Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

:eyebrow   

 

[Reg]

:eyebrow   

 

[Octsky]

Andy showed glimspes today of what he can do. Forgiving the dive, he knocked a couple of lovely cross field balls to open up play.

The problem is this - unlike drogba or llorente, he lacks mobility and anticipation.

I have never seen him inside the 6 yard box bar that one shot over the goal today. He is far too stationary when crosses come in and just doesn't seem to move enough to cause problems. Hence, it's very easy to mark him out.

He's got it in him and is young enough - but does he care enough to step up to the next level? I suspect, we will need 1 more season to find out.

ya, agreed. the lack of anticipation is killing him and us. football is a game where 90% of the time you played without the ball.
how many times have we seen in this season that Carroll missing a cross by a whisker?? many many times.

[red till i die!!]

he should have scored that yesterday rather than do all the work superbly by rounding the keeper and throw himself on to the ground.it would have been goal of the month if he had of finished it.
this is the problem with andy and several of the other players when they get into positions to score and constantly make the wrong decisions.
we have been doing this all season and how on earth the coaches havent adressed this is anyones guess.
im beginning to think the coaching is as rubbish as half of the players and might be partly the reason why we are underperforming at an alarming level

[D___C]

I have pinched this from another forum.... 1.its word for word perfect, 2.it has garnered complete agreement, 3.because (not to blow my own trumpet) it echoes every point i have made previously. Enjoy gents (and lasses)...



"You want a sensible discussion about Carroll? I’ll try my best.

When we bought Luis Suarez, we had spent years scouting him. We decided to bid for him and play him with Fernando Torres- a typical number 9, who was fast, played on the shoulder of the last defender and was capable of drifting to the wing to create space for attacking midfielders to run into. And he was a deadly finisher to boot.

That was Plan A. Suarez and Torres.

But then Torres decides to leave. And what do the people in charge decide to do with plan A? They flush it down the toilet. Instead of going and buying a player similar in style if not class to Torres to partner Suarez, as was the plan, the powers that be decided to buy the Torres’ antithesis.

Instead of partnering Suarez with a mobile striker, they decided to partner him with a player with little movement. Instead of having a good finisher, with good football intelligence who thrived on first time balls on the deck, they went and bought a player who preferred a more direct approach.

Plan A well and truly ripped apart.

I never understood the logic in this. Anyone who’s watched Suarez for us or Uruguay can see what it takes to get the best out of him: play him with players with great movement, good footballing brains who are adept at quick one touch pass and move football. But despite our years of scouting we decided to partner him with a player who had none of those attributes.

Carroll was injured for much of last season and Suarez thrived, scoring 4 goals (0% with Carroll on the pitch) and combining magnificently with Maxi, Kuyt and Meireles. All players with good footballing brains and movement, who understood Luis’ game.

The few times Carroll was on the pitch it seemed their partnership was not working. West Brom, Sunderland, Arsenal saw 4 points and very little combination between the 2 players. The City 3-0 game gave us hope, as Carroll bagged 2 and created a chance for Suarez who hit the post. But then he got injured again.
With Carroll out we played Birmingham, Newcastle and Fulham, and won by 13 to 2. The movement and fluidity of the front 4 was a sight to behold at times. All interchanging postions, playing one touch football, combining well. All things that bring the best out of Suarez.

Carroll gets back in the side vs Spurs, and we lose 2-0 with very little combination between the 2 strikers yet again.

It was obvious to me then that we were going to have a serious problem incorporating Carroll. How do you fit such a player, who’s at his best when offered direct football, in a team that plays the sort of football Luis Suarez thrives on? How the hell do you combine the two?

It’s impossible in my opinion and this season proved my fear.
In the Summer, we decided to spend a small fortune on players designed to get the best out of Carroll. In the process, we got rid of one player who combined greatly with Suarez last year, Raul Meireles. This strategy is, in my opinion, is the direct reason why we’re 8th in the league.

We had hit on a winning formula with Carroll out but because of his price tag, the powers that be felt forced to buy players to get the best out of him. Instead of targeting a rich man’s Maxi, they went for a rich man’s Mark Walters . Instead of a better Meireles, they went for a worse Meireles. Instead of a building on the blueprint of success we’d stumbled unto, they ripped it up.

All to justify why they bought Andy Carroll.
And how has Carroll repaid them? By putting in absolute average, lazy performances for 90% of the season. He’s been, generally, absolutely woeful for most of the season. His touch has been awful, his goal threat non existent, his work rate questionable and his compatibility with Suarez invisible.

He’s got 3 goals against premier league sides all season and one assist. I don’t care if he cost 35m or 5m, it’s nowhere near good enough.

More than that, his partnership with Suarez has looked, again, to be restricting the side. I know the arguments and stats out there: the ones that say that the mere sight of the Big Yin’s pony tail makes Suarez’s shots hit the post and go in instead of hit the post and go out. But the real stat that matters is that in all competitions, Raul Meireles has created as many goals for Suarez as Andy Carroll has. And Raul’s played 15mn with Luis all year.

And vice versa too. Suarez has created two goals for Carroll in all competitions. Quite simply: they don’t get. Suarez wants to pass and move, Carroll wants crosses and headers. They couldn’t be more different if they tried. Defoe or Owen would thrive on Carroll’s knockdowns but Suarez is a lot more than that.

I’m sick to death of the excuses people make for his poor form and attitude. I really am. First it was he’s injured. Then it became he’s not fully fit. Then it was we didn’t have the players to get the best out of him. Then it was Kenny not playing him enough. Then it was because Luis was so good it made him look bad.  Then it was because he wasn’t fully fit. Then it was because Gerrard was out. Then it was confidence and he just needs a goal. Then it was moving to another city. Then, it was his age. Then, It was the fans fault. Then it was Kenny’s fault again.

f*ck that. He’s been close to woeful for most of the campaign. Yesterday was the last straw for me. He had 80m to make an impact against Newcastle, tripped over himself when clear on goal, completely messed up a 1-2 with Suarez, moved terribly for Shelvey and was then subbed off.

How did Carroll thank Dalglish for playing him yesterday? By running down the tunnel when subbed and shouting expletives at him. Instead of kissing the feet of the man who’s taken so much stick defending him, he embarrasses him.

And, the killer is, people still find excuses for him. Apparently it was bad managing by Dalglish. Give me a f*cking break. The first person I’ve ever seen run down the tunnel swearing at the Liverpool manager. And people still want to absolve him of any blame.

Not me. I want him gone. First and foremost because I think he’s the complete opposite of the player who can get the best out of our number 7. And secondly because I don’t think he has anywhere near enough respect or affection for this club.

Rip up f*cking Plan B and go back to Plan A. Partner Suarez with a typical number 9, who is fast, plays on the shoulder of the last defender and is capable of drifting to the wing to create space for Lusi to run into. And who’s was a deadly finisher to boot.

And condemn the Carroll fiasco to the annals of history."

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

One of the few players yesterday who looked  capable of delivering even a half arsed display .

[red till i die!!]

meh!!.
just another slag andy carroll post imo and nothing we havent heard before.

were we really looking to sign suarez for years? i doubt it and it wasnt till nando handed in a request and instigated a move that we did sign him and by that time it was too late for torres to reverse the choice we made.
suarez is indeed a good player but he hasnt exactly hit the heights expected of him either and his finishing is rubbish but its not solely his fault and likewise it isnt andys.out of the 2 players suarez has more time played and more shots than any other player in the league with the worst conversion rate and the same cant be said for andy.
fwiw carroll hasnt been a success here,we all know that and we are not blind but we also arent stupid to believe that he is solely the reason why we are failing.
every club has 4 strikers and all ours are equally as bad as each other,kuyt was never good enough and neither is bellamy long term.carroll and luis are young and what we should be building our strikeforce around.

i wasnt aware that he ran down the tunnel yesterday after being subbed and shouted all sorts at the manager while doing so and if thats the case then kenny has indeed lost the dressing room.
either way selling andy carroll is not suddenly going to turn us into title contenders next season but replacing kuyt and bellamy with two better strikers might.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

meh!!.
just another slag andy carroll post imo and nothing we havent heard before.

were we really looking to sign suarez for years? i doubt it and it wasnt till nando handed in a request and instigated a move that we did sign him and by that time it was too late for torres to reverse the choice we made.
suarez is indeed a good player but he hasnt exactly hit the heights expected of him either and his finishing is rubbish but its not solely his fault and likewise it isnt andys.out of the 2 players suarez has more time played and more shots than any other player in the league with the worst conversion rate and the same cant be said for andy.
fwiw carroll hasnt been a success here,we all know that and we are not blind but we also arent stupid to believe that he is solely the reason why we are failing.
every club has 4 strikers and all ours are equally as bad as each other,kuyt was never good enough and neither is bellamy long term.carroll and luis are young and what we should be building our strikeforce around.

i wasnt aware that he ran down the tunnel yesterday after being subbed and shouted all sorts at the manager while doing so and if thats the case then kenny has indeed lost the dressing room.
either way selling andy carroll is not suddenly going to turn us into title contenders next season but replacing kuyt and bellamy with two better strikers might.

plenty of our players down the years have had bust up`s with managers.
roger hunt threw his shirt at shankly and the dug out when he was taken off once and tommy smith when he found out he wasnt in the starting XI at highbury stormed out of the ground and made his own way home, keegan threw his shirt away after being sent off in the charity shield and was banned 11 games, st john and shankly had a huge bust up in the tunnel at newcastle......it happens all the time and at every club.
i was actually glad that at least someone showed that they were pi$$ed off with the situation.

[devaney]

Sh.it now he has to add not making a complete prat of himself when trying to con the ref to his list of things to be worked on !!! Newcastle bought the nucleus of a team with way we paid for Carroll. Ffs I despair with this lad. His behaviour when he was subbed said it all. He really does think he's a lot better than he really is !! To make matters worse Nando looks as if he might just be coming back to life !!!!

To be honest I think D_C's mate actually makes a lot of sense and anybody that thinks that Carroll is worthy of our number 9 shirt is dreaming.

[RedAnt]

I was really, really disappointed in Andy for taking a dive. He had the perfect chance to change the flow of everything but he took the wrong, cowardly, cheating option. I've backed Andy to the hilt and feel let down. I still have faith though. For large parts of the match I thought he was our best and liveliest player.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Sh.it now he has to add not making a complete prat of himself when trying to con the ref to his list of things to be worked on !!! Newcastle bought the nucleus of a team with way we paid for Carroll. Ffs I despair with this lad. His behaviour when he was subbed said it all. He really does think he's a lot better than he really is !! To make matters worse Nando looks as if he might just be coming back to life !!!!

To be honest I think D_C's mate actually makes a lot of sense and anybody that thinks that Carroll is worthy of our number 9 shirt is dreaming.

he`s just become an easy target now mate, he probably caused newcastle more trouble than any other player in our team but he did that by throwing his weight around, chasing lost causes and getting stuck in. we had bellamy, gerrard and suarez in our attack but not one of our forwards had a decent chance created for them by our good play, every one of our opportunities came from scrappy passages of play and us getting the bounce of the ball.
gerrard and bellamy may as well not bothered to turn up but again carroll is the one being lambasted.
at least suarez and carroll looked like they were @rsed if we won or not.

[Thommo's perm]

I was really, really disappointed in Andy for taking a dive. He had the perfect chance to change the flow of everything but he took the wrong, cowardly, cheating option. I've backed Andy to the hilt and feel let down. I still have faith though. For large parts of the match I thought he was our best and liveliest player.

He needs to change his attitude and grow up. His strengths, which were clear when he was at newcastle, seems to have turned into his weaknesses. His inability to shrug off defenders is a worry. We know he is being dragged, pulled, pushed and kicked all the time but he is not getting any sympathy from referees, which is in turn frustrating him and making him repeat the cycle. He needs to start bashing these defenders and using his size to his advantage. I want them to know they have been in a game and come away battered and bruised. At the moment my nana could give them a better physical contest. He needs to shave the pony tail off and man up instead of stomping round like some sulky teenager who cant get his own way

[mart]

he`s just become an easy target now mate, he probably caused newcastle more trouble than any other player in our team but he did that by throwing his weight around, chasing lost causes and getting stuck in.

Like a lot of matches we/he did that for around 20 minutes until the opposition found out how to stop him and us. For the rest of the match we didnt create Sh*t, and he was just as toothless as our other attacking players.

[RedAnt]

I was really, really disappointed in Andy for taking a dive. He had the perfect chance to change the flow of everything but he took the wrong, cowardly, cheating option. I've backed Andy to the hilt and feel let down. I still have faith though. For large parts of the match I thought he was our best and liveliest player.

He needs to change his attitude and grow up. His strengths, which were clear when he was at newcastle, seems to have turned into his weaknesses. His inability to shrug off defenders is a worry. We know he is being dragged, pulled, pushed and kicked all the time but he is not getting any sympathy from referees, which is in turn frustrating him and making him repeat the cycle. He needs to start bashing these defenders and using his size to his advantage. I want them to know they have been in a game and come away battered and bruised. At the moment my nana could give them a better physical contest. He needs to shave the pony tail off and man up instead of stomping round like some sulky teenager who cant get his own way

You're spot on in my opinion. His attitude can be shocking to say the least. His ability is there for most to see, but he seems stuck in the Downward Spiral. He gets nothing from refs which frustrates him to hell. It's like defenders can be as physical as they like, but woe-be-tide Andy if he gives some back. All in all it's been an awful season for him, but I honestly believe with all my heart that should he survive into next season, we'll start to see what we paid all that coin for.

Football is like many other things in life. Take painting a picture for example...if it starts sh*t, it's likely to end sh*t. But with a painting we can toss it in the bin. Alas for footballers, you gotta go the distance. We can point at Andy, but we all know that we as a team and club and entire package have been absolute rot this season.

[D___C]

bash defenders?... so hes a white John Fashanu.




The Sunday Mirror reports the Toon MD’s disparaging verdict on England striker Carroll came when he was giving a group of Newcastle fans an insight into the £35million deal that took the England striker to Liverpool  in January.

Llambias insists that Newcastle got the better of the deal.

The Anfield club’s first bid was £30m and Llambias told the fans: “I have to admit that £30m for Andy Carroll is a lot of money.”

When one supporter asked him “Is he worth £30m?” Llambias responded: “No — he’s worth f*** all.” He then explains that after rejecting the £30m offer, Newcastle refused to sell even for £35m unless Liverpool paid the entire fee up front.

A move that forced Liverpool to ask Chelsea to increase their first instalment of the £50m they had already agreed to pay for Fernando Torres!

Llambias explained: “It is about control.

“We had the control. We knew the Torres deal was there.

“We drew that f****** deal, perhaps the ultimate.

“So £30m? F*** off! Don’t waste my time and I slammed the phone down.

£35m? Everybody including Pardew [manager Alan Pardew] all agreed.

“But the £35m they wanted to pay over four years. It was rubbish. Mike (Ashley) said — and he is a brave boy Mike I promise you — get all the £35m up front.

“We got it all up front and then they never paid us on time and we charged them 12 grand f****** interest.”





12 grand interest just to put the cherry on top of the cake. Newcastle, a basket case of a club, have carried out the biggest p'sstake in transfer history,

I will dance a merry jig when the geordie imposter is out the door.