Liverpool FC Forum

[bunglemark2]

From the excerpts I've read - Guilty, your honour

[sgs]

287. The referee recorded in his report that Mr Comolli spoke fluent Spanish. Mr Comolli denied in evidence that he had told Mr Marriner that he spoke fluent Spanish, telling us instead that he simply told Mr Marriner that he spoke Spanish. However, we do not think that Mr Marriner would have recorded in his report that Mr Comolli speaks fluent Spanish unless Mr Comolli had told Mr Marriner that he did. Mr Marriner did not know who Mr Comolli was when he entered the referee's room, so it is unlikely that Mr Marriner understood from any other source that Mr Marriner spoke fluent Spanish. Mr Marriner says in his witness statement that Mr Comolli told him that he speaks fluent Spanish, and Mr Marriner's witness statement was accepted by Mr Suarez. We accept Mr Marriner's evidence that Mr Comolli told him that he spoke fluent Spanish.


290. The difficulty this presents for Mr Suarez is that it appears to be inconsistent with the case that he advanced before us. He told us that all that he said to Mr Evra was "Por que, negro", and not "Porque tu es negro" or "Porque tu eres negro".


So in effect the words written down by ref Mariner, from 4th official Dowd's notes, (which was discarded by Mariner on completion of his report) of what Comolli (who may or may not be a fluent Spanish speaker) translated after speaking to Suarez 'porque tu es negro' are taken over Suarez's own statement that he said 'por que, negro...'

Wow!

[maguskwt]

Please read the report guys... I'm no expert in law but it is clearly biased... they disect everything that Suarez did or did not do and highlighting all the inconsistencies but rarely questioned Evra... This is not fair at all wtf...

Suarez is also abit dumb or not properly adviced or didn't think that the matter was that serious...

First of all it was Evra who initiated the provocation... Then Evra was interviewed on 20th of October and Suarez was interviewed only after 2 weeks after the incident happened. And no transcript was provided for Evra's interviews... this to me is all a little too fishy.

Clearly a witchhunt and I'm glad the club put out that statement... Evra was as guilty as Suarez for inciting the incident and when Suarez responded as he did, played the race cards.

I'm glad about the club's statement and Evra should also be charged and penalised. The fox Ferguson knew exactly what the incident was and told Evra to go ahead with it because he knew that the race issue was under scrutiny. The t-shirt statement looks a little bit ridiculous though but there is nothing wrong with the club's statement. The Committee did persecute Suarez based on Evra's words alone and no action or investigation taken against Evra's offense... it's ridiculous

[Simari]

Absolute fromt he FA report.

I simply cannot wait until the English FA is discretided as an organisation.

The justification they use is one that kids would use in an argument.

And one more thing to add ..

I did bet on blackburn winning ht/ft - so I am indeed a very happy person today

[Santa]

Please read the report guys... I'm no expert in law but it is clearly biased... they disect everything that Suarez did or did not do and highlighting all the inconsistencies but rarely questioned Evra... This is not fair at all wtf...

Suarez is also abit dumb or not properly adviced or didn't think that the matter was that serious...

First of all it was Evra who initiated the provocation... Then Evra was interviewed on 20th of October and Suarez was interviewed only after 2 weeks after the incident happened. And no transcript was provided for Evra's interviews... this to me is all a little too fishy.

Clearly a witchhunt and I'm glad the club put out that statement... Evra was as guilty as Suarez for inciting the incident and when Suarez responded as he did, played the race cards.

I'm glad about the club's statement and Evra should also be charged and penalised. The fox Ferguson knew exactly what the incident was and told Evra to go ahead with it because he knew that the race issue was under scrutiny. The t-shirt statement looks a little bit ridiculous though but there is nothing wrong with the club's statement. The Committee did persecute Suarez based on Evra's words alone and no action or investigation taken against Evra's offense... it's ridiculous

Exactly my thought...if Suarez is wrong, then we shouldn't defend him with tinted glasses, but praise for Evra? now that's downright rediculous!!! definitely fishy and definitely engineered to cause disruptions to our club

[metalhead]

if Suarez has been charged for what he's done then shouldn't Evra be charged for saying 'don't touch me South American'? Doesn't that constitute a breach of the rule by using Suarez' ethnic origin against him?

I'm leaning towards agreeing with Dunny here. I'm defending Suarez from a legel perspective here but if he's called him a negro then fair dos we take it on the chin and let it go, the sooner we do that the sooner it fooks off. It's us thats dragging it on now and we haven't helped ourselves with the t-shirt malarky. At the time I was happy with us supporting him but it's put him on a pedastal and I'm not a fan of that. Take the suspension and leave it at that. There's a lot of debate about the decision and I think most in the football world understand why, just leave it at that.

I'm happy to pick it apart and find reasons for argument but it doesn't really change the facts when all is said and done

Read the report mate, if Suarez deemed unreliable then Evra is credible?

[Kharhaz]

Read the report mate, if Suarez deemed unreliable then Evra is credible?

For me the main argument is about insulting words or behavior.

Lets take for instance the reason why the whole thing came about. Evra made a comment about a member of Suarez' family. Now for that alone shouldn't Evra be punished? A similar incident happened between Zidane and Materazzi did it not? So Evra knew what he said would get a response out of Suarez. So Suarez did respond, and not in a clever manner either, but clever enough to raise questions about the manner in which he responded. If the club don't appeal then we have to accept Suarez has been charged with racist comments. Now maybe in Uruguay they don't take what Suarez came out with as personal, but Suarez knew Evra would take offence.

Its handbags, and as the Liverpool statement pointed out, Suarez said he didn't hear the insults from Evra, when clearly he did. He decided to leave it on the pitch. Whereas Evra hasn't. I'm not saying what Suarez said should be excused, it shouldn't, and he should be punished. But Evra should also be punished for instigating the whole thing in the first place and getting personal.

What makes it worse now is the fact that Suarez said he didn't hear the insults, so he cannot now put in a charge of his own against Evra for the insults he came out with.

[metalhead]

Read the report mate, if Suarez deemed unreliable then Evra is credible?

For me the main argument is about insulting words or behavior.

Lets take for instance the reason why the whole thing came about. Evra made a comment about a member of Suarez' family. Now for that alone shouldn't Evra be punished? A similar incident happened between Zidane and Materazzi did it not? So Evra knew what he said would get a response out of Suarez. So Suarez did respond, and not in a clever manner either, but clever enough to raise questions about the manner in which he responded. If the club don't appeal then we have to accept Suarez has been charged with racist comments. Now maybe in Uruguay they don't take what Suarez came out with as personal, but Suarez knew Evra would take offence.

Its handbags, and as the Liverpool statement pointed out, Suarez said he didn't hear the insults from Evra, when clearly he did. He decided to leave it on the pitch. Whereas Evra hasn't. I'm not saying what Suarez said should be excused, it shouldn't, and he should be punished. But Evra should also be punished for instigating the whole thing in the first place and getting personal.

What makes it worse now is the fact that Suarez said he didn't hear the insults, so he cannot now put in a charge of his own against Evra for the insults he came out with.

Bold part : we don't know that, according to the report Suarez denies it by saying "why, black" (given its being spoken in spanish). We can form a lot of theories of what happened, but there is no solid evidence that Suarez came up to Evra and told him "why? Because your black" or " I don't speak to black people".

The FA basically took Evra's story to be more believable than Suarez and banned Suarez for it.

[metalhead]

You don't want to go on RAWK though, if you feel any doubts they would call you a manc and tell you F off to redcafe

[KennyisGod....still]

this bit dont look good.


When the referee blew his whistle and called the players over to
him shortly after the exchanges in the goalmouth, Mr Evra said to the referee "ref, ref, he
just called me a black".

Strange how this never came out at the time or that Marriner (admittedly not the best ref in the PL) did nothin about it there and then....

[eds]

The FA basically took Evra's story to be more believable than Suarez and banned Suarez for it.

This.

Real questions need to be asked over the FA's involvement with Manure United and the preferential treatment they have received as a club over the years.

F**k me if it was me I would be getting an independent body to start investigating this s**t as it smells more fishy than a seafood restaurant kitchen.

[metalhead]

178. Mr Evra stated that the goalmouth incident started when he addressed Mr Suarez, beginning with the phrase "Concha de tu hermana". According to the experts, the literal
translation is "your sister's c*nt" and it can be taken as a general swear word expressing anger, although the word "concha" is not as taboo as the English word "c*nt". It is thus equivalent to "f*cking hell" or "f*ck me". If directed at someone in particular, it can also be
understood as "[you] son of a bitch".

---

whats really interesting in this that you can take the spanish insult above in many different forms or way in the english language so its not deemed as offensive, so if Evra said in spanish your ''sister's c*nt'' he doesn't really mean that but it means something else.

CAN ANYONE NOT SEE THE HYPOCRACY AND DOUBLE STANDARD IN THIS ONE! so can't suarez say ''Negro'' but he actually means something else and he isn't saying a racist offending word? he just said black, is black a racist word?

[Greavesie]

Read the report mate, if Suarez deemed unreliable then Evra is credible?

For me the main argument is about insulting words or behavior.

Lets take for instance the reason why the whole thing came about. Evra made a comment about a member of Suarez' family. Now for that alone shouldn't Evra be punished? A similar incident happened between Zidane and Materazzi did it not? So Evra knew what he said would get a response out of Suarez. So Suarez did respond, and not in a clever manner either, but clever enough to raise questions about the manner in which he responded. If the club don't appeal then we have to accept Suarez has been charged with racist comments. Now maybe in Uruguay they don't take what Suarez came out with as personal, but Suarez knew Evra would take offence.

Its handbags, and as the Liverpool statement pointed out, Suarez said he didn't hear the insults from Evra, when clearly he did. He decided to leave it on the pitch. Whereas Evra hasn't. I'm not saying what Suarez said should be excused, it shouldn't, and he should be punished. But Evra should also be punished for instigating the whole thing in the first place and getting personal.

What makes it worse now is the fact that Suarez said he didn't hear the insults, so he cannot now put in a charge of his own against Evra for the insults he came out with.

Bold part : we don't know that, according to the report Suarez denies it by saying "why, black" (given its being spoken in spanish). We can form a lot of theories of what happened, but there is no solid evidence that Suarez came up to Evra and told him "why? Because your black" or " I don't speak to black people".

The FA basically took Evra's story to be more believable than Suarez and banned Suarez for it.

they're the quotes I simply do not believe. I don't think for a second Suarez said 'I don't speak to black people'. No way. I find that incredibly hard to believe given Suarez' background and charitable work.

Nor is there any evidence he said such things, its simply an accusation and because Suarez' account was deemed to be unreliable, he's been done. It's as if the tesitmony has been done the wrong way around, its as if they've right 'right you're guilty', prove otherwise....

Like I said MH, I can defend him from a legal perspective from loads of difference angles, just the face value of it he just shouldnt have used the words he used but if calling a black man black is racist then the world is gonna go to poop

[metalhead]

97. Mr Suarez said that at no point did he use the word "negro" during the exchange with Mr Evra in the goalmouth

Well Greavsie and Maypax are the lawyers.. so can the appeal be successful?

[Greavesie]

97. Mr Suarez said that at no point did he use the word "negro" during the exchange with Mr Evra in the goalmouth

Well Greavsie and Maypax are the lawyers.. so can the appeal be successful?

Like I said MH, it seems to be that Suarez has been told to prove his innocence rather than the other way around. They've lowered the standard of proof as well. If the standard of proof remained 'beyond reasonable doubt' then no court in the land would punish Suarez because there's no way we can have no doubt as to Suarez' intentions.

We can easily point to Evra and say he's provoked it given the comments about the sister and the threat of violence. Though in sport there's always a rule of implied consent towards being hurt in foul tackles and things so I'm not certain how far that would stretch towards insulting one another (thats me off on a tangent). We'd probably need to see the video footage the FA make refence to - afterall, other than word of mouth thats the only real evidence of anything here.

I just find it difficult tbh. I can appreciate what Suarez has done I genuinely can but its as if they've said Evra put in a better performance in the courtroom so he's the winner here - which isn't really an indicator of anything. Evra's being painted in a positive light in all of this and his opening line of 'your sister's pussy' is worthy of a headbutt according to some

The use of the word is also a confusing one riddled with landmines - its easy to talk about interpretations and things so I'll avoid that. I don't understand why the FA have discarded Evra's use of Suarez being South American in a derogatory manner though - unless thats in the report? I'd actually go as far to say that this shows bias towards Evra, afterall this would constitute a breach of the same rule Suarez has been punished for. Racist is racist - its no more serious depending on the victim

certainly grounds for appeal from many angles and I'd love to know where LFC's focal point will sit in the appeal