Liverpool FC Forum

[Fo Dne]

Slightly off topic on the Rhys Jones case but its that that has me thinking...

I was listening to it all day the other day and it had me so emotional at some points I was struggling to keep my mind on my job. It had me so wound up I felt like kicking the out of every little bastard that dressed like him or any other little scally I saw.

Then I was asking myself do these people deserve to have human rights?

What would be wrong with medevil punishment and torture for people like this?

Surely these scumbags don't deserve human rights anymore after this sort of thing...

If they were punished slowly and made to die a painful horrible death consisting of torture then surely thats more likely put these horrible rats off being the way they are as apose to "going down" which seems to be what most of them aspire to anyway.

I really hope the biggest nastiest black fellas with the biggest knobs you've ever seen get there hands on that little rat and make his life hell. It will be a travesty if that doesn't happen to him!!!



Am that off that didn't make sense, anyway i was trying to get people to discuss what the punishment should be and do they think these fools deserve any human rights?

[Kharhaz]

With regards to the Rhys Jones case. It made a change to see a human being as a judge. The sentence handed out is possibly the only one he could have handed out. I also think its a shame how deluded these kids are with regards to handling guns and ganglaw. This little boy was killed because he was aiming for a member of a rival gang who he detests.

Many questions have to be asked. But one for me is this, how is it, these kids are able to get there hands on a gun in the first place?

The arguments for the kid firing the gun, and lets not forget he is a kid, is he wasnt aiming for Rhys. The argument for his girlfriend "He is a hero, he didnt do it". There is a total ignorance there. And not just on the kids part. How are we expected to stop this kind of thing happening?  How are we expected to stop kids being killed, gangs having weapons (teenage gangs especially), and terrorists.

We live in a country were the laws are so lax, so fragile, that those who challenge them have the upper hand rather than those who abide by them.

The simple question should be. If the civilised people of britain went to war, fed up with the laws introduced and the repercussions of those laws, if the people of britain all said enoughs enough, we are sick of being treated liked idiotic animals, we are tired of bowing to teenagers (because you, the government stopped us disciplining them), we are sick of being bombed by terrorists (because you, the government allowed them here) , we are sick of young kids being killed (because everything is based on budgets, or indeed cost effective methods which save money caused by, you guessed it, the government) and said, thats it, I see a gang walk down my street they will be met by my gang, my gang being the street itself, if you are a known trouble maker I will beat the living cack out of you, better you than my son, nephew or niece, why not? isnt that in our human right? to protect our own?

Human Rights should exist. They should remain in place. It cannot be all one way traffic...can it?

[SouthCoastShankly]

The problem we all have is these cases (Rhys Jones, Baby P, etc) stir up raw emotion. Our natural vigilante reaction is there inevitably to make us feel better. I do have respect for some people who work in a job where they can detach themselves from the emotional aspect of their work, especially when it is an awful subject matter like murder and abuse of minors.

I can see why the human rights law was established but it is clearly unworkable. The problem is the western world (especially Europe) feel they have to take the moral high ground in decisions that decide someone's life course (i.e. sentences, abolishment of the death penalty, etc). I personally think that justice in this country is wrong because the 'human rights' of the victim are on a par with the criminal, regardless of their crime. This can't be right.

[Big Niall]

kids don't start off shooting people. The shooter probably has a long history of steadily escalating crime from some initial petty crimes. There should be zero tolerance for these crimes. Parents should get no child allowance and have to pay damages if their child does crime.

[Judge]

Parents should get no child allowance and have to pay damages if their child does crime.

your ideas are quite radical niall

[supersub]

I really hope the biggest nastiest black fellas with the biggest knobs you've ever seen get there hands on that little rat and make his life hell.

Why not a nasty white fella

[Judge]

I really hope the biggest nastiest black fellas with the biggest knobs you've ever seen get there hands on that little rat and make his life hell.

Why not a nasty white fella

you have the job mate

the SS will sort it

[Fo Dne]

Pathetic!

Try and have a decent discussion then the do gooders come out.

[Effes]

Pathetic!

Try and have a decent discussion then the do gooders come out.

Decent debate? And I quote:

"I really hope the biggest nastiest black fellas with the biggest knobs you've ever seen..."

Cant imagine that on Newsnight 

[tubby]

I hear what your saying and yes sometimes it seems that these people shouldn't be given human rights but at the end of the day there will always be someone to say even they deserve rights ect.....This country has enough problems with people genuinley wanting to turn it upside down. If I was in charge id jusat say right all you lot can of hows about that, you dont like it here well fook off then. But sadly we cant do that. If those kind of people get rights then what chance do young offenders like this have getting properly sorted out.

What sentence did the kid get btw I cant remember? But even if he went to a proper jail he would probably come out more mentally sick than when he went in and would be more likley to offend again. It's a pathetic circle that doesnt really work. I know its harsh and would never happen in this day and age but I think if something like the death penalty was brought back it would maybe hit home more that you cant kill and get away with it.

[bigmick]

Worldwide, this gang membership thing is a huge problem, and for me it needs to be legislated against. The difficulty with it is framing a law which defines what a gang is, what membership of it constitutes and how do you prove that either exist.

My answer (which admittedly i've just thought of so there's probably a couple of holes in it) would be for the police to able to apply to the court in respect of any group of people (be they the Norris Green angry mob, the Hell's Angels or whatever) and get membership of that collection of people made illegal. To do so, they would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that firstly there was a perception amongst the public that such a group was a danger, and secondly some evidence of repeated criminal activity. Prior to any such court hearing, public notices should be displayed allowing any members of such a group to appear if they wished and dispute the "banning".

Once that court order is in place though, when these scrotes gather on a street corner the Police should have the power to issue them with firstly a caution and advice that by gathering as a group they were committing an offence, followed by taking them to court for continuing to be a member of a banned group. There should be a mandatory penalty of three years inside, nice and simple.

........Group of scrotes gather on street corner, Law rock up and issue them with cautions detailing video evidence that they as a group are continuing to gather and "be a gang". The defendants should have the facility and right that with a lawyer they can view such video evidence should they feel it is necessary. After that, if they continue to meet up on the street, they should be lifted and banged up.

It may not be the fairest scenario, but it's high time law abiding people the World over had the d!ckheads hiding in their houses rather than the other way round. Human rights? How about the human right to have your kids playing outside without having to worry that some silly c... is going to shoot them in the head because he thinks he's Al Pacino, or some dirty c... is going to try and get his filthy hands on em?

Human rights cut both ways, and it's about time we redressed the balance.

[Kharhaz]

kids don't start off shooting people. The shooter probably has a long history of steadily escalating crime from some initial petty crimes. There should be zero tolerance for these crimes. Parents should get no child allowance and have to pay damages if their child does crime.

Thats true, but then not all parents encourage there kids to be a big pain in the backside. In fact many kids who turn out to be criminals usually come from a moral background. The problem is education. Ive harped on about this earlier but the finger of blame is square at the goverment. Aside from the discipline we are no longer allowed to apply, you have to look at schools. When Labour took over they acknowledged that one growing problem was education. Every year when labour needed a big speach "Education, education, education". They realised we had to improve our standards.

Look at now. How have they solved that problem? Privatization. If you have £2 million you can invest in a school, hell you can even pick what lessons the kids learn. You can choose what staff to employ and the wage.

Its a running joke on the Armstrong and Miller show, when you are at the lowest point, become a teacher !

Only it isnt funny. I realised awhile back with my oldest. Sabre will remember, I complained about him seeming to get more stupid.

Ive realised that isnt the case at all. He has stopped learning. He is learning nothing new. He came home the other night stuck on a maths problem. He came to me in which was pointless because im poor with maths, but my youngest helped him out straight away. He is still in the younger school.

Parents can be blamed to an extent, but its down to higher powers that determine what kind of future our kids are going to have.

[Lando_Griffin]

Worldwide, this gang membership thing is a huge problem, and for me it needs to be legislated against. The difficulty with it is framing a law which defines what a gang is, what membership of it constitutes and how do you prove that either exist.

My answer (which admittedly i've just thought of so there's probably a couple of holes in it) would be for the police to able to apply to the court in respect of any group of people (be they the Norris Green angry mob, the Hell's Angels or whatever) and get membership of that collection of people made illegal. To do so, they would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that firstly there was a perception amongst the public that such a group was a danger, and secondly some evidence of repeated criminal activity. Prior to any such court hearing, public notices should be displayed allowing any members of such a group to appear if they wished and dispute the "banning".

Once that court order is in place though, when these scrotes gather on a street corner the Police should have the power to issue them with firstly a caution and advice that by gathering as a group they were committing an offence, followed by taking them to court for continuing to be a member of a banned group. There should be a mandatory penalty of three years inside, nice and simple.

........Group of scrotes gather on street corner, Law rock up and issue them with cautions detailing video evidence that they as a group are continuing to gather and "be a gang". The defendants should have the facility and right that with a lawyer they can view such video evidence should they feel it is necessary. After that, if they continue to meet up on the street, they should be lifted and banged up.

It may not be the fairest scenario, but it's high time law abiding people the World over had the d!ckheads hiding in their houses rather than the other way round. Human rights? How about the human right to have your kids playing outside without having to worry that some silly c... is going to shoot them in the head because he thinks he's Al Pacino, or some dirty c... is going to try and get his filthy hands on em?

Human rights cut both ways, and it's about time we redressed the balance.

So the "Hell's Angels" have a banning order on them. Later the same day, "Hell's Angels II" begins, and the months of legal battles have to start over again.

It's similar to the gypsy problem - they move into a field. After a week of solicitors and p*ssing about, an eviction notice is served. They move to the next field, and it starts over again.

The fact is, until the Government gives more power to the Police to deal with the scum, things are only going to get worse.

[LegBarnes]

Slightly off topic on the Rhys Jones case but its that that has me thinking...

I was listening to it all day the other day and it had me so emotional at some points I was struggling to keep my mind on my job. It had me so wound up I felt like kicking the out of every little bastard that dressed like him or any other little scally I saw.

Then I was asking myself do these people deserve to have human rights?

What would be wrong with medevil punishment and torture for people like this?

Surely these scumbags don't deserve human rights anymore after this sort of thing...

If they were punished slowly and made to die a painful horrible death consisting of torture then surely thats more likely put these horrible rats off being the way they are as apose to "going down" which seems to be what most of them aspire to anyway.

I really hope the biggest nastiest black fellas with the biggest knobs you've ever seen get there hands on that little rat and make his life hell. It will be a travesty if that doesn't happen to him!!!



Am that off that didn't make sense, anyway i was trying to get people to discuss what the punishment should be and do they think these fools deserve any human rights?

Yes they do but its understandable why so many people are angry.

When will people learn that Violence is a vicious cycle more it is around more of it will happen.

My mother is a social worker and she see's this happening day after day after day.

I am not saying to go as far to reward this screwed up little upstarts but really hurting them won't change them.

I feel this people should have to be taken into the town center and have people throw rotten fruit at them and show them there actions will only cause them humiliation.

To live in shame is far worse then to die with pride and anger.

[LegBarnes]

Pathetic!

Try and have a decent discussion then the do gooders come out.

If you think the way you do , you no better then them.

To think to solve a problem to do the same thing is stupid i am shocked , really i am.

I am not saying with have to hold hands and dance around a maypole but kicking kids head in just because they grow up with violence in there lifes is not the way to go.