Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sir Roger** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:46 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:He disappointed me yesterday. I expect more but he is falling short of what he can do. I have to blame Rafa for not giving him as much time and opportunity as he gave Kuyt and Lucas. If Aquilani played as much as these two I believe he would be a better player. As it stands he is out of sync with the others and he looks lost sometimes. Maybe if he has a decent consistent run next season we will see the best of him. Its too late this season

How did he disappoint?

For me he saw lot of the ball, he gave good angles, showed for it, was always available, always involved, used it quickly when he had it. He affected the tempo of our play, spread the ball out wide on several occasions, he got a few shots in, covered a lot of ground. I'm not sure what you were expecting from him yesterday? Especially when you have David Ngog playing ahead of you.

I think hes better than he played yesterday. I wanted a goal from him because he had the chances. I want him to be outstanding because unfortunately its Rafas fault he has more to prove than Kuyt or Lucas. The £20 million price tag has seen many many supporters judge him unfairly in my opinion and I want him to be outstanding so he can shove their words down their throats.Some might say Im asking too much but I dont think I am. I genuinly believe he is a class player and cant wait for him to show it

Dude is that not a bit of a contradiction? You don't want others to judge him unfairly but concede that you're doing it yourself?

I can see why you think that but I am not contradicting myself. I am disappointed because I think he is better than yesterdays performance. He played well in comparison to some but just lacked that extra something for me. A goal would have been great.
As far as others are concerned, Im not really ar'sed if they judge him unfairly. They are disappointed because they think hes a lighweight/talentless/waste of money/just plain sh'it. Whereas I think hes a good player waiting to show what hes capable of. At the moment I dont think hes been given the opportunity to do that. As Ive said, I dont know if its too late this season to see what he can do and therefore I can understand why some think hes not good enough

by **shawnk** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:36 am

bigmick wrote:I don't think Aquilani has got it, and the manager is probably onto something when he says that much of his injury problem is in his head. That said, I cannot think of a more efficient way of fecking a player off than effectively calling him a hypochondriac in the press. Rafa's man management techniques really are staggering at times, and his deperation to deflect blame/criticism onto others when there has been a feck up isn't a pretty sight.

If it isn't "fecking Parry " being to blame for signing Keane once he turned out to be shyte, it's "fecking Aquilani" for always being injured (despite the fact that before we bought him he was always injured). He was a poor buy from someone who is tarnishing his record on a weekly basis into being a poor manager. History will not look back on the Benitez era very kindly, and the final assessment is getting worse by the week.

I thought the main one was Rafa blamed Gareth Barry for not coming over after he bought Keane.

by **Boocity** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:45 am

I want him to stay at Anfield, I think he will be a big asset next season, my only concern is that I do not think he will be a regular starter in a Rafa team as his preference is for Lucas/Masc in defensive midfield.

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 am

Reg wrote:Most clubs would not allow so much money to be carelessly wasted. Zero impact value.

How much did United pay for Hargreaves again (who hasn't played a single game for nearly two years by the way)? I don't hear Ferguson getting slated for paying so much for him, despite the fact that he had a dreadful injury history before joining United like Aquilani did at Roma.

Not to mention Berbatov (£30m), Anderson and Nani (£30m between them) and Carrick (£18m). Carrick isn't even a regular and has had a dreadful season, Nani has 1 good game in 5, Anderson is out on loan I think and Berbatov just isn't a United player.

Everyone wastes money. Unfortunately every mistake we make is magnified due to our perilous financial state. We're not in the position that the likes of United, Chelsea and City are in whereby if they get a major signing wrong (Shevchenko, Veron) they can just move them on and get somebody else in. Even when Rafa gets signings right (I still think Johnson will be worth the transfer fee we paid for him for example) he gets slated by our own fans for paying over the odds. He can't win.

by **Owzat** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:30 pm

stmichael wrote:
Reg wrote:Most clubs would not allow so much money to be carelessly wasted. Zero impact value.

How much did United pay for Hargreaves again (who hasn't played a single game for nearly two years by the way)? I don't hear Ferguson getting slated for paying so much for him, despite the fact that he had a dreadful injury history before joining United like Aquilani did at Roma.

I always thought the Hargreaves transfer was a mistake, fergie being interested but couldn't buy him when he wanted and then pursuing the move when he should have just given it up. If I remember rightly they bought Carrick inbetween and he is for me the better buy

I guess the major advantage fergie has is that the players who you listed are to strengthen an already adequate squad, Rafa is some way off that starting point. So fergie can afford to make gambles on players, I don't think Berbatov is as bad a signing as some make out, I think Nani was supposedly £12m of the £30m deal although quite how the two were linked when they played for two different clubs I don't know.

The key is a solid base, Vidic costing around £7m, Ronaldo had cost only £12.24m, Park costing not a lot and neither did Evra, Neville, Scholes and Giggs coming through the ranks and other players like O'Shea, Fletcher and Brown being useful fill-in players. So yes they do contain some expensive players, some more a hit than others, but most do a better job and their results aren't better than our's merely because they spend more. We have Torres to their Rooney, Vidic has his weaknesses so is he better than Agger or Carragher, same goes for druggie. So who even including Rooney in their side makes their superior spending translate into obvious superiority on the pitch? You've knocked a handful of players so I'm guessing you aren't a big fan of them, so who makes the mancs tick? Probable difference is a seven letter word and hot topic of discussion round here

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:46 pm

Owzat wrote:You've knocked a handful of players so I'm guessing you aren't a big fan of them, so who makes the mancs tick?

mentality. that's the difference, not quality. rooney aside, they're distinctly average this season imo. reina, johnson, mascherano, torres and gerrard would walk into their side. i wouldn't take vidic over agger either.

plus it always helps when half the league rolls over against them without a ball being kicked. half of this league is dross anyway so the mancs will roll them over more often than not without even playing well. even we've done it at home this season with the exception of fulham on sunday. it's our away performances that have been so dire.

i'll will give ferguson credit though in that he's always willing to throw attackers on to go and win games. he's no tactician (see the capitualtion against bayern as a recent example) but he is willing to take risks and more often than not it comes off for him.

by **rocky29** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:51 pm

lets keep aqua for another season and sell insua kuyt lucas riera babbel maxi. Least has an excuse for not playing well. The rest are just not good enough.

by **bigmick** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:05 pm

I made a very early call on Aquilani, and I've seen nothing so far which has made me come close to changing it. He isn't cut out for English football in my opinion, and it would be a smart move to sell him on as quickly as we can.

by **rocky29** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:08 pm

sell gerarrd and get a top striker and winger in exchange more like. Whats the point of keeping the same squad i dont wona sell gerrard but we aint got no money and way to many midfielders carnt no-one see my point

by **Penguins** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:16 pm

Selling Gerrard unless he wants to go is an absolute no go.
Same with Torres. Besides to most likely clubs to afford them are our direct rivals so why shoot ourselves in the foot?

by **The Good Yank** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:23 pm

rocky29 wrote:sell gerarrd and get a top striker and winger in exchange more like. Whats the point of keeping the same squad i dont wona sell gerrard but we aint got no money and way to many midfielders carnt no-one see my point

Is that a double, double negative?

by **stmichael** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:11 am

bigmick wrote:I made a very early call on Aquilani, and I've seen nothing so far which has made me come close to changing it. He isn't cut out for English football in my opinion, and it would be a smart move to sell him on as quickly as we can.

Oh dear.

Let me guess. You think he's too lightweight?

by **bigmick** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:58 pm

stmichael wrote:
bigmick wrote:I made a very early call on Aquilani, and I've seen nothing so far which has made me come close to changing it. He isn't cut out for English football in my opinion, and it would be a smart move to sell him on as quickly as we can.

Oh dear.

Let me guess. You think he's too lightweight?

Yes, but that's not the end of it. I'll have a stab at a football post just for old times sake.

I think Aquilani is a nice footballer, very tidy with two good feet. I'm led to believe by Youtube clips that he has a good shot too, so although we haven't seen much evidence of it we'll take it as a given, and he isn't as bad as some of his ilk in the air either. He has good vision, and a nice range of pass both long and short. He looks at his most comfortable to me when he is playing ahead of a holder, and is able to drift into pockets of space. He also looks most comfortable to me when he picks it up from our left side as opposed to our right, although that may be explained away by Johnsons liking for being ahead of the play when we have it. He is less comfortable picking it up from our centre halves on the half turn, and although his first touch is excellent occasionally his lack of upper body strength means that he can get bundled off it.

Defensively he neither presses nor tackles well, and he is definately not a natural tracker of an off the ball run. Stamina wise like many of his compatriots hefinds the pace of the game in England difficult to deal with, and his influence in matches decreses the longer he stays on, much like Riera.

So what of him? Well he can work on his stamina, equally on his pressing and tackling. How good he'll get at them though largely depends upon his desire to improve, and upon the managements faith in him. Assuming he wants to get better (I'm sure he does) and the manager believes in him (not so sure on that one) he could play every week and gradually get it He'll never be an Alonso who was a natural space filler and protector, but he could improve a lot from where he is. And what of when he has the ball? Is there enough? This is it for me. You have to just about carry him when you haven't got the ball, and when you have got it he doesn't do enough. Nice pretty flicks and dinks and lay offs, but he doesn't strike me as a man whio is going to influence where you finish at the end of the season. ot enough power, pace, goals, assists, game changing interventions for me.

Hope that's enough for you. If you like, next time we can talk about the positions he takes up from set pieces and why I don't think the manager trusts him.

Oh Dear? Do me a favour FFS. Best you post this up and RAWK so when someone answers it you can flip it back over here as your answer.

by **red37** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:07 pm

stmichael wrote:
bigmick wrote:I made a very early call on Aquilani, and I've seen nothing so far which has made me come close to changing it. He isn't cut out for English football in my opinion, and it would be a smart move to sell him on as quickly as we can.

Oh dear.

Let me guess. You think he's too lightweight?

See - this is a fella who, in all fairness has the odds against him when you are talking about the injuries he's had and managing a full and successful recovery - in a respectable timeframe which none of us were prepared to accept as anything less than 2 maybe 3 months in if truth be told. Certainly there would have been incredulity and uproar if the club had known that he wouldnt figure significantly until at least Spring. In that respect both the decision to sign him and the players own state of mind as a result could be described as being, while not entirely a total risk... at the time perhaps one that smacked of a (desperate? - in terms of who was available) judgement based on the void left by Alonso's exit. But thats stating the bleedin' obvious. In spite of that, the welfare of the lads condition could not be placed as anything other than the number one priority once we had infact acquired his services.

Turns out Aquilani may well have recouperated sufficiently to feature 'in certain games' or...against the 'footballing sides' as opposed to say the likes of - well Stoke for example... OK. There's not much we can do about that now really. The real gamble would have been to simply throw him in to the mix from the off, dodgy ankles and all and possibly decimate the career of Aquilani as a result full stop. So there has had to be a bedding in process - probably on Medical advice. Not comprehensively refuted as a 'bad move' - but nevertheless it is a constant that has directly influenced matters and must be factored into any assumption when 'assuaging of the facts'

However, despite the perceived wisdom of his signing (and i do concede there are grounds for some debate...) this lad has developed his foundation in 'serie A'. Now, i dont know about anyone else - but that league (Italian footy in general) albeit staid, functional and more or less played with one eye on containment as opposed to an enthralling spectacle filled with spirit, heart and passion.....traits 'usually' associated with all Latin teams. Of course there have been monumental highs interspersed with the equally quantifyable sense of disillusioned puzzlement on several occasions. Not exactly in the same context as the (previously) underachieving and anti-climactic Spanish sides. More on a par with the mechanically adept and methodically resolute German teams of the preceeding decades. Historically they are after all one of the 'greats' - whatever your predilection, in any case 'serie A' remains one of the top flight leagues in World Football - despite popular consensus to the contrary.

In short Aquilani has had a pretty decent proving ground over his short career there in Italy. Defensively still one of the hardest leagues within which to plunder your art as a player with attacking/forward thinking intent. He must have acclimatised to a fair bit of the old 'rough and ready' treatment from some of those centre halves over the years. OK yes, he eventually got clobbered by a significant injury and has suffered the consequences as a result....that could easily happen to a Gerrard, a Carragher or a Rooney etc but to say he is lightweight or inept too survive in the Premiership must be spoken of with absolute informed authority, not from opinion but borne of fact. Which it cannot be until his ailments are completely resolved (if that is possible) and he has had the ubiquitous 'couple of seasons' grace. That period can then be assessed in its true light once the lad is featuring regularly in the first 11 and is producing the necessary. And only then.

Brief 20 minute cameos are nothing but insufficient evidence from which to make an accurate judgement. Again putting to one side the politics of Aquiliani's employment - there ARE signs of an upturn in fortune, these too in fairness can only be measured in minutes rather than hours so far. But still, there is encouraging progress that has to be allowed time to gestate. In the FULLNESS of time and not incorporated into a review over the bones of a hideous campaign where hardly anybody can claim to have emerged triumphant. He will have a stage - perhaps it will be next season. But really, much of the optimism surrounding that view (my own view) is shrouded in the mists of uncertainty regarding the clubs handling of him, the position he is eventually going to adopt on the park and of course the inevitable twists and turns of fortune that ANY player succumbs to. Lets see if he is involved with the Italian squad in South Africa, gets a decent pre-season under his belt and THEN call it.

Thats my two-pennorth anyway.

by **stmichael** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:12 pm

I've seen enough from Aquilani in cameos to tell me that he's a class act. The problem is, he needs to be in a side with plenty of movement around him to excel. We only do this in fits and starts. Away from home we've been truly awful and he's struggled to have any impact at all. I actually think Lucas would could fit into that approach aswell if he's given the licence to do so.

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