Liverpool FC Forum

[7_Kewell]

Kewell - you're talking b*llocks.


No one but Man U wanted Cantona.
Southampton didn't want Crouch, they wanted more money for him.

Norwich wouldn't be able to afford Fowler's wages. A goal return of 1 in 3 considering the problems he's had is astounding.
Equally astounding is your short-sightedness regarding a true legend.
You really should learn to read between the lines lad.

Southampton didn't want to sell Crouch.  Why would they want to sell their highest goal scorer after being relegated???

I don't have it in for Fowler, i just think he's washed up and will be packing it all in because he has neither the ability nor desire to play.  Cantona is a bad example because he was a trouble maker and, despite this, helped Leeds in the title with some great performances.  Fowlers hattrick against Scunthorpe hardly warrents such praise.

[Sabre]

Well there are some attributes that are lost with aging and others that are not. Players like Cisse when they're 30 their usually have to retire, as they base their game in things that are lost with youth. A good finnisher won't lose his capabilities, though losing that fraction of second in speed, might make him miss some goals. IN that sense I think Fowler is a player that can play more years than others.

In the numbers are not everything I agree stu. And even if the system suits well they are very dependant of the service they are provided with. Kovacevic, with the service of Alonso, De Pedro and Karpin, scored more than 25 goals. Last year he scored 8, but then, I think he was crucial so that we had no problems with relegation. Numbers are not everything in football.

That said, the fact I agree stu on this one doesn't mean I agree the other things that are posted are tosh :P

[7_Kewell]

Well there are some attributes that are lost with aging and others that are not. Players like Cisse when they're 30 their usually have to retire, as they base their game in things that are lost with youth. A good finnisher won't lose his capabilities, though losing that fraction of second in speed, might make him miss some goals. IN that sense I think Fowler is a player that can play more years than others.

In the numbers are not everything I agree stu. And even if the system suits well they are very dependant of the service they are provided with. Kovacevic, with the service of Alonso, De Pedro and Karpin, scored more than 25 goals. Last year he scored 8, but then, I think he was crucial so that we had no problems with relegation. Numbers are not everything in football.

That said, the fact I agree stu on this one doesn't mean I agree the other things that are posted are tosh :P

if Fowler still had half the ability he use to, there would be no way teams in the Championship would be turning him down.  Why would they?  He would be a golden ticket for promotion. The reason they won't touch him is because he's a footballer whose personally worth 28 million and generally can't play more than 4 games without getting injured again. 

hence the same question comes up, does Fowler have the desire or ability to play 40 games a season?  Sadly, the answer for me (and a lot of football managers) is no.

[115-1073096938]

Stu...i'm repeating the facts because you don't understand them.  It don't matter what style of play Fowler would suit, his pace/touch/desire have all but left him.  So he scored a hattrick against a league 2 side, so what?  In that league, he probably could cut it, but in the Premiership, and the Championship, he's not seen as a talent anymore.  You brush off the fact that Norwich/Millwall and god knows who else, have rejected him...yet seem unable to grasp the importance of this.  The reason noone wants him (including City) is because he's finished. Yes, he'll have 1 or 2 games where  he'll relive some of the old magic, but he can't do it week in week out.  Come the Summer, why don't you become his agent, he'll need all the help he can get in finding a new club 

Right, so if City didn't play to suit Fowler he wouldn't have scored more than the 28 in 90 in he already has? Has he not made, are you ready for this? 32 sub appearances out of the 90 and maybe another few were starts, again, don't you think this would have upped his goalscoring ratio?

You say his pace has left him? When did Fowler EVER have pace? I can't remember him ever having any.

His touch has gone? Wheres the evidence? His desire? He didn't want to score goals in his last two games? Nar didn't think so.

Again, you repeat... in bold the... No-one else rates him so they are right and you're wrong arguement. I've asked a few times now, back this up with something else other than that arguement, 5 posts later, i'm still waiting.

[7_Kewell]

Stu...i'm repeating the facts because you don't understand them.  It don't matter what style of play Fowler would suit, his pace/touch/desire have all but left him.  So he scored a hattrick against a league 2 side, so what?  In that league, he probably could cut it, but in the Premiership, and the Championship, he's not seen as a talent anymore.  You brush off the fact that Norwich/Millwall and god knows who else, have rejected him...yet seem unable to grasp the importance of this.  The reason noone wants him (including City) is because he's finished. Yes, he'll have 1 or 2 games where  he'll relive some of the old magic, but he can't do it week in week out.  Come the Summer, why don't you become his agent, he'll need all the help he can get in finding a new club 

Right, so if City didn't play to suit Fowler he wouldn't have scored more than the 28 in 90 in he already has? Has he not made, are you ready for this? 32 sub appearances out of the 90 and maybe another few were starts, again, don't you think this would have upped his goalscoring ratio?

You say his pace has left him? When did Fowler EVER have pace? I can't remember him ever having any.

His touch has gone? Wheres the evidence? His desire? He didn't want to score goals in his last two games? Nar didn't think so.

Again, you repeat... in bold the... No-one else rates him so they are right and you're wrong arguement. I've asked a few times now, back this up with something else other than that arguement, 5 posts later, i'm still waiting.

Stu..............the basic fact that backs up my 'noone wants Fowler' arguement is this. 

His contract is not going to be renewed by City-- Man City don't want him

He's been offered to football teams in the Premiership and Championship, but no offers- no one else wants him.

is THAT simple enough for you?

[115-1073096938]

if Fowler still had half the ability he use to, there would be no way teams in the Championship would be turning him down.  Why would they?  [b] He would be a golden ticket for promotion. The reason they won't touch him is because he's a footballer whose personally worth 28 million and generally can't play more than 4 games without getting injured again.   

hence the same question comes up, does Fowler have the desire or ability to play 40 games a season?  Sadly, the answer for me [b](and a lot of football managers) is no.

I think we're going round in circles, again, i ask you to back up your opinion with something other than what everyone else thinks.

What everyone else thinks doesn't matter to me. What i see matters. If someone else thinks the same, that backs it up. When i see a lad that recieves a ball on the edge of the 18 yard box, has half a second looks up and strokes the ball into the side netting as if he was training he was training to score a class goal that says it all.

Then a week later when he rattles a great finish from 14 yards past one of the best keepers in the league and top 3 sides in the league, that then confirms he still has ALOT of ability. Then to see passion when he's scored, that to me says theres still the desire to be loved and to do what he does best in the lad.

Provide a different arguement, i'm still waiting.

[7_Kewell]

if Fowler still had half the ability he use to, there would be no way teams in the Championship would be turning him down.  Why would they?  [b] He would be a golden ticket for promotion. The reason they won't touch him is because he's a footballer whose personally worth 28 million and generally can't play more than 4 games without getting injured again.   

hence the same question comes up, does Fowler have the desire or ability to play 40 games a season?  Sadly, the answer for me [b](and a lot of football managers) is no.

I think we're going round in circles, again, i ask you to back up your opinion with something other than what everyone else thinks.

What everyone else thinks doesn't matter to me. What i see matters. If someone else thinks the same, that backs it up. When i see a lad that recieves a ball on the edge of the 18 yard box, has half a second looks up and strokes the ball into the side netting as if he was training he was training to score a class goal that says it all.

Then a week later when he rattles a great finish from 14 yards past one of the best keepers in the league and top 3 sides in the league, that then confirms he still has ALOT of ability. Then to see passion when he's scored, that to me says theres still the desire to be loved and to do what he does best in the lad.

Provide a different arguement, i'm still waiting.

Stu.......as my previous post has said, Fowler won't have his contract renewed.  Man City have admited this....they have also admitted that he can leave should an offer come in, this hasn't happened.  They have EVEN OFFERED HIS ON A FREE TRANSFER to Norwich and Millwall....STILL NO OFFERS....do you see a pattern emerging here? 

[115-1073096938]

Yes clearly the pattern is to much for you to grasp.

You're arguement is that no-one else rates him. Mine is I rate him and i have the balls to go against the majority where as people like yourself, who can't judge a player, go with the majority.

Its highly amusing when people like you question my judgment on a player when all you do, is base your opinions on other peoples rather than what you actually see.

The point is, you've spent the last half an hour telling me how no-one rates Fowler? I've spend the last half an hour waiting for you to come up with reasons why you don't, yet all you can say is "because no-one else does". That says it all about you're knowledge of the game. You rate players like Carragher as "world class" Which i am quoting... JAMIE CARRAGHER "WORLD CLASS" because the crowd go with it, yet i bet 6 years ago, you wouldn't have complained if he was dropped. The slagging off he used to get and the times i defended him from idiots like you, crowd followers, people without there own opinions, now look at you all.

The fact is, my opinion of hims stayed the same all along because i was right in my judgement, yours changes more times than you change your boxies because you were wrong.

Lad, my points clear, back up YOUR opinions, or don't you have any?

[115-1073096938]

Basically, you're opinion isn't your own.

Comprendè?

[7_Kewell]

Yes clearly the pattern is to much for you to grasp.

You're arguement is that no-one else rates him. Mine is I rate him and i have the balls to go against the majority where as people like yourself, who can't judge a player, go with the majority.

Its highly amusing when people like you question my judgment on a player when all you do, is base your opinions on other peoples rather than what you actually see.

The point is, you've spent the last half an hour telling me how no-one rates Fowler? I've spend the last half an hour waiting for you to come up with reasons why you don't, yet all you can say is "because no-one else does". That says it all about you're knowledge of the game. You rate players like Carragher as "world class" Which i am quoting... JAMIE CARRAGHER "WORLD CLASS" because the crowd go with it, yet i bet 6 years ago, you wouldn't have complained if he was dropped. The slagging off he used to get and the times i defended him from idiots like you, crowd followers, people without there own opinions, now look at you all.

The fact is, my opinion of hims stayed the same all along because i was right in my judgement, yours changes more times than you change your boxies because you were wrong.

Lad, my points clear, back up YOUR opinions, or don't you have any?

Stu.......you're a funny guy, you really are!  let's see...ok right, back to the Carra arguement....seems you've missed the point (again) there.

You argued that players were born great and not moulded....my POINT was Carra started off as a squad player for us and now, 6 years later, he's WORLD CLASS......you understand that?  if not, re-read it and try again, it will answer your question...it says that he started off average/good and now is WORLD CLASS after being moulded with good training.  Get it yet?  good.

Reasons i don't rate Fowler anymore....well, i've said it a few times, but what the hell, lets say it a few more!  He can't get a contract at city or anywhere else......you get that?  He's a footballer who can't get a contract, ANYWHERE....now call me funny, but when noone offers a player a contract, it means that they (paid football manager) don't rate him....now how can this be?  They are experts who have scouts and stuff?!!?  i gues it's because they know, as i do, that Fowler is past it.

so now we boil down to the basic point....you think you're right and refuse to back down....why?  because you're an egotistical moron who thinks he knows it all, fact is you know jack!  Thanks for the entertainment, it's been fun, i'm off to bed!

[babu]

Stu to be fair what you are asking from 7_kewell, is basically why he doesn't rate him? He can't give reasons why he personally doesn't rate because anyone can jump all over those reasons.

for example if he said 'fowler is slower' - you can say 'he never had pace'
if he said 'fowler has lost interest' - you can 'did you see the last two games?'

I think (and I could be wrong) but 7_kewell is saying that if he is not being offered a contract, there must be reasons for this (eg maybe behind the scenes or at training fowler is not showing the level of commitment needed - and other clubs know this).

You want Kewell's own opinion, I reckon he's given it, but he based it differently from. His opinions is based on the fact no other clubs want him.

Yours is based on what you've seen of him on the football field.

you are both right and both wrong. if you see what i mean....

anyway sorry to butt in.

[Lando_Griffin]

Yes clearly the pattern is to much for you to grasp.

You're arguement is that no-one else rates him. Mine is I rate him and i have the balls to go against the majority where as people like yourself, who can't judge a player, go with the majority.

Its highly amusing when people like you question my judgment on a player when all you do, is base your opinions on other peoples rather than what you actually see.

The point is, you've spent the last half an hour telling me how no-one rates Fowler? I've spend the last half an hour waiting for you to come up with reasons why you don't, yet all you can say is "because no-one else does". That says it all about you're knowledge of the game. You rate players like Carragher as "world class" Which i am quoting... JAMIE CARRAGHER "WORLD CLASS" because the crowd go with it, yet i bet 6 years ago, you wouldn't have complained if he was dropped. The slagging off he used to get and the times i defended him from idiots like you, crowd followers, people without there own opinions, now look at you all.

The fact is, my opinion of hims stayed the same all along because i was right in my judgement, yours changes more times than you change your boxies because you were wrong.

Lad, my points clear, back up YOUR opinions, or don't you have any?

Stu.......you're a funny guy, you really are!  let's see...ok right, back to the Carra arguement....seems you've missed the point (again) there.

You argued that players were born great and not moulded....my POINT was Carra started off as a squad player for us and now, 6 years later, he's WORLD CLASS......you understand that?  if not, re-read it and try again, it will answer your question...it says that he started off average/good and now is WORLD CLASS after being moulded with good training.  Get it yet?  good.

Reasons i don't rate Fowler anymore....well, i've said it a few times, but what the hell, lets say it a few more!  He can't get a contract at city or anywhere else......you get that?  He's a footballer who can't get a contract, ANYWHERE....now call me funny, but when noone offers a player a contract, it means that they (paid football manager) don't rate him....now how can this be?  They are experts who have scouts and stuff?!!?  i gues it's because they know, as i do, that Fowler is past it.

so now we boil down to the basic point....you think you're right and refuse to back down....why?  because you're an egotistical moron who thinks he knows it all, fact is you know jack!  Thanks for the entertainment, it's been fun, i'm off to bed!

So you can't give an actual reason for not rating him, other than a few sh*t managers don't?

Good reasoning, chump. 


These are the facts:
Fowler is a player who needs a constant run in the team to see the best of him. He is only the best when allowed to gain sharpness.

JC always had the ability he has got now, it's just that, as Stu said, he is playing in a system which highlights his strengths, and hides his few weaknesses.


I take it that in your little world, the same rules cannot apply to Fowler as he's a striker?


Make the world a better place lad, and grow up.

[Lando_Griffin]

Kewell - you're talking b*llocks.


No one but Man U wanted Cantona.
Southampton didn't want Crouch, they wanted more money for him.

Norwich wouldn't be able to afford Fowler's wages. A goal return of 1 in 3 considering the problems he's had is astounding.
Equally astounding is your short-sightedness regarding a true legend.
You really should learn to read between the lines lad.

Southampton didn't want to sell Crouch.  Why would they want to sell their highest goal scorer after being relegated???

I don't have it in for Fowler, i just think he's washed up and will be packing it all in because he has neither the ability nor desire to play.  Cantona is a bad example because he was a trouble maker and, despite this, helped Leeds in the title with some great performances.  Fowlers hattrick against Scunthorpe hardly warrents such praise.

How many of Cole's goals were against top-class opposition?

Am I to assume that scoring against Man U against a brilliant 'keeper isn't deserving of your praise too?

Tw*t.

[115-1073096938]

Stu to be fair what you are asking from 7_kewell, is basically why he doesn't rate him? He can't give reasons why he personally doesn't rate because anyone can jump all over those reasons.

for example if he said 'fowler is slower' - you can say 'he never had pace'
if he said 'fowler has lost interest' - you can 'did you see the last two games?'

I think (and I could be wrong) but 7_kewell is saying that if he is not being offered a contract, there must be reasons for this (eg maybe behind the scenes or at training fowler is not showing the level of commitment needed - and other clubs know this).

You want Kewell's own opinion, I reckon he's given it, but he based it differently from. His opinions is based on the fact no other clubs want him.

Yours is based on what you've seen of him on the football field.

you are both right and both wrong. if you see what i mean....

anyway sorry to butt in.

Hang on a minute, my opinions based on what i've seen, 7_Kewell's is based on other managers opinions...

Thats my point, thanks Babu.

[115-1073096938]

Yes clearly the pattern is to much for you to grasp.

You're arguement is that no-one else rates him. Mine is I rate him and i have the balls to go against the majority where as people like yourself, who can't judge a player, go with the majority.

Its highly amusing when people like you question my judgment on a player when all you do, is base your opinions on other peoples rather than what you actually see.

The point is, you've spent the last half an hour telling me how no-one rates Fowler? I've spend the last half an hour waiting for you to come up with reasons why you don't, yet all you can say is "because no-one else does". That says it all about you're knowledge of the game. You rate players like Carragher as "world class" Which i am quoting... JAMIE CARRAGHER "WORLD CLASS" because the crowd go with it, yet i bet 6 years ago, you wouldn't have complained if he was dropped. The slagging off he used to get and the times i defended him from idiots like you, crowd followers, people without there own opinions, now look at you all.

The fact is, my opinion of hims stayed the same all along because i was right in my judgement, yours changes more times than you change your boxies because you were wrong.

Lad, my points clear, back up YOUR opinions, or don't you have any?

Stu.......you're a funny guy, you really are!  let's see...ok right, back to the Carra arguement....seems you've missed the point (again) there.

You argued that players were born great and not moulded....my POINT was Carra started off as a squad player for us and now, 6 years later, he's WORLD CLASS......you understand that?  if not, re-read it and try again, it will answer your question...it says that he started off average/good and now is WORLD CLASS after being moulded with good training.  Get it yet?  good.

Reasons i don't rate Fowler anymore....well, i've said it a few times, but what the hell, lets say it a few more!  He can't get a contract at city or anywhere else......you get that?  He's a footballer who can't get a contract, ANYWHERE....now call me funny, but when noone offers a player a contract, it means that they (paid football manager) don't rate him....now how can this be?  They are experts who have scouts and stuff?!!?  i gues it's because they know, as i do, that Fowler is past it.

so now we boil down to the basic point....you think you're right and refuse to back down....why?  because you're an egotistical moron who thinks he knows it all, fact is you know jack!  Thanks for the entertainment, it's been fun, i'm off to bed!

Right, so Jamie Carragher has improved his tackling ability, pace, strength, positional play, passing, technical ability blah blah blah and gone from being a good player to a "world class" one? And you say i'm funny?

Jamie Carragher has the same level of ABILITY he's always had. ABILITY, see that word? ABILITY. Thats what makes you world class. ABILITY, look again, ABILITY. Not form, not playing in a good system that suits you. Jamie Carragher doesn't have world class ABILITY so therefore isn't a world FOOTBALLER. Jamie Carrgher is a very good player who is played in a system which suits his ATTRIBUTES perfectly to get the best out of him and help him perform to the best of his ABILITY.

You following this so far? Jamie Carragher become this wonderfull alround player since Benitez came to the club, he's simply moved to his best position and slotted into the SYSTEM perfectly. Moulded? Yes, moulded into the system. Does that mean all his attributes get better? No it doesn't.
I've explained this many times for people with a lack of knowledge so they understand.

If you have a player who is amazing at recovery tackles but not so good at reading the game, what do you ask him to do? Read the game? No, you ask him to make recovery tackles. Sami Hyypia is great in the air, if you asked Hyypia and Carragher to swap roles, would they look as good? I don't think so some how. Does that make it any clearer for you or do i have to explain in great detail because you aren't intelligent enough to understand?

Yes, you've said many times you don't have you're opinion, you're basing it on experts like Basset, Worthington, etc. Scouts and stuff like that. I'm sorry, but you think Ferdinand isn't good enough to play for England over Carragher right? Who are you to question Sven, the england manager then? Football managers and coaches aren't always right. Infact, ALOT of them get it wrong ALOT of the time. Even the best get it horribley wrong, look at Ferguson with Djemba-Djemba or Veron.

Wenger with Jeffers. etc etc etc. Mind you, they're the experts right, they're always right.

7_Kewell, you're pathetic, having to result to name calling because i've ripped your aguement to shreds? I know Jack? I don't actually, don't know anyone called Jack.

I know my football though lad, not something that can be said about you. Sleep tight.