I think Roy did a great job. He was never gonna win the Euro's , he knew that but he has started the ball rolling towards a better future for England.
As for the Italy game, Rooney shouldn't of started. the big fat fuk.
Euro 2012 thread
by Kenny Kan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:40 pm
30 Cristiano Ronaldo has had more shots in his first four games at Euro 2012 than the entire England squad (29) had at the tournament
20 Italy had more shots on target in their quarter-final match than England had in total in their four matches in Ukraine
88 England conceded more than twice as many shots to France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy than they had against those teams
39 England had on average 39% of the possession in their four games, their lowest figure at a tournament since Euro 1980
29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate
300 England averaged 300 passes per match. The four semi-finalists have averaged 479
15 England completed only 15 passes in the 15 minutes of the second period of extra-time against Italy
18 England's most successful passing combination against Italy was the goalkeeper Joe Hart to the substitute striker Andy Carroll
115 Andrea Pirlo had more passes against England than England's four starting midfielders had against Italy
18 Mesut Ozil has created 18 chances in Germany's four games. Steven Gerrard, England's most prolific chance creator, has made six
102 England ran on average 102km in their four matches. Italy ran 7.5km further on average per match
86 England have had the most tackles in the tournament, with Steven Gerrard's 18 the most of any player
29 England have blocked the most shots at Euro 2012, 17 more than Italy, 19 more than Germany, 21 more than Portugal and 24 more than Spain
20 Italy had more shots on target in their quarter-final match than England had in total in their four matches in Ukraine
88 England conceded more than twice as many shots to France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy than they had against those teams
39 England had on average 39% of the possession in their four games, their lowest figure at a tournament since Euro 1980
29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate
300 England averaged 300 passes per match. The four semi-finalists have averaged 479
15 England completed only 15 passes in the 15 minutes of the second period of extra-time against Italy
18 England's most successful passing combination against Italy was the goalkeeper Joe Hart to the substitute striker Andy Carroll
115 Andrea Pirlo had more passes against England than England's four starting midfielders had against Italy
18 Mesut Ozil has created 18 chances in Germany's four games. Steven Gerrard, England's most prolific chance creator, has made six
102 England ran on average 102km in their four matches. Italy ran 7.5km further on average per match
86 England have had the most tackles in the tournament, with Steven Gerrard's 18 the most of any player
29 England have blocked the most shots at Euro 2012, 17 more than Italy, 19 more than Germany, 21 more than Portugal and 24 more than Spain
Champions of England 2020.
YNWA
YNWA
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by Kenny Kan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:55 pm
Roger Red Hat » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:17 am wrote:I think Roy did a great job. He was never gonna win the Euro's , he knew that but he has started the ball rolling towards a better future for England.
As for the Italy game, Rooney shouldn't of started. the big fat fuk.
Overall I'd say he did a good job. He didn't have much preparation time so this goes in his favour when getting England to the QF.
He did organise the team, make them hard to beat, tight and compact. To many managers though, ones like Rafa and Houllier even, or Mourinhio this is a fundamental game- plan to their overall picture of how a team should play, in other words, that's their foundation and they build upon that. Unfortunately for Hodgson though that is his ENTIRE game-plan, nothing more will be built upon these 'fundamentals'.
Champions of England 2020.
YNWA
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by Boocity » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:51 pm
Benny The Noon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:32 am wrote:Kharhaz » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:53 am wrote:Roy Hodgson played defensive football and is been ripped apart for having outdated tactics that dont work in todays game.
Roberto Di Matteo does the same at Chelsea and gets a contract as manager of Chelsea.
D
The mind boggles.
England had the one guy behind the striker looking fat and useless.
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by jacdaniel » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:06 pm
Rafa's opinion on England. Love listening to Rafa talk football!
Rafael Benitez: England have the talent – but not the philosophy
How can you play the Barcelona way if you don't have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi? It is better to decide on a system
RAFAEL BENITEZ TUESDAY 26 JUNE 2012
That was a very good experience for the young English players, however disheartened they may have been as they came home yesterday. Going into extra time and penalties in a tournament quarter-final like that will serve them well. But the Italians had more quality – we can't ignore that – and though the Football Association is trying to change things, we cannot disguise that it is still a long way off creating a system which enables England's players to compete with the very best in Europe, or the world.
I think Italy had an incentive to prove on Sunday night that their football is good, because they are no longer on top in the Champions League competitions now, and they really did demonstrate the technical distance between the two nations. There are many changes required in the way this country develops its young players. To make them more competitive, England above all need the clubs to decide on the style of football they want to play, from academy right through to first team. They must then coach the coaches in that style and then coach the players.
For me, there is a very big weakness in the system when the players reach 18. At that age, a player in England who is not quite at the required level to play in the Premier League has to go off on loan to a League One or Two team, where it is very difficult for him to develop the basic skills in the way he would at his club. The style and standard of coaching will probably just not be the same.
Those players who are of a slightly better standard but still not quite good enough to play in the Premier League will end up sitting on the first-team bench, and could be stuck there for years. Take Scott Carson, for example. He was the best player at Leeds United and then joined us at Liverpool, but he hardly played a game for three years.
When I arrived at Liverpool, this problem struck me and I said that our reserve team should play in the Football League pyramid. I wanted to use the experience of my years as a player and manager of the Real Madrid reserve team, which played in the Spanish second division. Joining the pyramid was important, but nobody wanted to hear or listen and I was told that I was going against an English tradition by suggesting this. I think people can see the problem a little clearer now.
If we assume the English reserve teams will not be allowed to compete in the pyramid, the only way to create matches for these young players is by making the Reserve League a proper Under-21 national competition, which allows teams to select a limited number of first-team players to help them recover from injury or keep match-fit. I know the Premier League is working on this for next season. It must be a competitive Under-21 league in spirit.
But it is the introduction of the same style of play throughout a club – and seriously investing in the coaching system to make that happen – which underpins the creation of more technically equipped players, and it was in the final year at Liverpool that we linked the academy and club more closely to make that possible.
There are plenty of myths about this idea of one style of football running throughout the club. For example, just because Barcelona have become such a successful club, everybody now talks about wanting to play "like Barcelona". But we were talking about having a consistent style throughout the club at Real Madrid over 15 years ago. How can you play "the Barcelona way" if you don't have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi?
It is more realistic to decide on a system; deciding, for instance, that you want to play the ball on the floor, not in the air, and then you need to create a philosophy at your club where everyone has the same one. You stick to it, no matter who is manager, and you appoint a manager with that vision. (If it's a non-football person who decides on the vision, it could be a problem.)
At Liverpool, we created this link between the academy and the first team by appointing Pep Segura, who had been at Barcelona, as the academy's technical director, with Rodolfo Borrell as Under-18s coach. We agreed which systems we would use and which style. In England, the individuals who are asked to coach the coaches and help spread the playing philosophy are very, very important. You can't just work with computers and databases of young footballers.
I have also been advocating for several years that clubs should be allowed to recruit young players from anywhere and that change, now allowed for in the Premier League EPPP document, cannot come soon enough. At Real Madrid, we trialled hundreds of boys a year from Madrid and all over Spain. If the best cannot work with the best, they will not progress.
I don't think England should be too worried about the number of overseas players in the Premier League. The country's young footballers can learn from those players, their different styles and ideas. And I don't think that the 4-4-2 system which Roy Hodgson used at the European Championship will prevent technically talented players being put to best use for the national side. The 4-4-2 style can become 4-2-3-1 when a team attacks. It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system.
It is a question of what you want to do when you are in possession and what you want to do when you are not in possession. It is about people having more ambition, more confidence in their game to try things out and to get into the box. The improvement in basic technical skill that we are talking about and the confidence in a philosophy which is instilled into players will solve the problems. I have been saying this for a number of years but it is very hard to be heard sometimes!
England have to look forward. Finding top players is not the problem. The potential is out there, all around. It is how to develop it which people should be talking about.
Miki's death puts Euros in perspective
The death at the weekend of one of the first players I signed at Liverpool, Miki Roque, has really put the European Championship into perspective for me.
It was a shock, because when I was in contact with Miki's family after he was diagnosed with a tumour in his pelvis last year it seemed that the operation had gone well.
He came to us from a modest level of Spanish football and threw himself into English life.
Of all the Spanish players I have signed, I don't know if any had such good as English as Miki.
He came on in the Champions League for us at Galatasaray and in the end he returned to Spain to further his career at Real Betis.
He was a friend of our Austrian forward Besian Idrizaj, another player whose life was lost when he suffered a heart attack, two years ago. The game of football really is the most insignificant thing. Rest in peace, Miki.
Rafael Benitez: England have the talent – but not the philosophy
How can you play the Barcelona way if you don't have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi? It is better to decide on a system
RAFAEL BENITEZ TUESDAY 26 JUNE 2012
That was a very good experience for the young English players, however disheartened they may have been as they came home yesterday. Going into extra time and penalties in a tournament quarter-final like that will serve them well. But the Italians had more quality – we can't ignore that – and though the Football Association is trying to change things, we cannot disguise that it is still a long way off creating a system which enables England's players to compete with the very best in Europe, or the world.
I think Italy had an incentive to prove on Sunday night that their football is good, because they are no longer on top in the Champions League competitions now, and they really did demonstrate the technical distance between the two nations. There are many changes required in the way this country develops its young players. To make them more competitive, England above all need the clubs to decide on the style of football they want to play, from academy right through to first team. They must then coach the coaches in that style and then coach the players.
For me, there is a very big weakness in the system when the players reach 18. At that age, a player in England who is not quite at the required level to play in the Premier League has to go off on loan to a League One or Two team, where it is very difficult for him to develop the basic skills in the way he would at his club. The style and standard of coaching will probably just not be the same.
Those players who are of a slightly better standard but still not quite good enough to play in the Premier League will end up sitting on the first-team bench, and could be stuck there for years. Take Scott Carson, for example. He was the best player at Leeds United and then joined us at Liverpool, but he hardly played a game for three years.
When I arrived at Liverpool, this problem struck me and I said that our reserve team should play in the Football League pyramid. I wanted to use the experience of my years as a player and manager of the Real Madrid reserve team, which played in the Spanish second division. Joining the pyramid was important, but nobody wanted to hear or listen and I was told that I was going against an English tradition by suggesting this. I think people can see the problem a little clearer now.
If we assume the English reserve teams will not be allowed to compete in the pyramid, the only way to create matches for these young players is by making the Reserve League a proper Under-21 national competition, which allows teams to select a limited number of first-team players to help them recover from injury or keep match-fit. I know the Premier League is working on this for next season. It must be a competitive Under-21 league in spirit.
But it is the introduction of the same style of play throughout a club – and seriously investing in the coaching system to make that happen – which underpins the creation of more technically equipped players, and it was in the final year at Liverpool that we linked the academy and club more closely to make that possible.
There are plenty of myths about this idea of one style of football running throughout the club. For example, just because Barcelona have become such a successful club, everybody now talks about wanting to play "like Barcelona". But we were talking about having a consistent style throughout the club at Real Madrid over 15 years ago. How can you play "the Barcelona way" if you don't have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi?
It is more realistic to decide on a system; deciding, for instance, that you want to play the ball on the floor, not in the air, and then you need to create a philosophy at your club where everyone has the same one. You stick to it, no matter who is manager, and you appoint a manager with that vision. (If it's a non-football person who decides on the vision, it could be a problem.)
At Liverpool, we created this link between the academy and the first team by appointing Pep Segura, who had been at Barcelona, as the academy's technical director, with Rodolfo Borrell as Under-18s coach. We agreed which systems we would use and which style. In England, the individuals who are asked to coach the coaches and help spread the playing philosophy are very, very important. You can't just work with computers and databases of young footballers.
I have also been advocating for several years that clubs should be allowed to recruit young players from anywhere and that change, now allowed for in the Premier League EPPP document, cannot come soon enough. At Real Madrid, we trialled hundreds of boys a year from Madrid and all over Spain. If the best cannot work with the best, they will not progress.
I don't think England should be too worried about the number of overseas players in the Premier League. The country's young footballers can learn from those players, their different styles and ideas. And I don't think that the 4-4-2 system which Roy Hodgson used at the European Championship will prevent technically talented players being put to best use for the national side. The 4-4-2 style can become 4-2-3-1 when a team attacks. It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system.
It is a question of what you want to do when you are in possession and what you want to do when you are not in possession. It is about people having more ambition, more confidence in their game to try things out and to get into the box. The improvement in basic technical skill that we are talking about and the confidence in a philosophy which is instilled into players will solve the problems. I have been saying this for a number of years but it is very hard to be heard sometimes!
England have to look forward. Finding top players is not the problem. The potential is out there, all around. It is how to develop it which people should be talking about.
Miki's death puts Euros in perspective
The death at the weekend of one of the first players I signed at Liverpool, Miki Roque, has really put the European Championship into perspective for me.
It was a shock, because when I was in contact with Miki's family after he was diagnosed with a tumour in his pelvis last year it seemed that the operation had gone well.
He came to us from a modest level of Spanish football and threw himself into English life.
Of all the Spanish players I have signed, I don't know if any had such good as English as Miki.
He came on in the Champions League for us at Galatasaray and in the end he returned to Spain to further his career at Real Betis.
He was a friend of our Austrian forward Besian Idrizaj, another player whose life was lost when he suffered a heart attack, two years ago. The game of football really is the most insignificant thing. Rest in peace, Miki.
"When you walk, through a storm, hold your head up high"
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jacdaniel - LFC Super Member
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by LFC2007 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:02 pm
Kenny Kan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:55 am wrote:Overall I'd say he did a good job. He didn't have much preparation time so this goes in his favour when getting England to the QF.
He did organise the team, make them hard to beat, tight and compact. To many managers though, ones like Rafa and Houllier even, or Mourinhio this is a fundamental game- plan to their overall picture of how a team should play, in other words, that's their foundation and they build upon that. Unfortunately for Hodgson though that is his ENTIRE game-plan, nothing more will be built upon these 'fundamentals'.
I tend to agree with that. Considering when he took over, what he inherited and what he was up against, it was an OK effort to win the group and reach the QF, and despite the performance against Italy, to still manage to take that game to penalties. There were those who doubted England's ability even to qualify from the group stage and there were those who expected a total capitulation but so far as the results were concerned, that never materialised and it was because England held it together from a defensive point of view. Roy deserves some credit for that. As you say, though, being hard to beat will only take you so far. To go far in these tournaments, you've got to carry much more of a threat in the attack, and that starts with having possession of the ball and then being clinical with what chances you create. England had nothing like the level of possession needed to create the chances to give them a realistic hope of progressing past the Italians.
That was partly inevitable I think given the difference in technical ability between the two sides, but I don't accept that this chronic inability to keep the ball/create chances by players we've seen perform so much better in the Premier League is simply down to a lack of technical ability. I doubt even the most biased Liverpool fan would argue that the likes of Rooney, Welbeck and Young are as poor for Man U as they were for England. From the manager's point of view, the solution to that problem bears both a tactical and man-management dimension to it. Whether it's instructing those players to play in a different way, or to work on getting greater support in the right places at the right times to provide more options for them in possession, a better balance between the defence and attack could have been achieved with better management. Based on how he set his sides up with Liverpool and with England during the Euros, I have to say that I'm not overly optimistic he'll be able to achieve that.
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by Benny The Noon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:37 pm
Last edited by Benny The Noon on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Benny The Noon
by LFC2007 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm
However amusing you may find it, Benny, you couldn't have failed to notice when copying the link that that picture's been taken from the S*n website and as such has no place on a Liverpool forum. Take it down and stop being a silly tw@t.
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LFC2007 - Posts: 7706
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by Benny The Noon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:03 pm
LFC2007 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm wrote:However amusing you may find it, Benny, you couldn't have failed to notice when copying the link that that picture's been taken from the S*n website and as such has no place on a Liverpool forum. Take it down and stop being a silly tw@t.
Got it from google so changed it to the other link that was on there.
Still crying into your St George flag and ruined your red and white face paint after the most pathetic display of international football i have ever seen from Woy's England.
Were you still delighted to see Gerrard playing out there as he went down injured with cramp and finish the game totally drained - going to be so fresh for his club pre season in a couple of weeks isnt he.
- Benny The Noon
by LFC2007 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:38 pm
Benny The Noon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:03 pm wrote:Got it from google so changed it to the other link that was on there.
Still crying into your St George flag and ruined your red and white face paint after the most pathetic display of international football i have ever seen from Woy's England.
Were you still delighted to see Gerrard playing out there as he went down injured with cramp and finish the game totally drained - going to be so fresh for his club pre season in a couple of weeks isnt he.
The 'new' photo you've posted is simply a copy of the old S*n image, assigned to a new link. As far as I'm concerned, any content that originates from the S*n should be removed from the forum. It's a matter for your conscience, though, whether you choose to post up S*n content and it's up to the mod's if they want to tolerate it. All I can do is point it out.
The rest of your post just underlines once again what a bitter attitude you have towards England, England fans, Roy, Gerrard's ambitions etc. You make all of these comments, spending probably more time than anyone else on the forum criticising Roy, Gerrard and England and all the while you claim only to care about Liverpool. It's laughable but that's you all over really.
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by stmichael » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:27 am
looking forward to the next couple of days. the best 4 teams have got to this stage. unsurprisingly they're the best 4 teams at keeping possession.
portugal have a shot if they can get enough of the ball to nani and ronaldo. if spain dominate however they'll eventually wear portugal down, even if they play without a striker again as expected.
everything is pointing towards a spain-germany final although italy are germany's bogey side.
portugal have a shot if they can get enough of the ball to nani and ronaldo. if spain dominate however they'll eventually wear portugal down, even if they play without a striker again as expected.
everything is pointing towards a spain-germany final although italy are germany's bogey side.
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by Boxscarf » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:23 pm
People say that England's footballers can keep hold of possession, can string passes together, can attack well, can reach the latter stages of major competitions. Now if the England players can do all of these things how comes they haven't done it for well over 14 years? Have England ever played possession football? In the last twenty years how many technically gifted footballers have England produced? Gascoigne, Le Tissier, Scholes and Gerrard? Maybe you could add Redknapp and Beckham to that list as well. So that's 6 players in 22 years and England wonder why they struggle.
If England have technical ability in abundance then why have I never seen it on display? Please bear in mind the first tournament I watched was Euro 1996.
If England have technical ability in abundance then why have I never seen it on display? Please bear in mind the first tournament I watched was Euro 1996.
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by Ben Patrick » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:33 pm
Boxscarf » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:23 pm wrote:People say that England's footballers can keep hold of possession, can string passes together, can attack well, can reach the latter stages of major competitions. Now if the England players can do all of these things how comes they haven't done it for well over 14 years? Have England ever played possession football? In the last twenty years how many technically gifted footballers have England produced? Gascoigne, Le Tissier, Scholes and Gerrard? Maybe you could add Redknapp and Beckham to that list as well. So that's 6 players in 22 years and England wonder why they struggle.
If England have technical ability in abundance then why have I never seen it on display? Please bear in mind the first tournament I watched was Euro 1996.
That euro 96 team and squad in general was the best i can remember in my time of watching England, even better than Italia 90.
It had a bit of everything.
Great striking options pace and the ability to beat players in Mcmanaman.
Some very good options in midfield and a decent defence and keeper.
They should have won that tournament.
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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