes me a "happy clappy" then so be it. If I defend Ayres and the owners it is because the criticism aimed in their direction is totally over the top. Football has it's frustrations. If supporters can't handle that then they shouldn't take an interest. Just look at what the United supporters have enjoyed, in terms of success, for over twenty years and suddenly according to a lot of their glory hunting supporters everybody associated with the club is a complete waste of space.

[SouthCoastShankly]

I honestly think that FSG are doing an OK job. I believe that the real investment from them will come if and when CL is secured. I also think there is a ingrained business model being implemented around FFPR.

I dismiss anyone who says that FFPR are not going to bite. Look at the evidence. Every club is activity reducing its deficit to meet these regulations, even City. The fact that Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are combining forces to apply pressure on UEFA to act if City fail the FFPR test, is evidence that teams are taking this seriously. Why do you think every team is currently racing to secure even higher revenues from sponsorships? The plug the gap that will be there when the ability to borrow beyond your means is taken away.

FSG's model is at it's sweet spot when the FFPR are enforced to its maximum in 2017 - 100% break even accounts. At that point our heavily invested squad of youngsters will have matured. Our sponsorship revenues will be maximised. Our global brand position will allow us access to markets the other PL clubs (bar Utd) cannot compete with us on.

Now the catch-22 to all this is CL. Without this piece of the puzzle, we will never be able to fulfil those ambitions and FSGs model takes years to establish. However the fact the are not budging from this plan is testament to their business model. They have faith in Rodgers, who is delivering and on course to meet his CL qualification goal.

Is this a nervy time - yes. Is it bad enough to want new owners - NO WAY.

We have seen more than once the instability that new owners or a new manager brings. At some point the fickle fans have to plan the long game and back both the manager and owners for more than a couple of seasons.

[only me]

I honestly think that FSG are doing an OK job. I believe that the real investment from them will come if and when CL is secured. I also think there is a ingrained business model being implemented around FFPR.

I dismiss anyone who says that FFPR are not going to bite. Look at the evidence. Every club is activity reducing its deficit to meet these regulations, even City. The fact that Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are combining forces to apply pressure on UEFA to act if City fail the FFPR test, is evidence that teams are taking this seriously. Why do you think every team is currently racing to secure even higher revenues from sponsorships? The plug the gap that will be there when the ability to borrow beyond your means is taken away.

FSG's model is at it's sweet spot when the FFPR are enforced to its maximum in 2017 - 100% break even accounts. At that point our heavily invested squad of youngsters will have matured. Our sponsorship revenues will be maximised. Our global brand position will allow us access to markets the other PL clubs (bar Utd) cannot compete with us on.

Now the catch-22 to all this is CL. Without this piece of the puzzle, we will never be able to fulfil those ambitions and FSGs model takes years to establish. However the fact the are not budging from this plan is testament to their business model. They have faith in Rodgers, who is delivering and on course to meet his CL qualification goal.

Is this a nervy time - yes. Is it bad enough to want new owners - NO WAY.

We have seen more than once the instability that new owners or a new manager brings. At some point the fickle fans have to plan the long game and back both the manager and owners for more than a couple of seasons.

Excellent Analysis! However i think Fans were expecting much better results in the process area. You outlined the Vision or Strategy of the owners which i totally agree with ,but this doesn't contradict having professional individuals in place which can carry out the day2day operations needed for the manager to succeed. The problem isn't in the owner level it is with his paid personnel which handle scouting ,negotiating and so forth.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Yakka - I'm not an apologist as you suggest. I just prefer to give FSG and Ayres some credit rather than castigate them at the first opportunity. I have not read one sensible suggestion on here or anywhere else as to how we can improve our performance in the transfer market. Insulting and berating the very people that have actually got us into the most exciting position we have been in for years is not my style. I'm not a spoilt brat. Like yourself I have had the pleasure of seeing our fantastic club go through the best of times. I have also suffered the frustration of the disgusting H & G era. Every time something goes wrong the crass insults and accusations start doing the rounds. Idiots suggesting that FSG should get the fk out of our club always amuses me. Most of these clowns have virtually zero businessm acumen and yet at the first sign of trouble they bring out the gallows !! The very same people were calling for BR's head when results were not going his way during his first season. The same people wanted Suarez sold because of his behaviour. The same people are now the first out their seats every time Suarez scores.

Virtually nobody, at the beginning of the season, expected us to be in the position we are now so I'm sorry but I'm just going to enjoy the rapid improvement they we have made. If that makes me a "happy clappy" then so be it. If I defend Ayres and the owners it is because the criticism aimed in their direction is totally over the top. Football has it's frustrations. If supporters can't handle that then they shouldn't take an interest. Just look at what the United supporters have enjoyed, in terms of success, for over twenty years and suddenly according to a lot of their glory hunting supporters everybody associated with the club is a complete waste of space.

I'll tell you how to improve our performance in the transfer market - buy some players.
The club has to accept that even £20m isn't a lot of money these days, especially in an era where the likes of Bale and Ronaldo sign for Madrid for £80m+, Zlatan goes to inter for £60m, Cavani goes to PSG for £55m and Falcao goes to Monaco for a similar amount. FSG are mentally scarred by the money they spent on Carroll but that is chump change these days to the top sides. Spending big money is just how big clubs roll these days.
faffing around for 2 months arguing over a £11m fee and then coming away empty handed is actually embaressing for a club of our stature.
Then we get to why is Ayre doing everything? If Ayre would have flown out to the Ukraine on January the 1st instead to the 29th then maybe we'd have someone more able to change a game than Martin Kelly and Joe Allen. Why is he doing deals with multiple sponsors in the middle of the transfer window anyway? Shouldn't he be concentrating on signing players that time of the year? This is a football team after all not a f##king walking advertising hoarding.
Then we get to ambition, with the multiple managerial changes at our rivals and the incredibly poor form of United we will never get a better opportunity of finishing 4th, if ever there was a time to speculate to accumulate it's now.
Next season United will probably change manager and spend big, Arsenal will sign Draxler and no doubt City and Chelsea will be spending money like drunken sailors too, how are we going to break into the CL next season without Suarez if we don't get in this year? I cannot believe that given this once in a decade opportunity to grasp the nettle our owners chose to sit on their hands and do nothing.
Next week we play arsenal at home, if we lose that game given the other fixtures there's a good chance we will be 6th, that's how much of a thread our top 4 hopes hang by, even with the 3rd best player in the world (in the form of his life) in our side.
Mark my words in 5 years time when we are swanning around mid table we will look back on January 2014 as the big opportunity lost, because In the long term you are not going to beat teams who spend £40m on one player by baulking at paying £11m for a 21 year old highly rated prospect with his entire career ahead of him.
Keep on clapping Dev lad.

[only me]

Yakka - I'm not an apologist as you suggest. I just prefer to give FSG and Ayres some credit rather than castigate them at the first opportunity. I have not read one sensible suggestion on here or anywhere else as to how we can improve our performance in the transfer market. Insulting and berating the very people that have actually got us into the most exciting position we have been in for years is not my style. I'm not a spoilt brat. Like yourself I have had the pleasure of seeing our fantastic club go through the best of times. I have also suffered the frustration of the disgusting H & G era. Every time something goes wrong the crass insults and accusations start doing the rounds. Idiots suggesting that FSG should get the fk out of our club always amuses me. Most of these clowns have virtually zero businessm acumen and yet at the first sign of trouble they bring out the gallows !! The very same people were calling for BR's head when results were not going his way during his first season. The same people wanted Suarez sold because of his behaviour. The same people are now the first out their seats every time Suarez scores.

Virtually nobody, at the beginning of the season, expected us to be in the position we are now so I'm sorry but I'm just going to enjoy the rapid improvement they we have made. If that makes me a "happy clappy" then so be it. If I defend Ayres and the owners it is because the criticism aimed in their direction is totally over the top. Football has it's frustrations. If supporters can't handle that then they shouldn't take an interest. Just look at what the United supporters have enjoyed, in terms of success, for over twenty years and suddenly according to a lot of their glory hunting supporters everybody associated with the club is a complete waste of space.

I'll tell you how to improve our performance in the transfer market - buy some players.
The club has to accept that even £20m isn't a lot of money these days, especially in an era where the likes of Bale and Ronaldo sign for Madrid for £80m+, Zlatan goes to inter for £60m, Cavani goes to PSG for £55m and Falcao goes to Monaco for a similar amount. FSG are mentally scarred by the money they spent on Carroll but that is chump change these days to the top sides. Spending big money is just how big clubs roll these days.
faffing around for 2 months arguing over a £11m fee and then coming away empty handed is actually embaressing for a club of our stature.
Then we get to why is Ayre doing everything? If Ayre would have flown out to the Ukraine on January the 1st instead to the 29th then maybe we'd have someone more able to change a game than Martin Kelly and Joe Allen. Why is he doing deals with multiple sponsors in the middle of the transfer window anyway? Shouldn't he be concentrating on signing players that time of the year? This is a football team after all not a f##king walking advertising hoarding.
Then we get to ambition, with the multiple managerial changes at our rivals and the incredibly poor form of United we will never get a better opportunity of finishing 4th, if ever there was a time to speculate to accumulate it's now.
Next season United will probably change manager and spend big, Arsenal will sign Draxler and no doubt City and Chelsea will be spending money like drunken sailors too, how are we going to break into the CL next season without Suarez if we don't get in this year? I cannot believe that given this once in a decade opportunity to grasp the nettle our owners chose to sit on their hands and do nothing.
Next week we play arsenal at home, if we lose that game given the other fixtures there's a good chance we will be 6th, that's how much of a thread our top 4 hopes hang by, even with the 3rd best player in the world (in the form of his life) in our side.
Mark my words in 5 years time when we are swanning around mid table we will look back on January 2014 as the big opportunity lost, because In the long term you are not going to beat teams who spend £40m on one player by baulking at paying £11m for a 21 year old highly rated prospect with his entire career ahead of him.
Keep on clapping Dev lad.

Again excellent post ,it all boils up to one simple conclusion DO YOUR FCKING JOB!!! This isn't over owners and not over money ,it's over Ayre doing his job over his people doing their jobs. Hearing this Krap over wasting time ,over a Ukrainian warlord not signing papers in the last 10 minutes of the transfer market ,no end to excuses...DO YOUR JOB MR AYRE! i 100% agree with the potentially mega fck up we had in missing the narrow historical window getting the tools we need to meet our target ,which is CL spot and PL championship.

[Kash_Mountain]

Thought this was a good read: Past and future tensions aggravate deadline day fears.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/liverpool/id/2450?cc=5739

[devaney]

Yakka/Only Me - If you both honeststly think that going in at the beginning of the transfer window with a big offer for our target players, that have demonstrated massive potential, then you are even more naive than I initially thought. If we had made an initial offer of £16m for Salah do you honestly believe that the player, his agents and the selling club would have been rubbing their hands with glee. Ffs get real this is big business and it is dog eat dog. The reality is that Chelsea or one of the other rich clubs would have sat up and taken a lot of notice possibly even more notice than if we had gone in with a conservative bid. Of course we are going to struggle to secure our targets. It is not as if we have been going after players that other clubs consider a waste of time. We are seriously challenging for fourth place. Do you think it might be possible that Chelsea and Spurs see us a a viable threat for that position? Both of those clubs are aware that we need to strengthen so do you think they are going to make our task an easy one.

Yakka you also suggest that £35m for Carroll could not be considered to be massive money in the overall scheme of things. Do you seriously believe that the likes of Cavani or Mata would have come to Liverpool at this point in timeeven if the owners had sanctioned a big money spend. I love this club mate but I'm trying to be realistic.

Come on lads you've said it is not rocket science so you can each have £50m to buy the player of your choice. Now just tell me how you are going to convince a top flight player to come to Liverpool ahead of Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, PSG, Real Madrid or Barcelona. Very easy to criticise people that are doing a very difficult job. As I have previously said I haven't seen one sensible suggestion as to how we improve our performance in the agent infested transfer market.