Liverpool FC Forum

[ivor_the_injun]

I'm not kidding myself into thinking that the Middlesbrough result is the end of our season, but neither am I going to dismiss it as a one-off. Yes, Bolton have been a cracking little side this season, but we should not be coming away with nothing from games against teams of their ilk. Same with Birmingham, same with Middlesbrough.

I'm completely clear on the point that this season is a transitional one. But let's not forget that teams like Middlesbrough and Everton have had significant changes in personnel going into this season, and for some reason they're getting results and we're not. I can dismiss this as irrelevant or a coincidence to a point, but the reality is that teams that are in good nick don't need the bulk of a season to find their feet. I'm not going to jump all over Benitez for clearing out too hastily, and I'm not going to moan excessively about the Owen affair. I'm not even going to winge incessantly about the injuries we've had, but the sum of these things has equated to LFC - a third of the way through the Premiership campaign, let's not forget - being 13 points off Chelsea at the top.

Yes, players take time to bed in; yes, new tactics take time to work out. But let's not f*ck about here - if we're no closer to the leaders in points terms come the January window, it won't be because we've been unlucky with injuries. Top sides have squads, not teams, and we've got more than enough very well-paid players on our books (both at the club and loaned elsewhere) to get us a result against any team in the Premiership.

So why aren't we?

[A.B.]

You must realize that La Liga and Premier League are different therefore Benitez has different ideas,tactics than lets say a manager who has some experience with the Premiership.

[ivor_the_injun]

I do realise that. If that's an excuse for why we're losing nearly as many as we're winning in the league this season, then I'm afraid that's no good, mate.

[A.B.]

It's no execuse, it's a fact.

[ivor_the_injun]

Well whatever. I don't subscribe to the idea that it takes years to teach players to play in a certain way though.

Straightaway this season we've obviously been playing more eye-catching stuff, but - like I keep saying - we need to translate this progress into results before you can accurately label it "progress". If you introduce new ideas, you should start seeing the fruits of those ideas pretty much immediately. Yes, things will improve over time as players become more familiar, but 4 months into the season I'm not really seeing any real arc of progress. Quite a few players - particularly the Spaniards - are seemingly on a downward curve of form as the season progresses.

My worry is that we're going to permanently be one season away from getting our act together. We've obviously got to bring players in during the January window, but what then? If they don't work out immediately, do they automatically get a year's worth of grace from criticism? If they're not performing then, do we ship them out and keep this cycle going?

[A.B.]

Well whatever. I don't subscribe to the idea that it takes years to teach players to play in a certain way though.

Wtf did you expect in 4 months? Rome wasn't built in a day.

[ivor_the_injun]

How about progress? Are you telling me that the last couple of games have shown you that we're actually closer to the realisation of this vision than the first couple of games that Rafa was in charge for? I'll have to be honest, I'm honestly not seeing it. Glimpses yes, but I'm seeing more sideways movement than forward movement with LFC at the moment.

And okay, if Everton and Middlebrough aren't acceptable comparisons in terms of what can be achieved with new personnel in a short space of time, how does Chelsea's season so far fit in with the idea that change of personnel and tactics has to take the better part of a season?

Have you lot been brainwashed completely by Houllier's talk of a five year plan? New good players + good training and tactics should not = a wasted season. I'm just getting bored of hearing about all this talk of "hope" and "potential", and I'm starting to think more along the lines of getting the team to be proactive about actually getting round to doing something that we'll be proud of.

[The_Rock]

Its imperative that we qualify for the champions league. We can only buy players if we qualify every season (what with the new stadium and all).

I am sure rafa would change the whole squad bar gerrard, alonso & baros if he could. Where is morgan and his 300 million pounds when you need him 

[A.B.]

The reality is that things will not happen over night. Kewell is in a program that will supposedly help his fitness but we will not see the results anytime soon.

Spaniards are losing their form as the season progresses?

Xabi Alonso has had two bad games. Today and against Chelsea, he was superb in every other game that he has played.

Luis Garcia was solid at the begining but he needs to score once again to get back to his form, today he scored a beauty of a goal the downside is that it didn't count.

Our problem today was that most of our players played with no heart,they showed no effort on the pitch.

I'm quite tired of fans writting us off everytime we lose but when we win we are on the top of the world and are expected to win all games in the future.

[The_Rock]

Garcia best position is in the hole behind the front striker. When he plays at the right or as a forward striker, he does not perform as well.  I have no worries about the spanish players. Even josemi played ok today.

But i have lots of problem with kewell & hyppia. Kewell is supposingly our most technically gifted player. hyppia is supposingly a CB who would walk into any team's first 11 (bar chelsea  ) & our captain. If those 2 play like that, who will the team look to provide the spark to lift the team.

In my opinion, having hyppia as a centreback is a liability. It means one of the central midfielders have to do an anchor role & thus the attack suffers. I hope hyppia gets replaced. This was my opinion last season & it still is the same.

Kewell has to get op to fix his knees & ankles.

[A.B.]

How about progress? Are you telling me that the last couple of games have shown you that we're actually closer to the realisation of this vision than the first couple of games that Rafa was in charge for? I'll have to be honest, I'm honestly not seeing it. Glimpses yes, but I'm seeing more sideways movement than forward movement with LFC at the moment.

And okay, if Everton and Middlebrough aren't acceptable comparisons in terms of what can be achieved with new personnel in a short space of time, how does Chelsea's season so far fit in with the idea that change of personnel and tactics has to take the better part of a season?

Have you lot been brainwashed completely by Houllier's talk of a five year plan? New good players + good training and tactics should not = a wasted season. I'm just getting bored of hearing about all this talk of "hope" and "potential", and I'm starting to think more along the lines of getting the team to be proactive about actually getting round to doing something that we'll be proud of.

Watch the game against Fulham over again.

[begintoend]

To me its not really about tactics that are losing us games. Its the players that are able to get the job done or ****** it up.

The players do not play with a consistency in their role for every match. When you want a good team, you gotta have 11 players that are sticking to the role and playing their game right. Lets hope for the players to find this consistency and very soon we'll be up on the hunt again. If this doesn't happen, this season will be depressing for all.

I seriously think that our manager, Benitez is fine and we should be glad that we have such a good resource in LFC. Though many says he inherited Cuper's team, but the fact is Benitez's team is so much different from Cuper's, and those players had his belief in winning games. If the current LFC players are as mentally professionally, it'll make Benitez changes to LFC speedier.

[mynameisred]

Patience is for the virtuous. For the lamen its the tommy k theory. HoHum do we have to have the same conversation about players and consistency everytime we lose a game. We are no longer the team that collects allthe trophies because we lost that winning mentalility and no manager has installed that into our side since at least 1990 (Except the title run in a few seasons ago). Subsequently we have missed out on the commercial growth that has now become associated with the modern game. If anyone thinks that some kind of superman is going to walk into Melwood and cure all that by getting an extra 15% out of the c.rap left by GH you are having a bath mate. Tactics only work if you have the players who can execute the specific ideas the manger wants from them. At the moment I should imagine that this for Rafa is like working with special needs children. I mean no offence I use it as symbolism of the diffuculty that Rafa prob has in getting his message across. Peace.

[bigmick]

Good post that Red. GH and his 'legacy' eh? sad thing is, the bloke actually believes it. Amazing.

[mynameisred]

Finally someone got my name right, my name is red not mynameisred. Know what I mean.