Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:11 pm

In basketball, there is interpretation in giving out assists. It has to be a "major part of the play" unlike in hockey where the last two people who touch the puck before the goalscorer automatically get the credit whether they had anything to do with the creation of the goal or not.

I think footy should combine the two rules and be allowed to give an assist to two players, but also only if their passes were "major parts of the creation of the goal" Such as crediting both Carra and Gerrard with assists in Torres goal against portsmouth example

here clearly Carra plays a nice ball into space knowing that the only way that it can be dangerous is if Gerrard plays it to the center, his pass is attack minded and successful, as well as Stevie Gs pass

by **JoeTerp** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:12 pm

maybe this summer I could rewatch all the LFC goals and make my own assists list

by **Toffeehater** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:14 pm

Sabre wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:just one thing to add , the stats don't lie , a blind man could make 7 lucky passes and they end up as assist , its still considered an assist , he could be the poorest passer of the ball but he has 7 assist to his name

So, for those stats believers , all that mantra about bashing Rafa for using Gerrard as second striker or attacking midfielder is utter aswell no?

I mean, those who said Rafa was wrong in that decission have a "proof" they're wrong looking at Gerrard's goals and 'assists'.

Or maybe the stats are not reliable for that case?

I have no idea what u just said

by **Toffeehater** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:16 pm

Liverpool set for shock Bosman swoop?
21:02 May, 8, 2008
Liverpool Football Club are reportedly set to make a shock move in the transfer market.

t is being suggested that Rafael Benitez will make an end of season move for Birmingham City goalkeeper Maik Taylor, who is out of contract at St Andrews in the summer.

Obviously Jose Reina in the undisputed number one at Anfield, but with Charles Itandje failing to impress and Scott Carson expected to leave, the Blues star could be a shock arrival.

"I don't know anything about it [Liverpool] but obviously I'm out of contract and would like my future sorted," Taylor, 36, told the Birmingham Mail. "But we have a big game on Sunday and that is the only thing on my mind right now."

by **Toffeehater** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm

Liverpool Set Sights On Keita
Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez is reportedly planning a ₤10 million swoop for Sevilla midfielder Seydou Keita…

The Mali international moved to Andalusia last summer, and has impressed during his debut season in Spain.

The 28-year-old has already garnered significant interest from Juventus, who are also chasing his Sevilla team-mate Diego Capel.
, Benitez is prepared to splash out ₤10 million – a third of his projected transfer budget – on the defensive midfielder, thus activating a release clause in his contract.

An inside source said: “Rafa has Keita very high up on his list for this summer and may well make a bid for him.”

Liverpool have already been strongly linked with Aston Villa midfielder Gareth Barry for the same amount, but Villa boss Martin O’Neill has claimed it may take near double that to prise him away from the Birmingham club.

The Reds’ sudden interest in central players has sparked speculation that Xabi Alonso – also linked with Juve – could leave in the summer, but it could also mean that Benitez simply seeks reinforcements for the two holding spots in his 4-2-3-1 formation.

by **Reg** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:23 pm

I think we´ve pi$$ed of Leon again.

by **Sabre** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:26 pm

Joe: Taking in consideration what you mention Joe, it would grasp a bit better the picture, but still it wouldn't be an accurate enough approach to grasp the ability to pass. This is because both games have very little to do with each other.

In basketball, unless you have a quick counterattack transition in which most of the times one player runs and makes a basket, the attacks are static, and in those, the first passes are to find good position of shooting, and the last ones, the assists, tend to be the most important and key ones.

Big guys like O'neall rarely will shoot from range and give last passes, but other than that almost any player can do the last pass.

In football, transitions are slow, and most of the time in the last pass only 4 or 5 players will be in the position of giving the last pass. In football, the previous passes when you recover the ball and when you bring the ball upwards have much more importance than in the basketball game, which are more mecanic and routine passes.

That's why I think assists give a bigger picture to describe a player's game in basketball than in football.

P.S. Toffeehater: Never mind

by **JoeTerp** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:38 pm

passing and assists are different, and I don't think they are intended to be interpreted as the same. Players with more assists are better at creating goals than people with less assists, doesn't necessarily relate to passing ability. I would think the best possible measure for passing ability would be successful passing percentage. Passing the ball well is an important skill but at the end of the day the game is about creating and finishing scoring opportunities which is measured in assists and goals

by **JoeTerp** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:44 pm

and actuall Shaq is known as one of the best big man passers in the game. He is able to use his huge size as a shield and nearly freely distribute the ball to people cutting towards the basket. He also draw a lot of double teams and has a pretty good eye for "kicking it out" to open players on the outside.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:57 pm

JoeTerp wrote:passing and assists are different, and I don't think they are intended to be interpreted as the same. Players with more assists are better at creating goals than people with less assists, doesn't necessarily relate to passing ability. I would think the best possible measure for passing ability would be successful passing percentage. Passing the ball well is an important skill but at the end of the day the game is about creating and finishing scoring opportunities which is measured in assists and goals

Passing

player number of passes % completed

Gerrard 1572 77.4
Mascherano 1280 82.1
Alonso 995 80.7
Lucas 609 80.3

PLAYER TACKLES MADE % SUCCESSFUL interceptions

Gerrard 83 68.7 59
Mascherano 160 75.0 57
Alonso 72 69.4 42
Lucas 75 76.0 35

LEAGUE GAMES ONLY

by **greenbyname_redbynature** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:42 pm

s@int wrote:Red assists
4 Harry Kewell

I can't remember one of them, never mind four. Come to think of it I can't even remember Kewell playing this season. 4 assists. Now I remember why stats are bollox.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:46 pm

I think one was against Reading in the cup - putting torres through.
2 in the CL against Marseille away - Put Torres through and then put Kuyt through.
Can't remember the other one, maybe another against Reading in the cup?

by **greenbyname_redbynature** » Sat May 10, 2008 12:10 am

maybe saint...useless article :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Sat May 10, 2008 12:30 am

The conclusions we can draw from these stats? Steven Gerrard is a good player, Xabi Alonso plays quite deep, Dirk Kuyts mishit shots sometimes bounce of defenders and posts and go to somebody else who actually puts them in the net, and nearly everybodies assists occurred against Reading.

I don't place an awful lot of stock in stats to be honest, other than the important ones. Those are how many points a team gets in the league compared to the other teams, how many goals a striker scores or a team concedes etc etc. Sabre is right that Xabi plays deeper so it's harder for him to provide the final pass, and therefore the stat is meaningless. He is also right that Xabi hasn't had a great season, and you don't need a reem of stats to show you that. Similarly, you could conclude from the stats that Masherano tackles twice as many people as Alonso which would be true, but the two players have a very different way of regaining posession and the stat doesn't necessarily mean on its own that Alonso is an inferior player.

Owzy is very fond of his stats, and I must confess I enjoy reading his posts very much. I don't always come to the same conclusion as him in regards to the bare stats, but they certainly provoke thought. He's fond of course of the ones which show Crouch is useless. The best way to do that is include all appearances, even the thirty second ones and then divide that by the number of goals he has scored. If you ignore the fact he has played sporadically, include penalties, off the knee rebounds and the like it's even possible to show that Kuyt is a much better striker than Crouch. From our eyes though we know this isn't true so it's a bit meaningless really.

As for Gerrard and his stats. Well I kind of already knew he was a good player, and I would hope we wouldn't be selling him for any money. God only knows where we'd finish in the league if he wasn't in the team.

by **Thingy** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:02 am

Hes got 4 years left on his contract not 2.

Liverpool FC Forum

Liverpool reject inter milan bid for gerrard - Start of silly season

Who is online