my final remark:
i couldnt give a sh1t about all this awareness boll**ks etc.
he scores goals. always has when given the chance. always against top or ****** opposition. (euro 2004-international level)
always will. lets wait and see.
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by jim_morrison_supported_liverpool » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:23 pm
its not the chilli sauce on kebabs that give you ring-sting, its the actual meat. had one without chilli, and still had ring-sting. the chilli's only there to mask the nonsense they stuff inside that bread.
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by 115-1073096938 » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:38 pm
We can get goals all over the pitch.
We need class.
Bergkamp has never been a great goalscorer, neither has Rooney but they show class. Baros is raw an may get you 15 goals a season but the chances are he won't be involved in other goals.
The think about great players is they are always involved at some point in a team scoring a goal or creating a chance. Weather its keeping the ball simple at the right time, playing a through ball, winning the ball back to start a move or finishing a move off, they usually have some involovement. Baros doesn't have the alround game to do this on a consistent basis. I've no doubt he could score 14-18 goals a season but i honestly believe the rest of the side wouldn't score as many goals with him in there on a regular basis.
We need class.
Bergkamp has never been a great goalscorer, neither has Rooney but they show class. Baros is raw an may get you 15 goals a season but the chances are he won't be involved in other goals.
The think about great players is they are always involved at some point in a team scoring a goal or creating a chance. Weather its keeping the ball simple at the right time, playing a through ball, winning the ball back to start a move or finishing a move off, they usually have some involovement. Baros doesn't have the alround game to do this on a consistent basis. I've no doubt he could score 14-18 goals a season but i honestly believe the rest of the side wouldn't score as many goals with him in there on a regular basis.
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by jim_morrison_supported_liverpool » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:46 pm
stu_the_red wrote:We can get goals all over the pitch.
We need class.
Bergkamp has never been a great goalscorer, neither has Rooney but they show class. Baros is raw an may get you 15 goals a season but the chances are he won't be involved in other goals.
The think about great players is they are always involved at some point in a team scoring a goal or creating a chance. Weather its keeping the ball simple at the right time, playing a through ball, winning the ball back to start a move or finishing a move off, they usually have some involovement. Baros doesn't have the alround game to do this on a consistent basis. I've no doubt he could score 14-18 goals a season but i honestly believe the rest of the side wouldn't score as many goals with him in there on a regular basis.
what you mean the way we hardly score when he's playing this season?
and the way the czechs hardly score and win games when he plays?
sorry which team is baros playing for again?
how much drivelling sh*te can you offer as reasons for your argument? what a coompletely blatant load of nonsense. there's proof for f*** sake!!!!
its not the chilli sauce on kebabs that give you ring-sting, its the actual meat. had one without chilli, and still had ring-sting. the chilli's only there to mask the nonsense they stuff inside that bread.
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by A.B. » Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:57 pm
Personally I'm getting tired of different formations in every game, what other formation haven't we tried yet? Why is that when we are away we use 4-5-1 formation? The very first time we used it was against Bolton and it was uneffective so why in the hell are we still using it?
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by Scottbot » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:03 pm
I haven't made my mind up about Baros for the long term as yet. I'm waiting to see how the lad is playing in 6 months time. Its easy to forget just how few games the lad has played since we bought him. Take out the international appearances and he must have only played a handful of games for the club, his first season was a write-off, so was the last. I'm pretty sure Rafa is working on the weaker areas of his game during training. Right now he is a good player albeit a bit raw, i think he will get better as the season progresses.
Having said that, i agree we need another striker who offers something different to Cisse/Baros. Mista seems to be the most likely (if Valencia will deal with Benitez, i suspect they won't) Has anyone watched this lad play?
Having said that, i agree we need another striker who offers something different to Cisse/Baros. Mista seems to be the most likely (if Valencia will deal with Benitez, i suspect they won't) Has anyone watched this lad play?
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by the great one » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:10 pm
everyone seems to be jumping on the band wagon get mista he's free wat about his wages they must cost a few bob and wat makes u think he will join us i have not bein impressed with mista
''I know Mourinho likes to tell people that he is the European champion manager but he's not now. That belongs to Benitez. '' Jamie Carragher
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by the great one » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:19 pm
he is a midfilder but ive not bein pleased with his contrbution and his attitude
''I know Mourinho likes to tell people that he is the European champion manager but he's not now. That belongs to Benitez. '' Jamie Carragher
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by jim_morrison_supported_liverpool » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:30 pm
Scottbot wrote:I haven't made my mind up about Baros for the long term as yet. I'm waiting to see how the lad is playing in 6 months time. Its easy to forget just how few games the lad has played since we bought him. Take out the international appearances and he must have only played a handful of games for the club, his first season was a write-off, so was the last. I'm pretty sure Rafa is working on the weaker areas of his game during training. Right now he is a good player albeit a bit raw, i think he will get better as the season progresses.
Having said that, i agree we need another striker who offers something different to Cisse/Baros. Mista seems to be the most likely (if Valencia will deal with Benitez, i suspect they won't) Has anyone watched this lad play?
sensible way of lookin at it there scottbott.
as you say, some people dont actually realise how few games he's actually had for us, how young he still is, and how little runs in the first team he has. that is why he still looks raw and a bit naive. not every great young player knows it all straight away. rooney's and owen's are rare.
the main thing is that he obviously has ability, still bangs them in when he's playin, and i myself am waiting to see if he can become more rounded as a player with experience.
for such a young lad to have an international record like that is quite phenomenal.
stu for some reason i always thought you were older for some reason, and i couldnt understand why your points were full of bad logic and reasoning. now i know you're 21 it makes sense.
its not the chilli sauce on kebabs that give you ring-sting, its the actual meat. had one without chilli, and still had ring-sting. the chilli's only there to mask the nonsense they stuff inside that bread.
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by 115-1073096938 » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:25 pm
sensible way of lookin at it there scottbott.
as you say, some people dont actually realise how few games he's actually had for us, how young he still is, and how little runs in the first team he has. that is why he still looks raw and a bit naive. not every great young player knows it all straight away. rooney's and owen's are rare.
the main thing is that he obviously has ability, still bangs them in when he's playin, and i myself am waiting to see if he can become more rounded as a player with experience.
for such a young lad to have an international record like that is quite phenomenal.
stu for some reason i always thought you were older for some reason, and i couldnt understand why your points were full of bad logic and reasoning. now i know you're 21 it makes sense.
So how good do you think Baros will become then lad?
Players like Owen, Fowler, Rooney, Fabregas, Vieira etc are all outstanding when they come through and all improve greatly during their careers. How much do you think Baros is gonna improve?
Look at the difference in class between Alonso and Baros who are of a similar age... Compare Owen and Fowler when they were Baros' age. Infact compare Rooney who's better now than Baros and is 2/3 years younger.
Last edited by 115-1073096938 on Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by woof woof ! » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:37 pm
jim_morrison_supported_liverpool wrote:stu for some reason i always thought you were older for some reason, and i couldnt understand why your points were full of bad logic and reasoning. now i know you're 21 it makes sense.
That reminds me , belated Happy Birthday Stu , hope your 21st was a good one .
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by A.B. » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:54 pm
stu_the_red wrote:sensible way of lookin at it there scottbott.
as you say, some people dont actually realise how few games he's actually had for us, how young he still is, and how little runs in the first team he has. that is why he still looks raw and a bit naive. not every great young player knows it all straight away. rooney's and owen's are rare.
the main thing is that he obviously has ability, still bangs them in when he's playin, and i myself am waiting to see if he can become more rounded as a player with experience.
for such a young lad to have an international record like that is quite phenomenal.
stu for some reason i always thought you were older for some reason, and i couldnt understand why your points were full of bad logic and reasoning. now i know you're 21 it makes sense.
So how good do you think Baros will become then lad?
Players like Owen, Fowler, Rooney, Fabregas, Vieira etc are all outstanding when they come through and all improve greatly during their careers. How much do you think Baros is gonna improve?
Look at the difference in class between Alonso and Baros who are of a similar age... Compare Owen and Fowler when they were Baros' age. Infact compare Rooney who's better now than Baros and is 2/3 years younger.
I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it, if Baros does improve through out his career here at Liverpool will you be the one to say at the end of the season that you always believed Baros would be a class player or will you admit that you were wrong for once ?
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by jim_morrison_supported_liverpool » Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:01 pm
Owen: was brilliant from the start-electric pace, brilliant finisher. note: he was still raw. and other aspects of his game were nowhere near as good as they are now.
Fowler: also brilliant from the start "the best natural goalscorer around". also raw and needed to improve certain aspects. has actually gone backwards since about 1999/2000.
so how can we put him in the equation? was blatantly a child prodigy.
Baros hasnt even had the chance Owen or Fowler had. his first three seasons have been all about getting the odd starting game, in a hugely defensive strategy that didnt favour strikers much, where the manager always preferred another player to start cos he was his most expensive signing and he didnt want to admit he was wrong to sign him for that much. owen or heskey would always replace baros when coming back from injury, even when baros was banging them in, disrupting his flow of games AGAIN. and of course there was the injury.
Rooney: has more talent than fowler or owen, or any 17 year old anyone has ever seen, doesnt even need to improve much. is already built like a man, so wont get physically better either.
vieira was also briliant from the beginning, but his nurturing was miles better than what baros has received. vieira continued to get runs of games and not dropped all the time.
Fabregas has gone right into a fully functioning winning machine. yes he has the talent to hold his own, but we'll have to wait and see if he can do it consistently, and when the going gets tough for arsenal.
all of the above players were better when they started, than what baros is, but the whole point is that we havent really seen that much of baros, as he's been F***** around by Houllier, and he hasnt been nurtured in the slightest, in the time he has been here, that is why he still plays the same and hasnt developed much.
i consider this to be Baros' first season. he will get more games, and benitez will nurture baros more in one season than what houllier has in three.
dont you think its strange that in the team where he has been given the vote of confidence and regular football he has excelled? dont you think its strange that even though he hasnt had regular football EVER for liverpool, he still scores?
this shows he has talent, waiting to be nurtured. he's not the finished article by any means. neither was michael owen or fowler, but they got games and scored goals. no-one was arguing with owens all round ability when he was 17/18 and scoring goals. owen was just a whippet who latched on to through balls and finished most of the time.
all this talk of all round play means nothing if they're scoring, and it was the same for owen. this will never mea that no-one else will score, or we wont score as many (if baros is playing) because you only have to look at the results.
baros is waiting for a good run and all his naivety and raw-ness will be developed. i guarantee baros will score 20 this season if played enough, and not to the detriment of the team. and next season he will be even better.
Fowler: also brilliant from the start "the best natural goalscorer around". also raw and needed to improve certain aspects. has actually gone backwards since about 1999/2000.
so how can we put him in the equation? was blatantly a child prodigy.
Baros hasnt even had the chance Owen or Fowler had. his first three seasons have been all about getting the odd starting game, in a hugely defensive strategy that didnt favour strikers much, where the manager always preferred another player to start cos he was his most expensive signing and he didnt want to admit he was wrong to sign him for that much. owen or heskey would always replace baros when coming back from injury, even when baros was banging them in, disrupting his flow of games AGAIN. and of course there was the injury.
Rooney: has more talent than fowler or owen, or any 17 year old anyone has ever seen, doesnt even need to improve much. is already built like a man, so wont get physically better either.
vieira was also briliant from the beginning, but his nurturing was miles better than what baros has received. vieira continued to get runs of games and not dropped all the time.
Fabregas has gone right into a fully functioning winning machine. yes he has the talent to hold his own, but we'll have to wait and see if he can do it consistently, and when the going gets tough for arsenal.
all of the above players were better when they started, than what baros is, but the whole point is that we havent really seen that much of baros, as he's been F***** around by Houllier, and he hasnt been nurtured in the slightest, in the time he has been here, that is why he still plays the same and hasnt developed much.
i consider this to be Baros' first season. he will get more games, and benitez will nurture baros more in one season than what houllier has in three.
dont you think its strange that in the team where he has been given the vote of confidence and regular football he has excelled? dont you think its strange that even though he hasnt had regular football EVER for liverpool, he still scores?
this shows he has talent, waiting to be nurtured. he's not the finished article by any means. neither was michael owen or fowler, but they got games and scored goals. no-one was arguing with owens all round ability when he was 17/18 and scoring goals. owen was just a whippet who latched on to through balls and finished most of the time.
all this talk of all round play means nothing if they're scoring, and it was the same for owen. this will never mea that no-one else will score, or we wont score as many (if baros is playing) because you only have to look at the results.
baros is waiting for a good run and all his naivety and raw-ness will be developed. i guarantee baros will score 20 this season if played enough, and not to the detriment of the team. and next season he will be even better.
its not the chilli sauce on kebabs that give you ring-sting, its the actual meat. had one without chilli, and still had ring-sting. the chilli's only there to mask the nonsense they stuff inside that bread.
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by A.B. » Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:03 pm
Baros hasn't had a full-season start at Liverpool since he signed. He has been either injured or on the bench as a sub, you can't blame Baros for that. I don't think Houllier believed Baros could be a good player in the future, otherwise he would had put him into the game instead of Heskey and Baros-Owen partnership would had been created.
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