Liverpool FC Forum

[kazza]

Hendo will probably go down as being one of our best, least appreciated captains ever.

Not sure I agree Reg, I think he is very uninspiring and he just happens to be playing in a very good team even though I really appreciate the shift he puts and the attitude he shows. He is certainly a coach’s type player listening well to instruction and implementing the coach’s wishes but I feel the team carries him rather than him carrying the team, for me a prerequisite for being a captain. Will put in a good performance  here and there but not as consistent as a world class player should be. We have the best spine in football with Allison, VVD, Fabinho and Firmino and he is not a part of that, he can be interchanged easily with Milner, Wijnaldum, Ox, Keita and it won’t really be felt. I think he is still an important cog in this fantastic machine but not a standout.

[red till i die!!]

Hendo will probably go down as being one of our best, least appreciated captains ever.

Not sure I agree Reg, I think he is very uninspiring and he just happens to be playing in a very good team even though I really appreciate the shift he puts and the attitude he shows. He is certainly a coach’s type player listening well to instruction and implementing the coach’s wishes but I feel the team carries him rather than him carrying the team, for me a prerequisite for being a captain. Will put in a good performance  here and there but not as consistent as a world class player should be. We have the best spine in football with Allison, VVD, Fabinho and Firmino and he is not a part of that, he can be interchanged easily with Milner, Wijnaldum, Ox, Keita and it won’t really be felt. I think he is still an important cog in this fantastic machine but not a standout.

Good honest assessment Kazza.

[Reg]

Hendo will probably go down as being one of our best, least appreciated captains ever.

Not sure I agree Reg, I think he is very uninspiring and he just happens to be playing in a very good team even though I really appreciate the shift he puts and the attitude he shows. He is certainly a coach’s type player listening well to instruction and implementing the coach’s wishes but I feel the team carries him rather than him carrying the team, for me a prerequisite for being a captain. Will put in a good performance  here and there but not as consistent as a world class player should be. We have the best spine in football with Allison, VVD, Fabinho and Firmino and he is not a part of that, he can be interchanged easily with Milner, Wijnaldum, Ox, Keita and it won’t really be felt. I think he is still an important cog in this fantastic machine but not a standout.

Good honest assessment Kazza.

I agree! but he's held it together and is obviously respected. Look at Sterling's reaction when he spun round thinking Gomez was behind him and found Hendo... agree he's not world class but sometimes the best leader is a compromise candidate that brings together the different pieces of the jigsaw. I hate that he's prone to sideways and backwards passing but with the quality of the team now that seems to be a thing of the the past.

[Reg]

It’s strange that a lot of people felt the same way about the owners in the first 6-7 years of their tenure here, yet you weren’t as vocal with them as you have been with me. Are you reminding us all on the mistakes they made before Klopp or trying to point something else out? I was wrong on the owners having the ability to bring in Klopp and start a majestic few years under him, so I don’t know where this “never accepting I was wrong” business comes from?

Let's be honest guys, whilst we supported the owners in the early years as they learned football, it was only a monumental shift in policy after they sacked Rodgers to do away with moneyball and start spending what was necessary to build a team that they started to get it right. So criticism of the owners pre-Klopp is justified but also praise in recognising they needed a 180 degree change in policy if they were serious about winning trophies. Overall I'd say over time that eds has been more right than he's been wrong. 

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

It’s strange that a lot of people felt the same way about the owners in the first 6-7 years of their tenure here, yet you weren’t as vocal with them as you have been with me. Are you reminding us all on the mistakes they made before Klopp or trying to point something else out? I was wrong on the owners having the ability to bring in Klopp and start a majestic few years under him, so I don’t know where this “never accepting I was wrong” business comes from?

Let's be honest guys, whilst we supported the owners in the early years as they learned football, it was only a monumental shift in policy after they sacked Rodgers to do away with moneyball and start spending what was necessary to build a team that they started to get it right. So criticism of the owners pre-Klopp is justified but also praise in recognising they needed a 180 degree change in policy if they were serious about winning trophies. Overall I'd say over time that eds has been more right than he's been wrong. 

The owners never used Moneyball - that’s always been fake news

[Reg]

Ok, so what was the strategy pre-Klopp that obviously didn't work?

[kazza]

Ok, so what was the strategy pre-Klopp that obviously didn't work?

Trusting a snake oil salesmen with the future of the club, remember Borini 
Once we had a manager who they could trust they did not shy away from spending.

[devaney]

It’s strange that a lot of people felt the same way about the owners in the first 6-7 years of their tenure here, yet you weren’t as vocal with them as you have been with me. Are you reminding us all on the mistakes they made before Klopp or trying to point something else out? I was wrong on the owners having the ability to bring in Klopp and start a majestic few years under him, so I don’t know where this “never accepting I was wrong” business comes from?

Let's be honest guys, whilst we supported the owners in the early years as they learned football, it was only a monumental shift in policy after they sacked Rodgers to do away with moneyball and start spending what was necessary to build a team that they started to get it right. So criticism of the owners pre-Klopp is justified but also praise in recognising they needed a 180 degree change in policy if they were serious about winning trophies. Overall I'd say over time that eds has been more right than he's been wrong. 

Reg my main gripe with the likes of Eds is more about the pathetic barrage of abuse that they threw at the owners at a time when they had an extremely  difficult job on their hands.  FSG stepped in at a time when we were in dire straits and very close to going into liquidation. After the appalling mistakes made by Hicks and Gillette It was inevitable that it was going to take a number of years to rectify the problems. The ludicrous suggestion made by certain individuals that the likes of John Henry should utilise his own money to sort out the problems of LFC was not only incredibly stupid but amazingly naive.

The transfer committee that was in existence during Rogers tenure certainly made a number of mistakes. It should however be remembered that they were responsible for the purchase of both Coutinho and Bobby Firmino.  Okay I fully accept that a stopped clock is right twice a day but the committee deserve a little bit more credit than they were ever given. They were operating in the bargain basement and it was inevitable that some of the decisions were going backfire.

As for Brendan Rodgers has the guy got to win the league with Leicester before some of you actually start realising that he is not the snake oil salesman that you suggest. Let’s face it he went pretty close to winning the league with Liverpool something  that is ignored by a lot of people who simply claim that Suarez was the reason we nearly won the league.  I will never dispute the talent and contribution of Luis Suarez however he was one player in a team managed by Rogers who should be given a lot more credit for what he nearly achieved. Snake oil salesman my ***** !!

[devaney]

It’s strange that a lot of people felt the same way about the owners in the first 6-7 years of their tenure here, yet you weren’t as vocal with them as you have been with me. Are you reminding us all on the mistakes they made before Klopp or trying to point something else out? I was wrong on the owners having the ability to bring in Klopp and start a majestic few years under him, so I don’t know where this “never accepting I was wrong” business comes from?

Let's be honest guys, whilst we supported the owners in the early years as they learned football, it was only a monumental shift in policy after they sacked Rodgers to do away with moneyball and start spending what was necessary to build a team that they started to get it right. So criticism of the owners pre-Klopp is justified but also praise in recognising they needed a 180 degree change in policy if they were serious about winning trophies. Overall I'd say over time that eds has been more right than he's been wrong. 

Reg my main gripe with the likes of Eds is more about the pathetic barrage of abuse that they threw at the owners at a time when they had an extremely difficult job on their hands. And lets face it Eds took the abuse to an annoyingly new level.  FSG stepped in at a time when we were in dire straits and very close to going into liquidation. After the appalling mistakes made by Hicks and Gillette It was inevitable that it was going to take a number of years to rectify the problems. The ludicrous suggestion made by certain individuals that the likes of John Henry should utilise his own money to sort out the problems of LFC was not only incredibly stupid but amazingly naive.

The transfer committee that was in existence during Rogers tenure certainly made a number of mistakes. It should however be remembered that they were responsible for the purchase of both Coutinho and Bobby Firmino.  Okay I fully accept that a stopped clock is right twice a day but the committee deserve a little bit more credit than they were ever given. They were operating in the bargain basement and it was inevitable that some of the decisions were going backfire.

As for Brendan Rodgers has the guy got to win the league with Leicester before some of you actually start realising that he is not the snake oil salesman that you suggest. Let’s face it he went pretty close to winning the league with Liverpool something  that is ignored by a lot of people who simply claim that Suarez was the reason we nearly won the league.  I will never dispute the talent and contribution of Luis Suarez however he was one player in a team managed by Rogers who should be given a lot more credit for what he nearly achieved. Snake oil salesman my ***** !!

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Ok, so what was the strategy pre-Klopp that obviously didn't work?

The transfer committee with a new manager who didn’t have that good an eye for a player or contacts

The transfer committee is still there it’s just working better with Klopp having the overall say.

[Reg]

Yeah, our early attempts at forming a transfer committee wasn't good, remember Dominic Comolli, ex-Spurs?

[eds]

As Reg has kindly pointed out to you Dev, I was right about the owners all along. 

They made some pretty big blunders running this club in the first 4-5 years of their tenure. I don't know why you are so obsessed in defending them for everything, like their some infallible higher entity.

It's the same morbid obsession Lallana in Pajama has with Henderson. I have always imagined the kid goes to bed in a full Henderson bed spread wearing Henderson (not Lallana) Pajamas as well. I wonder if your bedroom is decked out with John Henry fandom?   

Anyway everything  changed when they brought in Klopp and for once actually started doing what they should have done all along, taking more calculated risks in the market and letting our manager invest in quality players not a scatter gun bs approach that brought in dross like Borini, Markovic, Moreno, the list goes on.......

That's exactly what Reg and I were going on about circa 2015-2016 and here we are in this wonderful position because that's exactly what we started doing.

As for the snake oil peddler, who the hell cares what he does. He's an average manager that has currently got lucky with Leicester but will never amount to anything. Winning some league titles with a club that wins it every year in Scotland won't change anyone's minds.

Dev how many times do I need to tell you to calm down, have a coke, enjoy this season for what is and stop bickering about silly s**t.........

FFS enjoy being a reds fan like the rest of us.

[devaney]

Eds I think wether you were right or wrong in the eyes of Reg is somewhat irrelevant. You both share a similar viewpoint with regards to the owners one that I disagreed with and still do. Reg however expressed himself in an adult like manner.You on the other hand behaved like a spoilt two year old. At every opportunity you threw your dummy out of the pram and hurled an incredible amount of unacceptable abuse at the owners and that is the key reason why perhaps your childish posts got up my nose. If you think I'm being unreasonable then take a look at some of your old posts. We all get frustrated mate but some of us manage to maintain a level of control. Take a look at the number of people that regular post on this forum. To be frank people including myself get fed up with reading a lot of dross and unsurprisingly they disappear. 

Perhaps if all your posts were similar to the above I wouldn't have a problem.

As for Lallana I would much prefer somebody that defends a player to the hilt rather than a perennial whinge bag.

As for Rogers, of course how silly of me all of his success is down to luck. You sound like a Man City supporter talking about how we achieved 97 points last season, our 12 match unbeaten run this season and how we won the CL !!

And as for the season don't worry I'm enjoying it and most of the time at Anfield rather than an armchair !!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

To be fair to Eds the owners did make a lot of mistakes when they first arrived, someone mentioned the appointment of Comoli and the transfer committee etc but the things which stand out for me are the PR disasters.
The big one was obviously the Suarez/Evra thing, they allowed that to get abysmally out of control to the point where there were even questions in parliament about it and prime ministers and presidents from 2 continents got involved, it even made the nightly news over in the U.S, they turned a football related incident into a diplomatic one.
Everything they did seemed to turn into a saga, remember all the carry on before Brendan's appointment with John Henry being photographed with Roberto Martinez in Miami or somewhere and Dave Whelan giving hourly updates on Sky, then there was the DoF carry on, they were going to appoint someone Rafa had brought over from Barcelona (who had done a great job with the academy) to be director of football but withdrew their job offer after the fella had already accepted, he stormed off in a huff saying he couldn't work for such unprofessional people.
Then there was the time when JH had to write an open letter to the fans after they sold Andy Carroll and left us without a recognised CF for 6 months.
They didn't handle the sacking of Kenny well either, then there was that ridiculous fly on the wall documentary that had Ian Ayer riding around town like Marlon Brando in the Wild One's and got Brendan saddled with the nickname David Brent. This is all just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's loads more, didn't the fans walk out on 77 minutes over something as well?
To be fair to them though by hook or by crook they got there eventually, deciding to stay at Anfield and appointing Jurgen Klopp are 2 of the best decisions this club has made in its near 130 year history. The decision to stay at Anfield is so huge that it's hard to find the words with my sh1tty education to thank them enough.
If FSG can add a league title to the CL and talk Jurgen into staying long term then that Shankly-ism about there being a holy trinity in football between the fans, players and manager might have to expanded to include the owners as well.
Despite their catalogue of f**k up's if FSG left tomorrow they would be leaving the club in a far, far, far better state than when they found it which is the ultimate judgement on ownership I suppose.

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Imagine people brand new to football making mistakes , ffs the previous owners made loads of mistakes , the ones before that made loads of mistakes - it happens


But ultimately their main aim was always to make the club a success and do it Standing on its own


People will be critical of early signings but inbetween that dross there was also some quality signed - Coutinho , Suarez , Sturridge , Henderson , Lallana , Lovren , Origi , Can , Gomez , Firmino - all players key to our success over the years under the owners.

The issue will always - they are american and people will always expect them to spend like City