Liverpool FC Forum

[kazza]

I honestly think that FSG are doing an OK job. I believe that the real investment from them will come if and when CL is secured. I also think there is a ingrained business model being implemented around FFPR.

I dismiss anyone who says that FFPR are not going to bite. Look at the evidence. Every club is activity reducing its deficit to meet these regulations, even City. The fact that Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are combining forces to apply pressure on UEFA to act if City fail the FFPR test, is evidence that teams are taking this seriously. Why do you think every team is currently racing to secure even higher revenues from sponsorships? The plug the gap that will be there when the ability to borrow beyond your means is taken away.

FSG's model is at it's sweet spot when the FFPR are enforced to its maximum in 2017 - 100% break even accounts. At that point our heavily invested squad of youngsters will have matured. Our sponsorship revenues will be maximised. Our global brand position will allow us access to markets the other PL clubs (bar Utd) cannot compete with us on.

Now the catch-22 to all this is CL. Without this piece of the puzzle, we will never be able to fulfil those ambitions and FSGs model takes years to establish. However the fact the are not budging from this plan is testament to their business model. They have faith in Rodgers, who is delivering and on course to meet his CL qualification goal.

Is this a nervy time - yes. Is it bad enough to want new owners - NO WAY.

We have seen more than once the instability that new owners or a new manager brings. At some point the fickle fans have to plan the long game and back both the manager and owners for more than a couple of seasons.

Well said!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

SCS you said Chelsea are complaining about the money City is spending they curretly ave 34 players on loan 

That is not a club worrying about FFP is it? And it shouldnt be allowed even if these regulations where not being brought in I swear till this day Mourhino only let lakkaku go to he bitters to take points off those teams who are a threat to Chelsea yes It was sly and clever from him but really speaking it shouldnt be allowed.  And something should be done about it whats to say he doesnt loan the bitters Salah or other players next season? There should be complaints against it because IMO its breaking the rules !!

Agreed FFP is a paper tiger

[devaney]

What was the bigger motivator for Chelsea. Did they really want Salah to improve their first team? Or did they want to stop Liverpool from improving their first team? I'm convinced it was the latter and as the rich clubs become richer these tactics will increase. Loaning out quality players to do damage to you key opponents is also a growing trend that is totally unacceptable. Chelsea always knew that Moses was never going to be a serious first teamed for Liverpool so they wee happy for us to pay all or some of his wages. I'll be amazed if we buy him. Similar situation with  Money has always been a critical factor but it is now becoming ridiculous except for the chosen few. Got to agree with SCS and hope that the 2017 financial rule changes actually have a positive effect.

[SouthCoastShankly]

SCS you said Chelsea are complaining about the money City is spending they curretly ave 34 players on loan 

That is not a club worrying about FFP is it? And it shouldnt be allowed even if these regulations where not being brought in I swear till this day Mourhino only let lakkaku go to he bitters to take points off those teams who are a threat to Chelsea yes It was sly and clever from him but really speaking it shouldnt be allowed.  And something should be done about it whats to say he doesnt loan the bitters Salah or other players next season? There should be complaints against it because IMO its breaking the rules !!

See it for yourself - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Play.html

It doesn't matter that Chelsea have 34 players on loan. If they can balance their books (i.e. have no loss at the end of the financial year) they meet the FFPR test. Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd like Man City are exploring others ways to gain income to allow them to spend more on transfers.

Consider this. Previous to the FFPR a club could borrow what they wanted from banks, spend millions on players and post enormous losses. When a wealthy beneficiary (like Sheik Mohammed) buys a club he creates multiple holding companies to route finances into his club. He does this to remove exposure to himself in the event of the club failing. If the club fails and the banks call in the loans he will not be liable for the debt, the holding company will be. This means that he can leverage debt against the club and walk away without paying a penny. Hardly a healthy situation is it.

That is why FIFA brought in the FFPR, it sole aim was to prevent debt being piled onto a club using the mechanisms describe above. It aims to stop owners subsidising their clubs by injecting large amounts of money that their clubs could never make on their own.They stated that if you could not run your club at break-even accounts by 2017 you would not be granted a UEFA licence - No Champions League or Europa. These rules are gradually being implemented now, the first period the FFPR test will be next year.

That is why Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal all actively reducing debt levels and increasing sponsorships and other revenue streams to ensure they have money to spend each season. The FFPR also make CL qualification even more enticing as the £60 odd million given out to participating teams will be even more valuable come 2017 and the era of no leveraged debt.

Now going back to the Man City controversy with FFPR. The reason we and other clubs are trying to stitch them up is because it looks like they have cheated the system. They have gone about reducing their debt levels by selling image rights and other unidentifiable assets to companies that are owned by Sheik Mohammed. They are essentially moving their debt to another company. That is why we and others are objecting and applying pressure to FIFA.

Final point regarding Chelsea's 34 loanee's. Although they are signing players, they will be getting loan money back for them and they won't be paying wages. If they spend £15M on a player and that cost is paid over, typically, 2 or 3 seasons. Thats £5M per year on the accounts plus wages. If they loan him out, they could easily pay nothing on him in the first year. We paid £6M for Sahin...

FIFA's Financial Fair Play Rules will bite. Some on here can doubt it but the evidence is growing. Clubs are all actively reducing debt (check their accounts). Clubs are all increasing other revenues. Clubs are all increasing youth development (this investment is free under FFPR) and young player purchases.

And now we have us and two other clubs trying to sue Man City for breach of FFPR. Does that sound like a scheme not being taken seriously?

[Johnny Boy]

I think what annoyed me during the window was we didn't really go for the player(s) we need.

Sure a left sided attacker would be a good option, but that could have really waited till summer and to leave to the last day of the window was ridiculous.

We really need a Didi Hamann type, preferably someone who can get forward too - as we saw against WBA we didn't retain the ball anything like as well as we should have, Coutinho in particular is frustrating sometimes.
A left back also could have been worth considering.

[red till i die!!]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/footba ... fc-6670349?

I’m worried that Liverpool’s lack of  transfer activity will return to haunt us  come May. We had a great opportunity to  strengthen the squad during the January  window but we failed to take it and I find that  crazy.

The Liverpool fans I’ve spoken to are  concerned about the club’s transfer policy and  I have to agree with a lot of the things I’ve  heard.

There seem to be conflicting stories about  what happened with Yehven Konoplyanka.  Dnipro say we didn’t come up with the cash  in time on deadline day, while Liverpool insist  it simply came down to the Ukraine club’s  owner refusing to sign the paperwork.

What we do know is that Liverpool missed  out on a very good player. And that’s not the  first time that’s happened over the past couple  of years and it’s very frustrating.

If Dnipro were playing silly buggers then I’d  like to hear Ian Ayre or the owners come out  and explain what’s gone on.

As supporters we want to know why deals  always seem to break down. We seem to either  lose out to a rival club or the player ends up  staying put.

I know you want to keep your business  private but the fans need enlightening.

Why did we leave it so late to get our  business done?

Why did we spend so long trying to sign  Mohamed Salah who ended up going to  Chelsea?

Why is a club the size of Liverpool relying  on loan players like Aly Cissokho and Victor  Moses?

Stoke City's Charlie Adam takes on Liverpool's Aly CissokhoStoke City's Charlie Adam takes on Liverpool's Aly Cissokho 
The fact is we should be competing with  the best and we should be able to afford the  best.

We are a massive club and we should be  going out and signing £20m  players, not taking gambles  on £6/£7m players.

Maybe the owners were  worried about  committing more funds  when four players we  signed last summer –  Cissokho, Luis Alberto,  Iago Aspas and Moses –  have done so little.

It’s a shame because Brendan  Rodgers is doing a great job. He has taken us  to a position where we didn’t expect to be.

We all know how important fourth place is.  If we get in the Champions League, Luis  Suarez stays and we get a big injection of  cash.

If we end up fifth or sixth we could lose  Suarez and then we’ll be starting all over  again.

That one extra player in January could have  helped us pick up that extra three or four  points which might make all the difference.

What’s clear is that if we do get into the  Champions League we’re going to need to  throw a lot of money at our squad because it’s  simply not good enough to be able to compete  both in Europe and domestically.

Look at Man City and Chelsea, they can  pretty much field two teams of similar  quality – that’s how far away we are.  Signing either Salah or Konoplyanka in  January would have been one less player  we needed this summer.

Hopefully we can get away with it and  the current crop can keep us inside the  top four.

But if we do fall away fans will point  to the January window as a missed  opportunity to ensure we really push on.

The Merseyside derby was a  crazy game and you have to say  Everton got off lightly. If the  penalty had gone in it would  have been 5-0 with more than  half an hour still to play.

It was an excellent  performance and we just blew  Everton away in that first half.

They were missing some of  their big players at the back and  we took full advantage.

The attacking quartet of  Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and  Sterling were so dangerous,  while Steven Gerrard was our  best player. He rolled back the  years with that tremendous  display.

[The Good Yank]

I'm Fumin!!! We haven't beaten anyone above us yet this season 

[Stu the Red]

In hindsight his looks like a fantastic gamble... at the time it was a massive worry...

Hopefully it will work out for the best in the summer.

[damjan193]

I'm Fumin!!! We haven't beaten anyone above us yet this season 

Ah damn it! Was saving that joke but you beat me to it 

[The Good Yank]

I'm Fumin!!! We haven't beaten anyone above us yet this season 

Ah damn it! Was saving that joke but you beat me to it 

Ha, sorry mate.

[devaney]

I'll reserve my judgement until the end of the season to see if we got away with our activity in the transfer market this season. We are literally a booking and a couple of injuries to key players away having a very serious problem. Keeping our strike force and Gerrard free from bookings and injury is going to have a big say. Sorry to piss on anybodies chips but to be frank I'm quietly crapping myself. We desperately need a bit of luck on our side more than ever 

[SouthCoastShankly]

I'll reserve my judgement until the end of the season to see if we got away with our activity in the transfer market this season. We are literally a booking and a couple of injuries to key players away having a very serious problem. Keeping our strike force and Gerrard free from bookings and injury is going to have a big say. Sorry to piss on anybodies chips but to be frank I'm quietly crapping myself. We desperately need a bit of luck on our side more than ever 

Reserve your judgement?

So if we don't win the league there's judgement to be handed out?

I personally am thrilled with this season and IF we fail to win the league and even worse than that, finish only fourth - there will not be an ounce of judgement coming from my mouth.

[devaney]

That's fine SCS and I have no problem with your enthusiasm. The fact does however remain that we failed to strengthen the squad in January when we were in the best position to win the league that we have been for a very long time. Would you still feel the same if we had lost a couple of key players due to injury early in January and we ultimately finished fifth. I defended Ayres in January because I felt the criticism based on a lot of conjecture was unacceptable and I still do. The transfer market is an incredibly difficult market unless you are prepared to simply throw idiotic amounts of money and wages at it. I'm not keen on the idea of another Carroll saga. Having said that our strength in depth for years has left a lot to be desired and this season we have benefited from only being involved in one major competition for a sustained period of time. We have had a fantastic league season with a small squad that has had more than its fair share of injuries. BR can be congratulated for getting the very best out of his limited squad and I just hope we can keep it going for a few more games.

And SCS you're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say anything about winning the league 

[SouthCoastShankly]

That's fine SCS and I have no problem with your enthusiasm. The fact does however remain that we failed to strengthen the squad in January when we were in the best position to win the league that we have been for a very long time. Would you still feel the same if we had lost a couple of key players due to injury early in January and we ultimately finished fifth. I defended Ayres in January because I felt the criticism based on a lot of conjecture was unacceptable and I still do. The transfer market is an incredibly difficult market unless you are prepared to simply throw idiotic amounts of money and wages at it. I'm not keen on the idea of another Carroll saga. Having said that our strength in depth for years has left a lot to be desired and this season we have benefited from only being involved in one major competition for a sustained period of time. We have had a fantastic league season with a small squad that has had more than its fair share of injuries. BR can be congratulated for getting the very best out of his limited squad and I just hope we can keep it going for a few more games.

And SCS you're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say anything about winning the league 

Ok swap "win the league" with "top 3"

Any top four finish is massive progress, even with a dry january transfer window. Even in January we were at least fifth favourites for the league. In January we weren't even favourites to finish top 4, it wasn't until we caned arsenal the odds starting swinging in our favour.

In my opinion this season has already been an enormous success regardless of the finish now

[devaney]

Of course it has been a fantastic season. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not bothered that we were 5th favourites to win the league back in January. The point that I'm making is that by late December we were still in a very good position to potentially win the league or as a minimum top four. Certainly the best position we had been in for many years.

Did I mention top 3? You're at it again    You're misinterpreting my concerns. I'm not being overly critical. I'm just concerned that our lack of strength in depth could cause us a problem. I'M JUST GETTING A BIT NERVOUS !! After nearly 25 years of waiting I think that is the least I'm entitled to