Liverpool FC Forum

[Ciggy]

Its not Madeleine its a local girl and they are a farming family. 

[taff]

It's a bit unfair to criticise the Portuguese police of

bad media relations

when it's illegal for them to discuss any aspects of the case. What were they supposed to do?

Illegal to discuss it yes, then who is leaking info to the media then

[woof woof !]

Its not Madeleine its a local girl and they are a farming family. 

wow , the danger of jumping to conclusions exposed again .

[Bammo]

It's a bit unfair to criticise the Portuguese police of

bad media relations

when it's illegal for them to discuss any aspects of the case. What were they supposed to do?

Illegal to discuss it yes, then who is leaking info to the media then

It's highly likely that certain members of the police are leaking info. On the other hand, a lot of details about the case have come from the McCann's, their family and overeager reporters desperate to keep up with their exclusives.

The restrictions on the police talking about the case means they can't confirm or deny anything reported. This is probably why one minute the McCann's are devastated parents, then murdering swingers, then misunderstood victims....and so on.

The media needs to take some responsibility for what they report. From almost declaring the first suspect guilty to the latest pictures, they get it wrong and it only adds to the confusion.

[Ciggy]

Looks like all the kids where together on the night if this is true what a turn of events, and why the bloody hell did that O'Brian fella leave his child and go back the bar if she had been vomitting? That doesnt make sense to me why would a parent leave a sick child? or a healthy one for that matter.

From Times OnlineOctober 9, 2007

McCann children 'were not alone in apartment'

Kate and Gerry McCann say there are innocent explanations for all the evidence

David Brown
Significant new evidence about the night Madeleine McCann disappeared has been uncovered, it was claimed, as one of Portugal’s most senior detectives took charge of the investigation.

Paulo Rebelo, an assistant national director of the Polícia Judiciária (PJ), took over responsibility for the case last night. He made his name in the investigation into Portugal’s most notorious paedophile ring.

His appointment was made amid reports in Portugal that detectives have evidence contradicting Kate and Gerry McCann's version of the events of the night that they reported their daughter missing.

Police believe that Madeleine and her twin brother and sister may not have been alone in the McCann holiday apartment, but that the children of seven British friends who were on holiday with the McCanns were also present when Madeleine disappeared on May 3, the 24 Horas newspaper claimed.

The McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, have insisted that Madeleine was with only her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, while they dined with their friends at a tapas restaurant at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz. The group has claimed that their children were in their own apartments and that they made checks on their own children and those of their friends during the evening.

However, a source within the investigation was quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “It’s not only the collected evidence that points to the fact that there were more children inside that [the McCanns'] apartment.

“Evidence also exists, following the interrogations to the other people who that were at the Ocean Club, that only the McCanns’ apartment was visited by the people who attended the dinner.”

The children had visited each other’s apartments regularly in the six days that they had been at the Ocean Club. The newspaper does not explain how any forensic evidence could be pinpointed to the evening of Madeleine’s disappearance.

The newspaper also casts doubt on claims by one of the McCanns’ friends that he was looking after his unwell daughter when he was away from the restaurant on the evening Madeleine disappeared.

It says that Russell O’Brien, a hospital consultant from Exeter, left the restaurant at 9.35pm and returned at 10pm, just minutes before Mrs McCann discovered that Madeleine was missing. Mr O’Brien has strenuously denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance and has never been a formal suspect in the investigation.

24 Horas reported: “The British man guaranteed he took that long because he visited his sick daughter, and she vomited. He says he asked for the sheets to be changed, but the staff at the Ocean Club assured the investigators that nobody asked for any bedsheets to be changed that evening.”

Mr O’Brien’s partner, Jane Tanner, told police that she had seen a man carrying a girl away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. However, another witness has insisted that she was not in the area at that time.

A source within the PJ is quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “In face of so many contradictions and in face of the forensics results that we already hold, we have very few doubts that the girl died inside that apartment, and we only have doubts about who concealed the corpse.”

The report follows claims in the British media that although tests on samples discovered in the McCanns’ apartment and hire car do not prove that Madeleine is dead, they have strengthened the theory that her parents were involved in her disappearance.

A source at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which carried out the tests on behalf of the Portuguese authorities, is reported to have said that the results showed police were right to make the couple arguidos, or official suspects.

However, the McCanns’ British law firm, Kingsley Napley, has brought in its own forensic team to explain why the samples may be totally unconnected to Madeleine’s disappearance.

The couple insist that any DNA found in the Renault Scenic hired 25 days after Madeleine’s disappearance could have been transferred innocently from their daughter’s clothing when they moved to a new apartment.

Clarence Mitchell, the couple’s spokesman, said today: “Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide at all. They are perfectly happy to answer any of this, if it comes to it. There are wholly innocent explanations for anything the police may or may not have found."

Mr Mitchell said the couple were unable to grieve for Madeleine because they did not know yet what had happened to their daughter. “They need that knowledge whether Madeleine is alive or dead - let’s face it, she might be,” he said. “They need to know, before they can move on, before they can deal with that.

“In the absence of that hard information, they are doing what they can to, one, clear their names of these dreadful smears and, two, to actually get on with the job of finding her. That is the message we want to go to police in Portugal - ‘find Madeleine’.”

The couple hope that the appointment of a new head of the investigation will refocus the inquiry on finding their daughter. Mr Rebelo was appointed last night after the demotion of the previous lead investigator, Gonçalo Amaral, who had claimed that British police were being manipulated by Madeleine’s parents.

Mr Rebelo made his career at the Central Directory for the Investigation of Drug Trafficking before being appointed one of four associate directors of the PJ. He was head of the Criminal Investigation department in Lisbon when it uncovered a notorious paedophile ring. The “Casa Pia” ring had been abusing boys at state-run children’s homes for decades before being uncovered in 2002. Those alleged to have been involved included senior politicians, a former ambassador, celebrities and wealthy businessmen.

Mr Rebelo was described by colleagues as “highly regarded internally, he has done some excellent work for the PJ, he is nice and a good communicator”. He is close to the PJ’s national director, Alípio Ribeiro.

[lakes10]

Looks like all the kids where together on the night if this is true what a turn of events, and why the bloody hell did that O'Brian fella leave his child and go back the bar if she had been vomitting? That doesnt make sense to me why would a parent leave a sick child? or a healthy one for that matter.

From Times OnlineOctober 9, 2007

McCann children 'were not alone in apartment'

Kate and Gerry McCann say there are innocent explanations for all the evidence

David Brown
Significant new evidence about the night Madeleine McCann disappeared has been uncovered, it was claimed, as one of Portugal’s most senior detectives took charge of the investigation.

Paulo Rebelo, an assistant national director of the Polícia Judiciária (PJ), took over responsibility for the case last night. He made his name in the investigation into Portugal’s most notorious paedophile ring.

His appointment was made amid reports in Portugal that detectives have evidence contradicting Kate and Gerry McCann's version of the events of the night that they reported their daughter missing.

Police believe that Madeleine and her twin brother and sister may not have been alone in the McCann holiday apartment, but that the children of seven British friends who were on holiday with the McCanns were also present when Madeleine disappeared on May 3, the 24 Horas newspaper claimed.

The McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, have insisted that Madeleine was with only her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, while they dined with their friends at a tapas restaurant at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz. The group has claimed that their children were in their own apartments and that they made checks on their own children and those of their friends during the evening.

However, a source within the investigation was quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “It’s not only the collected evidence that points to the fact that there were more children inside that [the McCanns'] apartment.

“Evidence also exists, following the interrogations to the other people who that were at the Ocean Club, that only the McCanns’ apartment was visited by the people who attended the dinner.”

The children had visited each other’s apartments regularly in the six days that they had been at the Ocean Club. The newspaper does not explain how any forensic evidence could be pinpointed to the evening of Madeleine’s disappearance.

The newspaper also casts doubt on claims by one of the McCanns’ friends that he was looking after his unwell daughter when he was away from the restaurant on the evening Madeleine disappeared.

It says that Russell O’Brien, a hospital consultant from Exeter, left the restaurant at 9.35pm and returned at 10pm, just minutes before Mrs McCann discovered that Madeleine was missing. Mr O’Brien has strenuously denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance and has never been a formal suspect in the investigation.

24 Horas reported: “The British man guaranteed he took that long because he visited his sick daughter, and she vomited. He says he asked for the sheets to be changed, but the staff at the Ocean Club assured the investigators that nobody asked for any bedsheets to be changed that evening.”

Mr O’Brien’s partner, Jane Tanner, told police that she had seen a man carrying a girl away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. However, another witness has insisted that she was not in the area at that time.

A source within the PJ is quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “In face of so many contradictions and in face of the forensics results that we already hold, we have very few doubts that the girl died inside that apartment, and we only have doubts about who concealed the corpse.”

The report follows claims in the British media that although tests on samples discovered in the McCanns’ apartment and hire car do not prove that Madeleine is dead, they have strengthened the theory that her parents were involved in her disappearance.

A source at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which carried out the tests on behalf of the Portuguese authorities, is reported to have said that the results showed police were right to make the couple arguidos, or official suspects.

However, the McCanns’ British law firm, Kingsley Napley, has brought in its own forensic team to explain why the samples may be totally unconnected to Madeleine’s disappearance.

The couple insist that any DNA found in the Renault Scenic hired 25 days after Madeleine’s disappearance could have been transferred innocently from their daughter’s clothing when they moved to a new apartment.

Clarence Mitchell, the couple’s spokesman, said today: “Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide at all. They are perfectly happy to answer any of this, if it comes to it. There are wholly innocent explanations for anything the police may or may not have found."

Mr Mitchell said the couple were unable to grieve for Madeleine because they did not know yet what had happened to their daughter. “They need that knowledge whether Madeleine is alive or dead - let’s face it, she might be,” he said. “They need to know, before they can move on, before they can deal with that.

“In the absence of that hard information, they are doing what they can to, one, clear their names of these dreadful smears and, two, to actually get on with the job of finding her. That is the message we want to go to police in Portugal - ‘find Madeleine’.”

The couple hope that the appointment of a new head of the investigation will refocus the inquiry on finding their daughter. Mr Rebelo was appointed last night after the demotion of the previous lead investigator, Gonçalo Amaral, who had claimed that British police were being manipulated by Madeleine’s parents.

Mr Rebelo made his career at the Central Directory for the Investigation of Drug Trafficking before being appointed one of four associate directors of the PJ. He was head of the Criminal Investigation department in Lisbon when it uncovered a notorious paedophile ring. The “Casa Pia” ring had been abusing boys at state-run children’s homes for decades before being uncovered in 2002. Those alleged to have been involved included senior politicians, a former ambassador, celebrities and wealthy businessmen.

Mr Rebelo was described by colleagues as “highly regarded internally, he has done some excellent work for the PJ, he is nice and a good communicator”. He is close to the PJ’s national director, Alípio Ribeiro.

i heard them talking about this on the radio......as i have been band from the forum that i normally post about this case i will post it here.

It seem that now there is a new head of police looking at the case the finger is once again being pointed at the family.

The information that is coming our of the back door seems to be better as well, we are not getting the information from a friend of a freind of the police.

[Ciggy]

Panorama is about Madeleine tonight at 10 BBC1.

[Emerald Red]

For f*ck sake, I'm starting to get tired of hearing about this bollox in the papers and on the news. I just wish they'd solve it already. It's a f*cking X-File this one. She was beamed up by aliens.

[Ciggy]

Still none the wiser after watching that, but I dont think the program done them any favours atall.

[Mikz]

Damn! Forgot all about it -meaning to watch it!  goin but what cigs says , maybe I didnt miss much..

[Effes]

This is worth a read:

http://madeleinefoundation.org/main/30-reasons/

I think it's quite heavily skewed in an accusatory way; but it's hard to read and not have doubts about the parents.

One bit that I thought was dodgey:

26. Failing to co-operate fully with the Portuguese police despite repeatedly promising to do so - and refusing their mobile ‘phone records

The Doctors McCann insisted from the beginning that they would fully co-operate with the Portuguese police.

When the police began investigating the possibility that the McCanns themselves might be involved in Madeleine’s disappearance, they immediately claimed that they were being ‘framed’.

They initially refused to supply their mobile ‘phone records to the police, despite the fact that Dr Gerry McCann was known to have received many SMS text messages on the day Madeleine ‘disappeared’. The details of those text messages could have thrown light on the mystery of Madeleine’s ‘disappearance’. The Portuguese police asked the Doctors McCann to supply their mobile ‘phone account records. But by the time the Portuguese police had obtained Dr Gerry McCann’s mobile ‘phone, sometime between 11.37pm on 3rd May and 12.03am on 4th May (just after midnight), it is now known that he deleted all those messages.

Thus within an hour-and-a-half of Madeleine ‘disappearing’, Dr Gerry McCann was taking time to delete his mobile ‘phone records. Why?

[Kharhaz]

Ive just read the end of part one. The one thing that struck me the most was the fact the parents lived off the media. Everything was paid for. The trips to different countries and the visit to the pope. If one of my kids went missing, I wouldnt give a damn about religion or running to the press, I would be out there trying to find my son. Also, the fact that they were out in a foreign country and left there kids alone in the first place in a hotel room, I dont know any parent around me who would do that. They struggle to let their kids play with other kids in there own street, so to think that a foreign hotel is a safe house is just plain ignorant.

The parents of Madelaine made such an effort to ensure a world wide search, and now there is not so much interest. The whole thing stinks. And many of us had an idea from the off something wasnt right.

[Kharhaz]

19. The startling failure of the McCann’s friends to search for Madeleine the night she disappeared

According to a number of reports which have never been contradicted, while hundreds of people, including staff of Mark Warners and many local people, searched the area around the Ocean Club apartments for hours after Madeleine went missing, not one of the McCanns’ friends, known as the ‘Tapas 9?, bothered to do so. They all went to bed. That was confirmed in articles written by Bridget O’Donnell (Jeremy Wilkins’ partner) of The Guardian and David James Smith of The Times in December 2007. That is as clear an indication as you could get that they knew it would be pointless searching for Madeleine. It is entirely consistent with them knowing that Madeleine was already dead.

This raises my eyebrows.  So many good points raised so far. So many questions are raised and so few answers.

[Effes]

19. The startling failure of the McCann’s friends to search for Madeleine the night she disappeared

According to a number of reports which have never been contradicted, while hundreds of people, including staff of Mark Warners and many local people, searched the area around the Ocean Club apartments for hours after Madeleine went missing, not one of the McCanns’ friends, known as the ‘Tapas 9?, bothered to do so. They all went to bed. That was confirmed in articles written by Bridget O’Donnell (Jeremy Wilkins’ partner) of The Guardian and David James Smith of The Times in December 2007. That is as clear an indication as you could get that they knew it would be pointless searching for Madeleine. It is entirely consistent with them knowing that Madeleine was already dead.

This raises my eyebrows.  So many good points raised so far. So many questions are raised and so few answers.

They (Detectives) always say on the Crime Investigation programmes that the ones who sleep are guilty.

Always.

However - are we to believe that these people were complicit in the murder of a young child?

I just cant imagine it.

[Ciggy]

I think she died accidental in the apartment.