Luis Suarez signs for Barcelona

International Football/Football World Wide - General Discussion

Postby LFC2007 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:32 pm

Reg » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:53 am wrote:Tell you what, he's a first class trouble maker.  Biting at Ajax and here, sent off for hand ball in the world cup, the Evra incident, transfer rumours last year, this year etc... he's a pain in the feckin' ar$e really. 'High maintenance'.


That'll be £50m worth of 'high maintenance' thank you very much   :)

Our best hope could be that he gives us another season, this time having a stormer but helping us into the CL. Then we sell for silly money while there's still a couple of years left on his contract and use that and the lure of CL football, plus the additional revenue, to build a squad capable of remaining there and pushing on to bigger and better things in the years to come.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:50 pm

Just try and imagine the negotiations...'sorry, the fellas a bite risk, deduct another £5m'  :laugh:
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:56 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:50 am wrote:Torres also signed a new contract just before he left also

Yes he signed a new contract to allow himself to get a lot more wages and possibly add in a release clause. Players only sign new contracts that benefit themselves.

I'm pretty sure that you are not that niave to believe modern players when they declare love for clubs etc.

Again Torres and Masher etc declared their love blah and at the first chance they were gone ! What makes Suarez any different ?

I'm not ignoring anything he says about "off" the pitch - I just don't believe him

Remember his words not so long ago - the media don't bother me , I just ignore them.

He can blame the off field stuff ( of which he must take some responsibility for ) as much as wants - he is a modern footballer - experience shows me that I can take his words with a pinch of salt.


Torres felt let down by the club because Rafa was sacked by twit and tw@t and thats why he left, and went to chelsea of all places
:no
This is a totally different scenario and yet you are determined to prove your point with dubious evidence
You are stuck in your mind set and you cant escape it. Youre a prisoner to your affliction
:nod

By the way when was the last time Fail Madrid were in the CL final?
???
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Postby CardinalRed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:08 pm

Compelling arguments on Football 365.com.....
"Should Liverpool take this opportunity to cash in on their most valuable asset, or cling on to their best player? Here are the arguments for and against.
Sell him?
Luis Suarez has, quite frankly, become a liability. He has received bans totalling 19 games in his time in England (which isn't counting one carried over from a suspension in Holland when he arrived) without ever being sent off. He is, if nothing else, creative about how he makes himself unavailable for Liverpool.
The point about his status as a liability is that it's entirely unpredictable, the biting incident occurred on the day an interview was published in which he said he was watching how he behaved on the pitch. Liverpool, frankly, have no idea what stupid thing he's going to do next.
Of course, lots of brilliant players are unpredictable, so why would Liverpool sell their most talented striker and top-scorer? The easy answer to that is that he is not as crucial to the side as you might think - while statistics like this are flawed, Liverpool's win ratio with him in the side is 39%, while it is 62% without him. The latter figure probably has too low a sample size to be truly reliable, but it does at least illustrate that Liverpool are not fumbling in the dark without Suarez. They won three of the four games after his suspension at the end of the season, producing arguably their most impressive performance (the demolition of Newcastle) in the process, with Daniel Sturridge scoring five times. Indeed the ever marvellous Opta Joe tweeted recently that 'Without Luis Suarez's goals this season, Liverpool would still have finished seventh in the Premier League table. Depth.'
American writer Bill Simmons is fond of 'The Ewing Theory', the basic concept of which you'll be familiar with - when a team loses a star player upon whom they have seemingly be reliant, said team actually becomes a better 'team'. Of course, that theory has rather inconsistent examples to back it up, but in this case it could apply. If the evidence of the second half of last season is anything to go by, in Sturridge Liverpool potentially have a player to take the goal-scoring burden away from Suarez, and in Phillipe Coutinho a player to replace his creativity.
In any case, losing your best player is not necessarily a sign that the end is nigh. Borussia Dortmund have lost key men in recent years and have only been denied by potentially the next great side of this generation, while Spurs have sold the likes of Michael Carrick, Dimitar Berbatov, Luka Modric and Rafa van der Vaart, have rebuilt and have flourished.
Suarez's wastefulness is also a factor - he scored plenty of goals last season, but he also took a boatload of shots to get them. He had 187 attempts, the most in the Premier League and more than double the amount of Steven Gerrard, the next on Liverpool's list, and in three fewer games too. Even casual observers of Liverpool could tell you that in many of those shooting scenarios, a better-placed teammate was left frustrated and unused.
And then of course there's the money. The going rate for a player of Suarez's ability is around £50million, and with Real Madrid in all likelihood looking to make a transfer splash (they have a presidential election this summer, and will no doubt be smarting after missing out on Neymar), that's a perfectly realistic valuation. With that money, a team could be rebuilt. Liverpool need a new centre-back, possibly a new goalkeeper, maybe a midfielder/winger and another striker. With the £50million, plus any other cash they raise, they could be in quite a position.
Finally, keeping hold of Suarez this summer may simply be a case of delaying the inevitable. Suarez will, in all likelihood, want to leave Liverpool in the next few years, unless something extraordinary happens next season. Selling him now while his playing stock is still high may be the most prudent option. That said...
Keep him?
Selling one player for £50million and replacing him with three £15million-ish players is all well and good, but the simple fact remains that that Liverpool would be releasing one of the top talents in the world. When you have a gem, you do everything you can to hang onto him. On an individual basis, Suarez is irreplaceable - anyone available to Liverpool will be an inferior player, so at the most simplistic level, selling Suarez will make Liverpool's team worse.
In any case, if they get £50million for their man, can Liverpool be trusted to spend it wisely? Their recruitment policy of late has of course been rather better than in years past, but even if you forget that the people in charge are the same ones who spent around £25million on Joe Allen and Fabio Borini, all transfers are a risk. You don't know how a particular player will settle, so trading a sure thing (taking only on-field ability into account, at least) for gambles will be, well...a gamble.
And then of course one has to consider that Liverpool might not get £50million. The moment Suarez publically said he wanted to leave, his value diminished. The quick 'Not for sale' declaration did some good, but let us not forget that they have a 'tarnished' player on their hands. In terms of his talent Suarez is easily worth top dollar, but a prospective buyer could well factor in his unpredictability and the more unpleasant aspects of his character and adjust the fee accordingly. Indeed, initial reports suggest that Real Madrid won't go above £25million, which by rights should be laughed off the negotiating table, but they may feel that Suarez's words and actions put them in a stronger position. So if Liverpool cannot get a fee that reflects how valuable Suarez is to them, there seems little point in selling.
Indeed, if Liverpool need money to fix their squad, there are perhaps other sources for it. While they will make a loss on Andy Carroll, his transfer should bring in something like £15million, while Martin Skrtel and Pepe Reina (despite their declines in form) should also raise a few quid. If it comes to a straight choice of accepting £25million for Suarez, or around that figure for two or three of the players mentioned, it becomes something of a no-brainer.
Then we come to symbolism. Liverpool are of course trying, desperately trying, to regain their place in the Champions League, and from there return to the heights they reached before. So what sort of message would selling their best player send in that context? They will be unquestionably identified as a selling club - what if Coutinho, or Raheem Sterling, or even someone like Suso has a sensational 2013/14 but Liverpool still finish sixth? They will be known as a soft touch, a buffet for bigger and richer clubs, but if they dig in over Suarez, then this perception will be changed.
There's the fans as well. Danny Baker once said about Paul Gascoigne that players do not make crowds gasp these days, but he did. Suarez makes crowds gasp, and few excite a group of fans like he excites the Kop. This might appear unimportant and intangible, but it isn't. Having a player the fans can feel for, can look forward to watching rather than simply appreciating their functionality, is crucial in this age when the gap between crowd and player has never been wider. To paraphrase Danny Blanchflower, Liverpool have to win, but it's also important to do things in style, with a flourish, to go out and beat the other lot, not wait for them to die of boredom. You'll never die of boredom when Suarez is around. Most Liverpool fans recognise that he is basically a *****, but he's their ***** - every club either has or had one of those down the years, and it's something incredibly powerful.......
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:21 pm

some good arguments there CR but imo we should sell him and move on. once a player starts saying his family is unhappy then it`s only a matter of time before he goes.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:29 pm

Thommo's perm » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:56 pm wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:50 am wrote:Torres also signed a new contract just before he left also

Yes he signed a new contract to allow himself to get a lot more wages and possibly add in a release clause. Players only sign new contracts that benefit themselves.

I'm pretty sure that you are not that niave to believe modern players when they declare love for clubs etc.

Again Torres and Masher etc declared their love blah and at the first chance they were gone ! What makes Suarez any different ?

I'm not ignoring anything he says about "off" the pitch - I just don't believe him

Remember his words not so long ago - the media don't bother me , I just ignore them.

He can blame the off field stuff ( of which he must take some responsibility for ) as much as wants - he is a modern footballer - experience shows me that I can take his words with a pinch of salt.


Torres felt let down by the club because Rafa was sacked by twit and tw@t and thats why he left, and went to chelsea of all places
:no
This is a totally different scenario and yet you are determined to prove your point with dubious evidence
You are stuck in your mind set and you cant escape it. Youre a prisoner to your affliction
:nod

By the way when was the last time Fail Madrid were in the CL final?
???


What does Madrid last  being in the CL final have to do with anything ?

Last season they won La Liga and this year it was CL semis

I think it was 2003 they last won the CL

They are in it every season and always in the knockout rounds and pick up trophies every season pretty much. Players pick up a nice haul of medals there as well as good money.

They offer everything we can't and everything the top players want - success.
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Postby eds » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:26 pm

Amazing that the 18 games suspension is being bandied about without any context.

When you break it down, its basically falls into 2 major incidents.

One was purely manufactured by Merchandise United and Whiskey Nose, probably the greatest con the game has ever seen as it somehow turned some of the lemmings on this forum against their own club.

The another for an incident which has never seen the likes of 10 game ban EVER being applied to one player and has usually not seen players even suspended.

Mind boggling stuff.  :laugh:
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Postby Doc Lashed » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:23 am

You know what, I’m not going to pass judgement on the fella.
Maybe he does truly feel like the media and the English FA have made his stay in England untenable.
Maybe he HAS been tapped up by Real Madrid and his wife is bending his ear to move to Spain.
Whatever the truth, and we’ll never really know, he has said. “I WANT TO MOVE ON FROM LIVERPOOL”. He’s said it now and it can’t be unsaid.

Lets not dwell on this. He wants to move on from a club that is more than a religion and a way of life to the fans who stand on the terrace. To the fans who live their life on every heartbeat and breathe of the club. How can he come back? A bad performance and we’ll all be saying he’s not the same and fishing for a move.

Lets get as much as we can and move on. LFC. More than just one man.
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Postby maguskwt » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:28 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:21 pm wrote:some good arguments there CR but imo we should sell him and move on. once a player starts saying his family is unhappy then it`s only a matter of time before he goes.


I'm actually warming up to the idea of Higuain being part of the deal. He may not be as tricky as Suarez, but his finishing is probably better. He has more of a typical striker's finish. Of course BR would need to talk to him and ensure that he wants to play for us and in the premier league.

If he was part of the deal, how much additional cash would we accept to make it an acceptable trade? Higuain + 10 million? I believe in the end, it will be a matter of perception how the clubs value the players. Higuain has been scoring goals for Real as well for quite a number of seasons (Wikipedia states 107 goals from 190 appearances, more than 0.5 ratio). But he seems to be under the radar due to more popular players like ronaldo taking the lime light. Right now Florentino Perez would have been looking at the premier league and Bale and Suarez are the so-called talk of the town. So we might  even be able to value Suarez higher than Higuain.
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Postby Reg » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:54 am

I struggle to see why a player like Higuain would want to come to Liverpool, the two profiles don't match, lets be realistic.
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Postby laza » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:31 am

If he wants to go then let's get s shitload of money for him (and Xabi on a free) sooner rather then later so we don't make some later summer panic buy and get another Carroll mkII
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Postby maguskwt » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:02 am

Reg » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:54 am wrote:I struggle to see why a player like Higuain would want to come to Liverpool, the two profiles don't match, lets be realistic.


don't understand... why don't they  match? That would be saying Suarez and Liverpool profiles do not match as well...
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:35 am

maguskwt » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:02 am wrote:
Reg » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:54 am wrote:I struggle to see why a player like Higuain would want to come to Liverpool, the two profiles don't match, lets be realistic.


don't understand... why don't they  match? That would be saying Suarez and Liverpool profiles do not match as well...


They don't match because we can't currently provide CL footy or very high wages.

The reasons of us struggling to get players like Higuain are the same reasons I believe Suarez wants to leave

Currently teams like Juve are looking at Higuain - what reason would he chose us over them ?
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Postby eds » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:21 am

Reg » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:54 am wrote:I struggle to see why a player like Higuain would want to come to Liverpool, the two profiles don't match, lets be realistic.


Agree.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:26 am

i`m not convinced higuian is that good either, madrid boss 90% of the matches they play in spain and any half decent forward is going to get a hat full in those circumstances.
then there would be the problem of trying to shoehorn him and sturridge into the same line up. both prefer to play central.
i think that luis muriel should be our number 1 target, he would be another coutinho type signing, he`s young with all the potential in the world.
he`s a natural wide forward with pace to burn who has scored goals in serie a at a ratio of 1/2. he`s won young player of the year in italy too.
he`s perfect for the system we like to play as well and his game would compliment sturridges and coutinho`s.

                                                                                          BEGOVIC

                                           johnson/kelly       PAPADOPOLOUS      agger         enrique

                                                                           gerrard                 DIAME

                                                                                        coutinho

                                                              BRIAN RUIZ          sturridge          MURIEL

i think something like that is realistic, papadopolous would cost about £12m, diame about £5m, begovic maybe £10m, ruiz about £12m and muriel £20m.
if we sold suarez and carroll we could put that side together and still make a profit in the transfer window.
if you sold the likes of skrtel, coates, spearing etc as well you`d make a big profit!
i think that side would get into the top 4 at the very least.
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