Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

Yes, but America seems to have a culture of sport purely based in and around America. The sports you mention are almost exclusively American and played in America, in Britain we share competitions with Europe and the rest of the world.

Not really. You seem to like games to play over a pitch. You ride well horses, you have good football, you do have that thing called cricket, then that other sport that you ride a horse and give a ball with a hammer, and you have good athletes too.

But in the sports that are done under a roof, and that's something that always surprised me because it rains a lot, you don't care at all: Waterpolo? Basketball? Handball? Volley-ball? every sport played in-door, you're not interested for some reason I don't know.

I don't fully understand your point Sabre because what you say is simply not true.

We do play all the sports you have mentioned, we have quite a strong Basketball fanbase here, it is played in schools along with netball, waterpolo is also played here, as is volleyball, as is softball, as is indoor hockey. So that's just not true.

[Bad Bob]

Yes, but America seems to have a culture of sport purely based in and around America. The sports you mention are almost exclusively American and played in America, in Britain we share competitions with Europe and the rest of the world.

Not really. You seem to like games to play over a pitch. You ride well horses, you have good football, you do have that thing called cricket, then that other sport that you ride a horse and give a ball with a hammer, and you have good athletes too.

But in the sports that are done under a roof, and that's something that always surprised me because it rains a lot, you don't care at all: Waterpolo? Basketball? Handball? Volley-ball? every sport played in-door, you're not interested for some reason I don't know.

I don't fully understand your point Sabre because what you say is simply not true.

We do play all the sports you have mentioned, we have quite a strong Basketball fanbase here, it is played in schools along with netball, waterpolo is also played here, as is volleyball, as is softball, as is indoor hockey. So that's just not true.

Well, if we're talking about sports people--especially kids--actually play that's a whole different issue.  In that case, "soccer" is a very popular sport in both the U.S. and Canada.  You wouldn't know it by tv coverage but it is.  Rugby's bigger than you might think as well.

[66-1112520797]

you do get those that are exclusively football people, and most of us have a main sport that interests them,

I obviously couldn't be "entirely wrong"

Although most people in America can pick their favorite sport the breakdown is much more even like 40% NFL, 35% NBA 25% Baseball.  But most Americans are even more diverse than that. I would have to say my personal Breakdown would be

NFL- 20%
College Football - 19%
European Football - 17%
College Basketball - 14%
Baseball - 11%
NBA - 8%
College Lacrosse - 4%
Golf - 3%
MLS -2%
(NHL, NASCAR, Boxing, Olympics) - 2%

Yes, but America seems to have a culture of sport purely based in and around America. The sports you mention are almost exclusively American and played in America, in Britain we share competitions with Europe and the rest of the world. Something I think America lacks. Sport begins and ends in America.

Yes, that may be possibly true. But it doesnt mean their not diverse through their own sports. Which was the original question Joe asked, in comparison to English sport fans.

[JoeTerp]

NFL however , despite the athletic ability of the players involved is less about individual ability and vision and more about strategic planning . It is essentially four hours of dead ball situations. Basically give the ball to the quarterback and he throws it to a receiver who then legs it towards the end zone.

It would be a gross understatement to diminish the game to a throw and catch between quarterback and wide receiver.  Similar to thinking that only the players who score goals matter in football.  The lineman as a unit have a better ability to dictate the pace of the game by forcing their strength and will on the other team. and games usually last only 3 hours not 4.

[Sabre]

Yes, but America seems to have a culture of sport purely based in and around America. The sports you mention are almost exclusively American and played in America, in Britain we share competitions with Europe and the rest of the world.

Not really. You seem to like games to play over a pitch. You ride well horses, you have good football, you do have that thing called cricket, then that other sport that you ride a horse and give a ball with a hammer, and you have good athletes too.

But in the sports that are done under a roof, and that's something that always surprised me because it rains a lot, you don't care at all: Waterpolo? Basketball? Handball? Volley-ball? every sport played in-door, you're not interested for some reason I don't know.

I don't fully understand your point Sabre because what you say is simply not true.

We do play all the sports you have mentioned, we have quite a strong Basketball fanbase here, it is played in schools along with netball, waterpolo is also played here, as is volleyball, as is softball, as is indoor hockey. So that's just not true.

I think UK would be strong in every sport they really focused on, because they have a large population. So I guessed that if UK never had a strong basketball team, it's because that sport is not played enough (and thus it's leagues has no strenght nor big fans)

But I'm wrong apparently.

[LFC2007]

Yes, but America seems to have a culture of sport purely based in and around America. The sports you mention are almost exclusively American and played in America, in Britain we share competitions with Europe and the rest of the world.

Not really. You seem to like games to play over a pitch. You ride well horses, you have good football, you do have that thing called cricket, then that other sport that you ride a horse and give a ball with a hammer, and you have good athletes too.

But in the sports that are done under a roof, and that's something that always surprised me because it rains a lot, you don't care at all: Waterpolo? Basketball? Handball? Volley-ball? every sport played in-door, you're not interested for some reason I don't know.

I don't fully understand your point Sabre because what you say is simply not true.

We do play all the sports you have mentioned, we have quite a strong Basketball fanbase here, it is played in schools along with netball, waterpolo is also played here, as is volleyball, as is softball, as is indoor hockey. So that's just not true.

Well, if we're talking about sports people--especially kids--actually play that's a whole different issue.  In that case, "soccer" is a very popular sport in both the U.S. and Canada.  You wouldn't know it by tv coverage but it is.  Rugby's bigger than you might think as well.

Having been to America on several occasions and Canada twice, I'm well aware of that Bob, but it seems as though the commercial dominance of the major U.S. sports creates an isolationist attitude to sport in general. I would also point out that three of the four golfing majors are held in America with one in the U.K. The reasons for this are historical but it is more evidence of how America needs to engage more IN and with other countries in terms of sport. These are some of the reasons why we are seeing the NFL coming to places like London, to exhibit their sport on the world stage.

At a certain age most of these kids will take a greater interest in one of the other major U.S. sports because of this.

In Britain, it is completely different, we share cricket with the Sub-continent, South Africa, New Zealand,Austrlia, Europe, central Africa etc... We also share Rugby Union in a big way with many other countries across the world. I think this is siomething that America lack to a degree.The same applies to Formula 1.

Bamaga, I never said they were NOT diverse in their own sports I am pointing out the internal isolationist attitude toward sport that exists in PARTS of America. I am also pointing out that people in Britain generally don't just take an interest in ONE sport, there are a wider range of sports, like I pointed out earlier, that people take interests in. In comparison to British sports fans, I think some American fans can be ignorant of other sports that take place in the international arena. I don't take a fervent interest in major American sports but I try to understand their game and try to get into them as much as I can. Although I am not categorising every American sports fan under this bracket, like Joe, for example takes a wider interest in football. But, I have friends and relatives in the U.S. who I visits quite regularly and even they agree that it is something American's could do more to improve. Just to provide another example, I sometimes travel to watch Wales play in the RBS six nations, I've been to Rome twice a few years back now and the Stade de France also to see them play along with my dad and a mate. I love the fact we can go to other countries, even as far as Australia and much of the southern hemisphere to watch Rugby, and in doing so sharing this common interest in the sport with the locals over a pint. This is something America does not have the liberty to do, maybe geography has a part to play, but on the whole, if you see the Lions playing in Australia or England playing in an ashes series in Australia, there'll be a sh!t load of Brits travelling over to go and watch. This is what I am trying to emphasise, and why I am so glad for the range of sports and common interest in sports we share with so many other countries.


Sabre, as for Basketball, it is a sport with a niche interest here in the U.K. and it is still a fairly big amongst certain people, we have our own league and teams from across the country. It was a sport that grew quite rapidly in the 1990's with crowds of 10,000 or so but in recent years there has been a decline due to the collapse of ITV digital and a subsequent lack of funding, but it is played in shools, and it is not uncommon to see people playing it on the streets in certain areas. In Spain it is a bigger sport, people take a greater interest in it there, but it is still a very well organised and there is a fair amount of interest in it over here aswell. You only have to look at that new NBA guy who came from Britain to see how well he is doing to understand that pepole her do take an interest in it.

[66-1112520797]

LFC2007 Believe it or not I actually agree with what your saying. My Opinion and its probably wrong or "politically incorrect". America or Americans have always given me the impression the world ends beyond their borders.

I dont think they participate in nearly as much stuff as they could, they've only recently really jumped on the soccer bandwagon. At a fairly decent level, a bit like Australia. I think they've been blown away by the sport in terms of the global recognition it gets.

TBH American sports dont interest me in the slightest, and they can have em.   Too much Razz ma tazz and all that, too American.

[Bad Bob]

No need to really convince me either, mate.  Being from Canada, I'm well versed in American navel-gazing and a shocking apathy towards things going on beyond their own borders (sorry Joe).  My point is that I think that the sporting culture in the U.S. is pretty much saturated with domestic leagues.  With American football, baseball, basketball, nascar and, to a lesser extent, hockey on constantly, there's not a lot of room for footy, rugby, cricket or other world sports...particularly ones that are played half-way round the planet and don't cater to either the viewing schedules of the American audience (do to major time differences) nor to the needs of American advertisers (not enough stoppages to squeeze in the adverts).  Having said that, Americans do enjoy watching golf and tennis and will tune in when these sports are televised from elsewhere in the world.

I guess my question would be, do you really want Americans to take that much of an interest in the sports you care about?  Can you imagine what pressures would be placed on say "soccer" if Sky, for instance, had to appeal to a mass American audience?  People are already p!ssed off with noon kick-offs and Sunday matches to accommodate Sky and the other broadcasters.  How would you feel about 6PM kick-offs on a Saturday to accommodate U.S. viewers?  Or, midweek CL games kicking off at midnight GMTto ensure that viewers on the US east coast would be home from work first?  Canadians, after all, are still bitter about what Fox did with their hockey coverage a decade ago when they decided to mass market the games to Americans.  Games started by played on Sunday afternoons rather than Saturday nights to accommodate the network and they started adding crazy special effects like producing pink 'vapour trails' behind the puck so that viewers could follow it more easily.  It was a bloody farce!

[LFC2007]

No need to really convince me either, mate.  Being from Canada, I'm well versed in American navel-gazing and a shocking apathy towards things going on beyond their own borders (sorry Joe).  My point is that I think that the sporting culture in the U.S. is pretty much saturated with domestic leagues.  With American football, baseball, basketball, nascar and, to a lesser extent, hockey on constantly, there's not a lot of room for footy, rugby, cricket or other world sports...particularly ones that are played half-way round the planet and don't cater to either the viewing schedules of the American audience (do to major time differences) nor to the needs of American advertisers (not enough stoppages to squeeze in the adverts).  Having said that, Americans do enjoy watching golf and tennis and will tune in when these sports are televised from elsewhere in the world.

I guess my question would be, do you really want Americans to take that much of an interest in the sports you care about?  Can you imagine what pressures would be placed on say "soccer" if Sky, for instance, had to appeal to a mass American audience?  People are already p!ssed off with noon kick-offs and Sunday matches to accommodate Sky and the other broadcasters.  How would you feel about 6PM kick-offs on a Saturday to accommodate U.S. viewers?  Or, midweek CL games kicking off at midnight GMTto ensure that viewers on the US east coast would be home from work first?  Canadians, after all, are still bitter about what Fox did with their hockey coverage a decade ago when they decided to mass market the games to Americans.  Games started by played on Sunday afternoons rather than Saturday nights to accommodate the network and they started adding crazy special effects like producing pink 'vapour trails' behind the puck so that viewers could follow it more easily.  It was a bloody farce!

That's a good point Mick, I think a big American interest in Association football would damage the exploits of the european game. The propensity to which they could dominate the sport is something I don't think anyone wants, financially Europe would be unable to compete, and as for TV scheduling, could you imagine the uproar! Football is our main sport, to see the U.S. domiate and control it would create resentment. Although I must say, this is highly unlikely.

[JoeTerp]

to be fair, its a lot easier for Europeans to say that their sports are more international.  All of the countries are a lot smaller and closer together than over here in North America.  Its hard for Americans to get into the more Euro sports because for the most part people only like to watch a sport where they can see the best of the best compete (big reason why football isnt as big here) and because of the time difference and TV nobody ever gets to see rugby or cricket therefore there is no interest in it, and because there hardly any interest for it its not worth it for TV channels to put it on.  Coupled with the fact that we have lots of our own sports for each season already in this country, and its a cycle that naturally moves more and more towards our own sports. 
Also, just because cricket and rugby and other euro sports aren't big here doesn't mean we aren't internationally diverse in our sports. For example there are almost as many Central American players in Major League baseball as there are US citizens, and the NBA is becoming more and more international every year.  the MVP the last three years has been a white international Steve Nash - Canada twice and Dirk Nowitzki - Germany

[Bad Bob]

No need to really convince me either, mate.  Being from Canada, I'm well versed in American navel-gazing and a shocking apathy towards things going on beyond their own borders (sorry Joe).  My point is that I think that the sporting culture in the U.S. is pretty much saturated with domestic leagues.  With American football, baseball, basketball, nascar and, to a lesser extent, hockey on constantly, there's not a lot of room for footy, rugby, cricket or other world sports...particularly ones that are played half-way round the planet and don't cater to either the viewing schedules of the American audience (do to major time differences) nor to the needs of American advertisers (not enough stoppages to squeeze in the adverts).  Having said that, Americans do enjoy watching golf and tennis and will tune in when these sports are televised from elsewhere in the world.

I guess my question would be, do you really want Americans to take that much of an interest in the sports you care about?  Can you imagine what pressures would be placed on say "soccer" if Sky, for instance, had to appeal to a mass American audience?  People are already p!ssed off with noon kick-offs and Sunday matches to accommodate Sky and the other broadcasters.  How would you feel about 6PM kick-offs on a Saturday to accommodate U.S. viewers?  Or, midweek CL games kicking off at midnight GMTto ensure that viewers on the US east coast would be home from work first?  Canadians, after all, are still bitter about what Fox did with their hockey coverage a decade ago when they decided to mass market the games to Americans.  Games started by played on Sunday afternoons rather than Saturday nights to accommodate the network and they started adding crazy special effects like producing pink 'vapour trails' behind the puck so that viewers could follow it more easily.  It was a bloody farce!

That's a good point Mick,

[Bad Bob]

Its hard for Americans to get into the more Euro sports because for the most part people only like to watch a sport where they can see the best of the best compete (big reason why football isnt as big here)

I know what you're saying, mate, but just to be clear: you mean many Americans can't get into "soccer" because the level of talent in the (U.S.-based) MLS is much lower than that found in the European (or South American) leagues.  If the best are all playing in Europe--and if you can only see those European games on speciality sports channels at somewhat awkward times of day--why would you watch the MLS?  The same applies with watching American football in Canada.  There's a minority of die-hard CFL supporters but most Canadian football (pointy ball) fans prefer to watch the NFL because that's where the talent is.  (The CFL is a handful of Canadian players surrounded by NFL cast-offs).

[Sabre]

Its hard for Americans to get into the more Euro sports because for the most part people only like to watch a sport where they can see the best of the best compete (big reason why football isnt as big here)

I know what you're saying, mate, but just to be clear: you mean many Americans can't get into "soccer" because the level of talent in the (U.S.-based) MLS is much lower than that found in the European (or South American) leagues.  If the best are all playing in Europe--and if you can only see those European games on speciality sports channels at somewhat awkward times of day--why would you watch the MLS?  The same applies with watching American football in Canada.  There's a minority of die-hard CFL supporters but most Canadian football (pointy ball) fans prefer to watch the NFL because that's where the talent is.  (The CFL is a handful of Canadian players surrounded by NFL cast-offs).

Because when you like a lot a game, talent is not that important.

Plus, it's the only way one day that sport will be great.

Look at the division two in English football. Go to a Stadium, and see the fans there. Last year or two years ago we had here a guest from Burnley FC. He was telling us that he was happy because after some years they eventually had 2 or 3 good youngsters. That lad I'm sure he appreciates LFC's quality too!! we all like good football!! but when you really like a game you can get hooked to minor clubs aswell, even in the conference league.

That's why I tend to say that in England there are true fans, because there's not only good crowds in the top league, also in the minor ones.

[LFC2007]

I agree with you in so far as the time differences and geographical location makes it more difficult for other sports to get a look in. Financially it is unfeasible for U.S. TV stations to show these sports, hence why the cycle is predominantly internal.

But we have a connection with Europe and the rest of the world that America lacks, the MLS has central American players in it because they are better than many of your homegrown players, it is a close and feasible source of good players.

You don't see the American national teams playing teams from all over the world like you do with say football, rugby or cricket in international and club tournaments like we do, e.g. the champions league, the ashes, Heineken cup, European challenge cup, Lions tour, RBS six nations, world series cricket, cricket world cup, rugby world cup, football world cup, Formual 1.

There is an interest in NBA in the far east and parts of Europe, but nowhere near as much as football. The same applies to hockey, it is also big in esatern european countries, but the interaction with America is limited, you don't see teams from Slovakia playing teams from America because the American league is so strong. The strength and financial dominance of American sports is the main reason for this. The overriding aspect seems to be that American sports are almost exclusively money driven, that seems to limit it from being a sport that you can interact with the rest of the world. The interaction with the rest of the world is so limited, there is interest from other countries but this interest is just that, there is little INTERACTION.

[JoeTerp]

Its hard for Americans to get into the more Euro sports because for the most part people only like to watch a sport where they can see the best of the best compete (big reason why football isnt as big here)

I know what you're saying, mate, but just to be clear: you mean many Americans can't get into "soccer" because the level of talent in the (U.S.-based) MLS is much lower than that found in the European (or South American) leagues.  If the best are all playing in Europe--and if you can only see those European games on speciality sports channels at somewhat awkward times of day--why would you watch the MLS?  The same applies with watching American football in Canada.  There's a minority of die-hard CFL supporters but most Canadian football (pointy ball) fans prefer to watch the NFL because that's where the talent is.  (The CFL is a handful of Canadian players surrounded by NFL cast-offs).

Because when you like a lot a game, talent is not that important.

Plus, it's the only way one day that sport will be great.

Look at the division two in English football. Go to a Stadium, and see the fans there. Last year or two years ago we had here a guest from Burnley FC. He was telling us that he was happy because after some years they eventually had 2 or 3 good youngsters. That lad I'm sure he appreciates LFC's quality too!! we all like good football!! but when you really like a game you can get hooked to minor clubs aswell, even in the conference league.

That's why I tend to say that in England there are true fans, because there's not only good crowds in the top league, also in the minor ones.

I completely agree that a true fan of the sport would be a fan of the sport at any level.  But if your trying to attract someone to the sport you need to show that person the game played at the highest level to bring them in at first by the awe of amazement at the athletes and then the person can learn about the game and grow to love the subtleties and appreciate it at more levels.