Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

starting lineup ?
No
Squad ?
Yes

We still have Riera, Maxi and (Babel) as wide players available for games,
We have Kuyt, Ngog and (Babel) as Forwards
Down the middle we have Aquilani, Lucas and Mascherano

I think it's the perfect time for Rafa to switch his formation and tactics and use the injuries as the perfect excuse. With no Torres, and more importantly no Gerrard, theres absolutely no reason for us to be playing only 1 upfront ! All the forwards we have are nowhere near clinical finishers and they'll always struggle if isolated and up against premierleague level defenders..

4-4-2 all the way for me,

Maxi          Mascherano          Aquilani           Riera

                     Kuyt               Babel

With Babel, Ngog and Pacheco as subs...

But why would you include Kuyt or Babel instead of Pacheco?

Kuyt's having one of his worst spells at the club and Babel is Babel.

As someone who bemoans Kuyt's lack of talent and Rafa's persistent use of him (not saying you're wrong on that count), surely Pacheco - a bit of a trickster who can produce something out of nothing, a player who possesses real goal threat and that 'dribbling' skill you've been so eager to see - surely he would be the better option to start with?

Wouldnt start him against a side like Stoke where we need to get back to basics and just tactically outplay them .. The side is lacking confidence and we certainly wont be matching them for effort and workrate with or without Pacheco.. I think atm with the injuries we have, we'll need to look at the senior players in the club and ask more of them. Kuyt is certainly one of few we have who can nick a goal or take a ridiculous shot in hope of a deflected goal or so.. Tactically, he's better than most of our other players and i'm sure the manager will be giving very specific instructions to all the players going out there...

Babel is just a curious case... I think the guy has talent, but i dont think the manager, and more importantly himself, have been able to channel it towards the better of the team... In preseason he was arguably one of our better players, playing as a forward alongside Ngog in most games.. He has the ability to do something special with the ball at times, but he hasnt been able to express himself lately for a number of reasons. I think with players like Gerrard and Torres out of the side, its a great chance for Babel to go out there and show what hes capable of. Personally, i think the over-dependence on Torres and Gerrard has had a detrimental effect on some of our other attacking talent in recent times. For me, its a good chance for the kid to either prove his worth to the manager, or for them both to just realize that hes never going to make it in this club..

Pacheco i've seen a few times for the reserves and when hes come on as a sub and in friendlies, hes got talent but he seems to give the ball away alot. Im not sure what his position on the pitch is, but my guess is that the only position the manager would consider playing him is as a second striker playing behind someone. Personally, i wouldnt even consider a 4-5-1 at the time being.. 4-4-2, try to get as much width as possible and keep it simple.. As is said in the other thread, despite what Rafa  keeps stressing in regards to working hard and training hard, we wont be matching them for effort, we just need to make sure that our quality shows and ultimately counts for something...

[sixbuster]

He needs to play and more importantly we need him to play. We need to change/try something new, it cannot be any worse than what we are currently experiencing. Give the lad and our season a chance Rafa, please give him a break.

[redbeergoggles]

I think the inclusion of Pacheco in the Liverpool squad for Stoke is a must ,plus I wouldn't mind seeing David Amoo involved ,I think he would scare the life out of teams with his direct running .

[LFC2007]

Wouldnt start him against a side like Stoke where we need to get back to basics and just tactically outplay them .. The side is lacking confidence and we certainly wont be matching them for effort and workrate with or without Pacheco.. I think atm with the injuries we have, we'll need to look at the senior players in the club and ask more of them. Kuyt is certainly one of few we have who can nick a goal or take a ridiculous shot in hope of a deflected goal or so.. Tactically, he's better than most of our other players and i'm sure the manager will be giving very specific instructions to all the players going out there...

Babel is just a curious case... I think the guy has talent, but i dont think the manager, and more importantly himself, have been able to channel it towards the better of the team... In preseason he was arguably one of our better players, playing as a forward alongside Ngog in most games.. He has the ability to do something special with the ball at times, but he hasnt been able to express himself lately for a number of reasons. I think with players like Gerrard and Torres out of the side, its a great chance for Babel to go out there and show what hes capable of. Personally, i think the over-dependence on Torres and Gerrard has had a detrimental effect on some of our other attacking talent in recent times. For me, its a good chance for the kid to either prove his worth to the manager, or for them both to just realize that hes never going to make it in this club..

Pacheco i've seen a few times for the reserves and when hes come on as a sub and in friendlies, hes got talent but he seems to give the ball away alot. Im not sure what his position on the pitch is, but my guess is that the only position the manager would consider playing him is as a second striker playing behind someone. Personally, i wouldnt even consider a 4-5-1 at the time being.. 4-4-2, try to get as much width as possible and keep it simple.. As is said in the other thread, despite what Rafa  keeps stressing in regards to working hard and training hard, we wont be matching them for effort, we just need to make sure that our quality shows and ultimately counts for something...

I suppose the question depends on a couple things.

1) How highly you rate Pacheco.

2) How highly you rate Babel, Kuyt and Ngog.

I think Pacheco is better than all three right now (different types but better all the same), let alone further down the line.

[aCe']

Wouldnt start him against a side like Stoke where we need to get back to basics and just tactically outplay them .. The side is lacking confidence and we certainly wont be matching them for effort and workrate with or without Pacheco.. I think atm with the injuries we have, we'll need to look at the senior players in the club and ask more of them. Kuyt is certainly one of few we have who can nick a goal or take a ridiculous shot in hope of a deflected goal or so.. Tactically, he's better than most of our other players and i'm sure the manager will be giving very specific instructions to all the players going out there...

Babel is just a curious case... I think the guy has talent, but i dont think the manager, and more importantly himself, have been able to channel it towards the better of the team... In preseason he was arguably one of our better players, playing as a forward alongside Ngog in most games.. He has the ability to do something special with the ball at times, but he hasnt been able to express himself lately for a number of reasons. I think with players like Gerrard and Torres out of the side, its a great chance for Babel to go out there and show what hes capable of. Personally, i think the over-dependence on Torres and Gerrard has had a detrimental effect on some of our other attacking talent in recent times. For me, its a good chance for the kid to either prove his worth to the manager, or for them both to just realize that hes never going to make it in this club..

Pacheco i've seen a few times for the reserves and when hes come on as a sub and in friendlies, hes got talent but he seems to give the ball away alot. Im not sure what his position on the pitch is, but my guess is that the only position the manager would consider playing him is as a second striker playing behind someone. Personally, i wouldnt even consider a 4-5-1 at the time being.. 4-4-2, try to get as much width as possible and keep it simple.. As is said in the other thread, despite what Rafa  keeps stressing in regards to working hard and training hard, we wont be matching them for effort, we just need to make sure that our quality shows and ultimately counts for something...

I suppose the question depends on a couple things.

1) How highly you rate Pacheco.

2) How highly you rate Babel, Kuyt and Ngog.

I think Pacheco is better than all three right now (different types but better all the same), let alone further down the line.

TBH, I havent seen enough of Pacheco to say that hes better than Kuyt, Babel or even Ngog... All three are far from favorites of mine but i know what they are capable of and i believe between them they have enough to make an impact against a side like Stoke.

Maybe you've seen more of Pacheco than i have, but from what i've seen of him, and compared to the likes of Kuyt and Babel, i dont think he'd offer much more than the other 3 would.

My point i guess is that the formation we play, doesnt really bring out the best in the likes of Kuyt, Babel and even Ngog...

Kuyt imo can do with being relieved of all sorts of creative duties.. Just play him upfront and ask him to get on the end of things.. He was a prolific striker with a good scoring ratio in Holland before he moved, so given the injury situation he might be our best option upfront atm..

Babel was signed as a forward. Never given the opportunity to play the position though.. Usually played down the left flank, i'd say about 50% of his game is negated because of that. Cant run at people unless he cuts inside.. Never has the opportunity to use his pace to go past a defender or to attack the byline when played down the left simply because his left foot is shiit ! More often than not when played down the left he needs to come deep to receive the ball; he doesnt have the best first touch and again, he often needs to take that extra touch to even provide the pass inside.. Doesnt offer any sort of width or balance to the side...

Ngog to me has shown some potential when given the chance.. Back to preseason again, Always looked more comfortable playing alongside someone rather than as a lone striker... He works the channels well and has a decent touch imo.. Hasnt benefited much from playing the lone striker role while having players like Kuyt and Aurelio playing down the flanks behind him..

Again, i would love to see Pacheco coming off the bench and proving his quality and worth as soon as possible, i just cant see him starting this game though... Our injury situation is bad, but not that drastic yet imo... Remember we have Maxi now and Riera is supposedly fit again so that gives us plenty of options in midfield... Dont think Pacheco does or honestly should figure highly in Rafas plan A for the next couple of games given the importance of the games and his lack of experience

[Fowler_E7]

i say give him a go, i mean why not? we have nothing to lose now, and a young enthusiastic player with no fear and everything to prove could liven the team up and give everybody a lift. Like others have said he cant do any worse than the trash the other players have produced recently and from his form for the reserves he deserves his chance in the first team, at least from the bench.

[alxy]

You're comparing Messi with Pacheco ?
What planet are you on ? Have you even SEEN Pacheco play ?
Ya muppet....

In terms of size, yes. In terms of skills, obviously at the moment they're light years apart, but potential wise, you never know. Though at Liverpool, I think that youngsters somehow never get that opportunity to grow into the players they could have become. Why can't our youth system be more like Arsenals's?

[maguskwt]

Surely now is the time to give talented youngsters like Pacheco a chance and at the same time give them some confidence and also some freshness to the team. It's like killing 2 birds with one stone.

Also I didn't even know we have this guy in our reserves,Christopher Buchtmann. Seems like a talented winger who crosses and passes well and probably should be included in the squad as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb9wms4ZQ9I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI6Hos7Xdfw

He probably is a better corner taker than any of our first teamers 

[tubby]

Surely now is the time to give talented youngsters like Pacheco a chance and at the same time give them some confidence and also some freshness to the team. It's like killing 2 birds with one stone.

Also I didn't even know we have this guy in our reserves,Christopher Buchtmann. Seems like a talented winger who crosses and passes well and probably should be included in the squad as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb9wms4ZQ9I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI6Hos7Xdfw

He probably is a better corner taker than any of our first teamers 

Stevies corners are poor at times it has to be said.

On Pacheco id love to see more of him. I want to see if he can handle the physical side more than anything. His play seems to constist of deft touches here and there kind of like Luis Garcia so I can see how he could be muscled of the ball ect... He does like to make dinky runs though, seems very skillful.

And he can take a free kick.

[Rush Job]

In Pacheco, Amoo and Eccleston we have 3 very talented forward youngsters. You could add dalla valle(sp) to that too.
Maybe a little youthfull exuberance upfront could be the kickstart we need?
Is Nemeth still on loan or is he back now?

[damjan193]

Well since we have a RM now, I think it would be better not to play him.I just cant see him insted of Kuyt or even Babel.Kid's too young, unexperienced and can hardly do any better than the players that are in our starting 11 now.But, then again, we do play really bad so changes are needed.Still... cant see Pachecho do any diference plus, we have a RM now so we should wait and see what will happen.Havent seen much of Pachecho, mostly I know him by reputation, good, fast, talented and great free kick taker, but I dont think that he could help us now.

[LFC2007]

When do 19-year-old wonderkids get their opportunities then?

[damjan193]

Is Nemeth still on loan or is he back now?

I think he's back.I'd always play him rather than N'Gog.

[JC_81]

I don't think Stoke away was a game to play Pacheco in at this stage.  Physically he'd have struggled and defensively we'd have been weaker for it.

He has to start getting game time at home though if this kid is going to develop into the player we think he can.  Not necessarily from the start but certainly from the bench.

[LFC2007]

I don't know. Any (or that much) weaker than Lucas or Aquilani?

I think we could have used him, if not from the start then certainly later in the game.