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[Benny The Noon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11623410

London firefighters' Bonfire Night strike 'reckless'
Firefighters protested through the streets of London in September London firefighters marched in protest over new contracts in September

The government has accused the Fire Brigades' Union (FBU) of "putting lives at risk" by calling a strike in London on Bonfire Night.

The 47-hour action, starting on 5 November, will be the third strike date since the FBU announced strike action over new contracts.

It said the dispute centred on plans to scrap current rotas and force staff to sign new contracts or face the sack.

But Fire Minister Bob Neill called the action "reckless".
Continue reading the main story
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"It's profoundly wrong and inappropriate to choose that particular time for the strike," the Conservative MP said.

"The government's stayed out of the details of the dispute which is between the Fire Brigades' Union and their employers.

"But the timing of this particular strike I think is provocative. It's reckless. It actually puts Londoners' lives at risk in a needless way."

The FBU said thousands of its members would walk out from 1000 GMT on 5 November until 0900 GMT on 7 November.

Last week, the FBU announced that 79% of its members who voted supported strike action.

Crews staged an eight-hour strike on Saturday and another is planned for Monday 1 November.
'Calculated' insults

FBU general secretary Matt Wrack said the union had been left with no choice.

"The alternative is to allow London's firefighters to become doormats for their employers to walk on," he said.

"The long-term safety of Londoners depends on a well-trained, self-confident firefighting force.
Continue reading the main story
WHAT HAS LED TO THE STRIKE?

    * The dispute centres on plans to shorten firefighters' night shifts and increase day shifts
    * Firefighters currently work 15-hour night shifts and 9-hour day shifts
    * The London Fire Brigade is proposing 13-hour night shifts and 11-hour day shifts
    * The brigade says this will give more time for training and community safety work
    * The FBU is angry that firefighters must sign new contracts or face the sack
    * It is striking as the brigade has begun a formal process to terminate 5,600 firefighters' contracts

"The chairman of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, Brian Coleman, issues calculated insults and says he's relaxed and sacking all of them.

"He and the Commissioner, Ron Dobson, want to run the London Fire Brigade as though it were a Victorian mill. They want a frightened and obedient firefighting force. We simply cannot accept that."

Urging the authority to meet representatives and come up with a solution, he said: "There's still nearly two weeks for the London Fire Brigade to get this right."

London Fire Brigade said changes were needed so the public would remain protected while budgets were squeezed.

London fire authority chairman Brian Coleman asked: "What sort of union orders its firefighters to go on strike over Bonfire Night?"

"The emergency fire cover did what we expected it to do the first day, and will do so again."

London Fire Commissioner Ron Dobson said: "It is very disappointing that even before the first strike dates have taken place we are facing new threats.

"The harassment, intimidation and violence that occurred during the first FBU strike to emergency fire crews shows that there is a small mindless minority of people hell-bent on trying to sabotage work that is done to reduce the risk from fire and save lives.

"I would rather we resolve the dispute, but if the next strike goes ahead, I hope protesting is more peaceful and will not impact on the contracted service we need to provide."





Once again they go on strike and this time on Bonfire night ?!

Have they gone too far this time ?

[redhayesy]

imho NO they haven't gone too far this time,reason- THEY DESERVE A FECKING PAY RISE,LET ALONE BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS AS FAR AS HOURS ARE SHEDULED ETC. i don't know any firemen personally, but i fecking sympathise all the way with the way they are being treated at the moment.

remember the fact is that this is an always will be an emergency service! recently 2 firemen from a station in southampton (i think) were buried after losing their lives in which a FIREWORK factory burned down,so i think this situation is still raw for alot of firemen an if you are being threatened with the sack if you don't adhere to the change in shift patterns etc, i'd go fecking mental aswell!

in any job it's bad enough being bullied into shift pattern changes that disturb,even wreck some family lives,just for the sake of keeping your job-so people put up with it. but in this case i say -we need our firemen,women. so why the feck our powers that be trying to ruin their family life,quality of life when they are not on duty.

ffs these people work stupid enough hours as it is! i wouldn't want to do it,thats why i take my hat off to all firemen,women across the country-an they deserve to have an opinion on working hours,shift patterns,pay etc -cause i assume they haven't been given the chance to voice their views so that's why strike action is being threatened-well good luck to them. the fecking co-ollision or whoever should act now so that it doesn't get that far-cause we need them all year round,not just on bonfire night! so listen to their concerns etc, then motivation an the want to do the job will remain intact-so no lives are put at risk!

this is also where the union needs to earn its corn for me an get this resolved a.s.a.p for the good of the fire service,it's workers an families to get the best result alround.

[Benny The Noon]

You do know that the average fireman earns more than your average nurse,paramedic,soldier,sailor ,airmen,policemen and also work less hours than them as well .

when they are not on duty they are also earning even more money doing other jobs as well . 

Everytime something happens they dont like they go straight on strike

When they first went on strike the whole country had sympathy for them until people found out they were striking because they didnt like the fact they were unable to supplement their wages with even more money on their 4 days off every 8 days . And we had servicemen around the country working 5 weeks straight to cover for them while they stood outside .

The country is not very rich at the moment and belts need to be tightened - servicemen are being made redundant and will earn nothing but they cant strike and i bet they wouldnt strike as well .

This strike action could put lives at risk .

Yes im sure they arent happy - once again for the 4th time in 6 years now but they will still work the same hours overall - around a third of the year for their 30 to 50 grand  . Maybe they shoudl think of the people that earn half of what they do while doing twice the amount of hours .

[redhayesy]

how do you know that 'the average firemen' as you put it mate,earns more than the 'average so called other emergency service people' - give me hard figures of facts -not just what is banded about or what you or other people may think they earn!

also this isn't about armed service personell,i know on that score they don't earn what they deserve mate. it isn't about them it's about firemen! as for them working less hours than the rest you mention, again give me proof!  & as for them doing other jobs when not on duty, you are having a laugh aren't you! as i say i don't know any firemen personally,but seriously mate when would they get the fecking time to do other jobs to earn extra money- there not fecking postmen! who do have the time to earn extra money when not on a shift, i know cause iv'e been one in the past an our working pattern alowed that to happen,cause it was job an finish hours!

i stand by what i say- i wouldn't do there job-they put their lives at risk everytime they start their shift! that's not to say any of the other services you mention don't do the same,but this discussion is about the pro-posed firemen strike an for me, an as for the whole country had sympathy for them until they found out (surposedly)  they couldn't supplement their so called excellant wages is somthing i really find hard to believe! again give me proof of their wages an activitys to support your case.

do you personally know any firemen who do this,cause i'd love to see evidence of it.

i hope the proposed strike action doesn't go ahead to put lives at risk-but i for one fully understand there anger at being threatened with the sack if they don't play ball.-ffs i thought bully boy tactics like that went out with the ark! but then again the fecking conservites are back in town with there fecking puppet followers lib dem!

[Benny The Noon]

Yes I do know two firemen - play golf with them - they work 2 days 2 nights 4 days off plus 28 days holiday plus bank holidays - both earn 30 grand plus and both work extra jobs during their 4 days off to earn more money .

[redhayesy]

is that all they earn mate seriously! i for one feel for them,they deserve far more than that a year. fair play to them & next time you play golf with them-plaese pass on my best wishes to them -whereever their station is,i have the up most respect for firemen an hope they get the the best outcome possible-they deserve it!

[Benny The Noon]

Is that all they earn !?!? The average nurse in the uk earns just 23 thousand and works twice the amount of hours as a fireman

[woof woof !]

I think most people, even Firemen, would agree that nurses deserve more money. Maybe when nurses start running into burning buildings to rescue people they'll actually get it.

[Benny The Noon]

Ok what about Soldiers - new guys get 14 and a half grand before tax while dodging bullets on a daily basis without a day off .

[woof woof !]

Ok what about Soldiers - new guys get 14 and a half grand before tax while dodging bullets on a daily basis without a day off .

Yeah , but on the upside they get to shoot at people. 

[Benny The Noon]

fair play woof can't argue against that

[Big Niall]

Are the people who want firemen,nurses,soldiers etc to be paid more willing to pay significantly more tax to pay for it?

[worcester_red]

I think most people, even Firemen, would agree that nurses deserve more money. Maybe when nurses start running into burning buildings to rescue people they'll actually get it.

yeah becuase nurses don't save lives or tend to sick people do they!!
The hero worship of firemen is bloody ridiculous, they are just doing their job and 95% of the time it doesn't involve anything you might see in the movies.
The other day we had 3 firetrucks and 2 fire office cars in our village, reason, a horse had fallen into a lake and couldn't get out, I mean ffs and they say there is no room for cuts in the public sector?
I hate the way unions think they can strike at every litle thing they disagree with, particularly in the public sector. In the real world if the boss says here is the new shift pattern you just have to suck it up or quit!

[Big Niall]

I think most people, even Firemen, would agree that nurses deserve more money. Maybe when nurses start running into burning buildings to rescue people they'll actually get it.

yeah becuase nurses don't save lives or tend to sick people do they!!
The hero worship of firemen is bloody ridiculous, they are just doing their job and 95% of the time it doesn't involve anything you might see in the movies.
The other day we had 3 firetrucks and 2 fire office cars in our village, reason, a horse had fallen into a lake and couldn't get out, I mean ffs and they say there is no room for cuts in the public sector?
I hate the way unions think they can strike at every litle thing they disagree with, particularly in the public sector. In the real world if the boss says here is the new shift pattern you just have to suck it up or quit!

It always annoys me the way public sector workers chose these careers and then immediately complain that they are not paid enough. Also, they tend to portray themselves as some type of hero, as if they are doing charity work instead of a job that they are paid to do. As you said, if they don't like it then they can leave.

[Benny The Noon]

Are the people who want firemen,nurses,soldiers etc to be paid more willing to pay significantly more tax to pay for it?

Are the middle class workers on thousands a month willing to take a pay cut to pay for emergency services .

Bankers etc getting over 80 grand a year and they are the people that put the country in the sh.it it is now .