Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

Taff, in the northern hemisphere we now have the  six nations , picking up on your point about improvement for the lesser nations , do you think it would be a good idea for the "Tri Nations" to allow the likes of Argentina, Samoa, Japan etc into their competition ?

And what the f'uck happened to Rumania  is it my imagination but didn't they once have a team that was superior to anything the Italians had to offer ?

Argentina in a 7 nations based in Spain would no doubt be great for the development of the Argentinian team but would be less good for the development of rugby in Argentina. In fact it might have an adverse effect as the national team will (might) play less games at home. Thus the public would be less exposed to rugby. 

It makes more sense to open up the tri-nations to Fiji, Tonga and Samoa (or a Pacific Islanders team) but the ABs will hate to see the loss of their feeder nations.  It would never happen.

Even on flight logistics and human physiology, I would imagine it is easier to go from Europe to Arg than Aus, NZ or SA to Arg.

[taff]

Taff, in the northern hemisphere we now have the  six nations , picking up on your point about improvement for the lesser nations , do you think it would be a good idea for the "Tri Nations" to allow the likes of Argentina, Samoa, Japan etc into their competition ?

And what the f'uck happened to Rumania  is it my imagination but didn't they once have a team that was superior to anything the Italians had to offer ?

I think the Tri Nations should expand as they play each other twice anyway and should definitely include Argentina and the Island nations, but thats for Fox and the big three Im afraid.

I like the sound of the two tier world cup, giving a chance for the lesser nations to play each other.

Personally I would make all the six nations teams have one friendly against the lesser nations such as Georgia and Romania, Portugal etc.  Speaking as a Welshman I would play these countries to blood young talent rather than a full team giving them a thumping.

The improvement is down to a lot of these countries having full or part time professionals in the English French and Celtic Leagues.  Its a shame that the Pacific Islanders play in England rather than face pressure to change nationalities in NZ and Australia if they are up to it.

With Romania, Caucescu loved the game and made it a national sport but after his demise the team who were more or less full time, suffered with the economic collapse of their country. They were good but lacked match experience as they werent part of the five nations although they did beat Wales in 1988 which led to crazy criticism of jonathan davies who eventually had enough and went up North.

You get rugby fans all over the place in weird situations.  Che Guevara had a thing about Wales as he was a keen rugby fan and Wales had deprived Industrial areas and was/is a hotbed for socialism but the played the game with style.  Che was also a outside half which is a Welsh obsession.

[Grimly Fiendish]

Check out the Tongan number 8??

Afrotastic!

[The Ace1983]

Commiserations for the Irish. Argentina are looking like a top draw side. Still, from a Scottish perspective, bring on the Pumas! No-one fights harder than the underdog and that suits us just fine.

[fivecups]

Gutted. Such an anticlimax. Wait for the post mortem of all post mortems tommorrow.

[woof woof !]

Watched both the Wales and Ireland games over the weekend. The Wales ,Fiji game was an absolute cracker , felt a bit sorry for Wales but well done Fiji.

Argentina's win over the Irish while not totally surprising was very unexpected in it's size and nature. Ireland couldn't seem to kick a decent ball into touch and I lost count of the number of times they got turned over by Argentina, every time an Irish fella went to ground with the ball an Argentinian came up holding it.
Argentina well worth their win.

[66-1112520797]

What's happened to the mighty Irish who were convinced they could go all the way ?

I think they were over hyped.

[The Ace1983]

This world cup has really highlighted two things for me. 1st, the southern hemosphere is miles ahead of the northern in terms of quality and dedication to the sport. I can't see a european team making the semis. England and France will have to pull off something spectacular to reach the last four, and although Scotland can beat Argentina on ther day, the Pumas are in rare form at the moment and impressing with every performance.
And Argentina prove the second point. Countries that we still think of as "emerging nations" in the game are of a much higher standard than they have been in previous tournaments. Fiji and Tonga who have been involved for a while, but always seen in a second string, have really pulled their socks up. Also Georgia, Canada and Japan, though completely unsuccessful weren't always the pushovers that everyone thought they would be. It can only be good for rugby really. The more nations who impress, the more games we'll see and with it, more quality over time.
As for the state of the northern teams, they all seem to have their problems at the moment. For England, they just look like a lot of old men at the moment. There are young ones but the average age is too old and some of the senior members seem to have lost their hunger. Scotland seem naive, France old fashioned, Ireland and Wales are both a bit short on ideas. But these things go in circles and I dare say the boards of these organisations can now use the time after this tournament to change things a bit and prepare for the next tournament.

[Big Niall]

What's happened to the mighty Irish who were convinced they could go all the way ?

I think they were over hyped.

We won the triple crown for third time in 4 years, beat Australia, beat South Africa, and deserved to be among the favourites.

We went to the tournament to win it.

Don't know what went wrong, too reliant on O'Gara who seems to have let personal problems affect his game, he was terrible.

[JBG]

The Irish performance again was abysmal, there will be major repercussions when the squad gets home. This was supposed to have been Ireland's "Golden Generation" of players, on paper it was one of the strongest squads going in to the tournament, in practice it was one of the weakest.

Terrible stuff.

[taff]

Well done Fiji is all I really want to say.  I am gutted obviously but the style they played and the dignity they had at the end in victory was superb and good luck to them.

The only good thing I can see for Wales is not the coach being sacked but an overwhelming feeling that the people who run the game have to change and the jealousy and infighting which we manage to excel in has to stop.

The debate on BBC  Wales last night was refreshing as its the first time the game administrators have been so openly attacked and the audience cheering this while nobody is crying for the coach we feel empty because who would take a job which has extreme pressure and is such a rollercoaster ride.

Still I hope England and France do well because the North needs it.  And I can see Scotland progressing to the semis which would be superb for them as they have had a torrid time lately.

Well done Fiji

[woof woof !]

What's happened to the mighty Irish who were convinced they could go all the way ?

I think they were over hyped.

We won the triple crown for third time in 4 years, beat Australia, beat South Africa, and deserved to be among the favourites.

We went to the tournament to win it.

Don't know what went wrong, too reliant on O'Gara who seems to have let personal problems affect his game, he was terrible.

I only watch the big tournaments so can't claim to be an expert but I was shocked at how Argentina apparently kept taking the ball away from Irish possession .Also couldn't believe that Ireland didn't have a fella who could find touch when it mattered.

Not an expert like I said but Ireland certainly seem to have gone backwards in a very short space of time.

[taff]

Something has happened in the camp and we might never know or will find out after the tournament has finished or the coach has left which he doesnt seem to want to.

I was shocked by Ireland as they looked the strongest of the home nations and am intrigued by what has gone wrong.

[JBG]

I was shocked by Ireland as they looked the strongest of the home nations and am intrigued by what has gone wrong.

Except that we are most definitely not a "home nation".   

[Raoul]

Well, haven't been in gen chat for a long while and only just saw this.

I see the haka is getting a bit of stick.  I understand what people from other countries think - why are a bunch of white guys doing a Maori war dance?  The problem is that non-NZers:

1. believe the haka is just a Maori thing.
2. seem to think that because white NZers are white that they are European.

Firstly, a haka is no longer just a Maori dance.  As a Pakeha (white NZer), watching and performing haka is an act filled with more meaning than singing my national anthem (the meaning of which I love).  I've had the opportunity to perform a haka overseas a couple of times, and it was not a cheap party trick.  The first time, I was honouring our audience by sharing a part of MY culture with them as a way of saying thanks for their hospitality and care, the second I was celebrating my brotherhood with fellow NZers with no audience at all. Both events still rate as some of the most meaning-filled moments of my life.

Secondly, I am not European.  I am a NZer.  I might look like my Irish/English/and wherever else they were from ancestors, and I owe an awful lot of my culture to them, but I see myself as a child of the Pacific more than I do Europe.  To say that it doesn't make sense for a European to dance a haka is completely true.  But, I am not European, I am Pakeha.

Not every NZer would agree with my sentiments (some older NZers very closely identify with Great Britian rather than the Pacific, and some Maori would say I don't have the right to claim the haka as my own), but I think many NZers would basically go along with this.

As to whether the ABs should be allowed to do the haka, well, my completely unbiased, objective view is that international rugby would be all the poorer if NZ and the Pacific nations were not allowed to perform what has become a special tradition.  If anyone has seen the French flanker Chabal (I think his nickname is Caveman) facing up to the haka you'll know what I mean - tell me this doesn't make rugby special!

And we'll all agree that the ABs are chokers, we all go to bed at night wondering which French team will turn up on the weekend (the rubbish one or the one that is simply unplayable) and yet we all expect Webb Ellis to finally come back home where he belongs.

My picks for the weekend:

The Wallabies will beat England, unconvincingly, followed by plenty of whinging from both camps.
The ABs will finally put to bed all our fears and stuff, bast and roast the French.
The Springboks will be too good for the Fijians (yawn) but hopefully there will be plenty of good hits and cracked ribs.
The Pumas will do to Scotland just what they did to Ireland.

It'll lead to an all too predictable NZ v SA final, with the only truly unpredictable things about the whole RWC being France not being in the final, the Argentinian rugby revival and NZ finally not choking.  One day the rich unions will look beyond their self interest and work to make rugby a game played well by more than about 5 countries, but not this World Cup, nor probably the next...