Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:28 pm

Kerry07 wrote:Gerrard is at his best when he is let off the leash in advanced midfield, where he doesnt have to be patient, or a controlled metronomic passer.

Gerrard doesnt have the tools that Alonso had.

The last bit is true, Gerrard is no Alonso but to say he can't and never should play the position is dumb. Gerrard had one of his best seasons playing CM in Houllier's last season, he was incredible that year and dragged us into 4th place all by himself playing as an up and down all action Centre-Mid.

There have been plenty of games where Gerrard has been isolated playing further up the pitch and we've been crying out (with good reason) for Rafa to move the lad back into the middle.

I agree he should play right side more often though. It's a COMPLETE MYSTERY to me that he NEVER plays in that position anymore, not even to change things up when we're struggling. Makes no sense considering the season he had in that position during Rafa's 2nd season at the club.

by **Penguins** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:58 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:Suicide.

Steven George Gerrard will NEVER be a central midfielder. He doesnt have the game to play there.

You being sarky??

Gerrard is not a central mid...not now, not ever. He doesnt have the calm composure to do it. He played there in Istanbul in the 1st half, and only thing i recall from Gerrard in that opening 45 was when he attempted a forward pass, was dispossesed..given to Kaka who then turned Gerrard..and threaded it through for Crespo to dink home the 3rd...we were massacred. On comes Hamann... Gerrard gets back in his natural advanced midfield position and runs riot. In the FA Cup final vs Arsenal 2001... he also played central mid up to the 75th minute and in Gerrards own admission got a real doing from Vieira...we only gained control of midfield when McAllister came on.

Gerrard is at his best when he is let off the leash in advanced midfield, where he doesnt have to be patient, or a controlled metronomic passer.

Gerrard doesnt have the tools that Alonso had.

I tend to agree more than disagree with this post actually.

But at the same time Lucas+Masch in the middle doesn't look good....

But since Kuyt and Lucas must play(says so in their contracts it seems)only 2 of Gerrard, Masch and Aquilani can play....

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:25 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:Gerrard is at his best when he is let off the leash in advanced midfield, where he doesnt have to be patient, or a controlled metronomic passer.

Gerrard doesnt have the tools that Alonso had.

The last bit is true, Gerrard is no Alonso but to say he can't and never should play the position is dumb. Gerrard had one of his best seasons playing CM in Houllier's last season, he was incredible that year and dragged us into 4th place all by himself playing as an up and down all action Centre-Mid.

There have been plenty of games where Gerrard has been isolated playing further up the pitch and we've been crying out (with good reason) for Rafa to move the lad back into the middle.

I agree he should play right side more often though. It's a COMPLETE MYSTERY to me that he NEVER plays in that position anymore, not even to change things up when we're struggling. Makes no sense considering the season he had in that position during Rafa's 2nd season at the club.

Spot on.

by **Penguins** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:02 pm

But right midfield is devoted to our striker Kuyt and Gerrard would probably whine about being played out of position(even if he is the best right midfielder we have by a mile)

by **roberto green** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:07 pm

Kerry07 wrote:Theres a reason Gerrard hasn't been good at international level.. because he cant keep the ball, hes impatient and doesnt have the calm, controlled persona required hence he gives the ball away.... and he isnt given the free reigns hes afforded with us to play advanced midfield and do as he pleases.

With England..hes given a set position, and that means having patience, being calm and economic with his passes, which he cannot do... hence he suffers bigtime.

So...he should never be considered for central mid for us. I'd play him on the right, with Aquilani in the hole.

Kerry is your real name Rafa Benitez?

By the way I somewhat agree with you.

by **Kerry07** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:36 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:Gerrard is at his best when he is let off the leash in advanced midfield, where he doesnt have to be patient, or a controlled metronomic passer.

Gerrard doesnt have the tools that Alonso had.

The last bit is true, Gerrard is no Alonso but to say he can't and never should play the position is dumb. Gerrard had one of his best seasons playing CM in Houllier's last season, he was incredible that year and dragged us into 4th place all by himself playing as an up and down all action Centre-Mid.

There have been plenty of games where Gerrard has been isolated playing further up the pitch and we've been crying out (with good reason) for Rafa to move the lad back into the middle.

I agree he should play right side more often though. It's a COMPLETE MYSTERY to me that he NEVER plays in that position anymore, not even to change things up when we're struggling. Makes no sense considering the season he had in that position during Rafa's 2nd season at the club.

Memory is a tad hazy with 03/04...so looked up results archive on Liverweb to try and recall performances.

We stank that season...won 16 games and finished with 60 points.. that wouldn't get you 6th now. Lost at home to Chelsea/ManU/Arsenal. I vividly recall us winning at Birmingham 3-0 that more or less clinched a CL spot and Gerrard was unplayable in advanced midfield (Hamann/Murphy were in the middle)..and Stevie scored coming in from left wing, and set up the other two goals..Fathead Bruce was raving about him postmatch.

All Gerrards best performances are in his natural advanced role.. where the shackles are off, and patience (which he doesnt have) isn't required. His goal stats rocketed when Alonso signed.. as he was then allowed to play further up the field. The major thing Rafa has got right 100% is what hes done with Gerrard. He knows he aint a central midfielder, who can sit patiently and stroke the ball around in a calm/composed manner ala Alonso....that aint Gerrard, hes too anxious and always wants to produce the killer, hence its the final third where he does the damage. In Rafas 1st season..from his 25 yard screamer vs Olympiakos...to his flick of the ball with the outside of the boot over the Chelsea defence putting Baros clean through (resulting in Luis GOAL which definitely went over the line...lol)..to his performance in Istanbul from minute 46 onward. Gerrard is an advanced attacking midfielder..nothing else. To play him away from the postion where he is world class is suicidal. Last seasons link up between him and Torres was dream team stuff.

As i said...id play Aquilani in the hole, Gerrard on the right (where he played brilliantly in 05/06 with total licence to cut inside). Then in the summer, spend whatever we have in actually buying Alonsos replacement who can control deep midfield.

by **made in UK** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:40 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
TarnRed wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I still think it's too early to judge him given the time he was out for. Id say maybe around March or April time he will be at full fitness not to mention he has to adapt to the physical side of the premiership so probably next season. I just wish he would play more often.

I agree.

I'd personally like to see him given more playing time being able to play in the role he revelled in at AS Roma playing just off the striker, for this to happen Gerrard would have to drop back into a midfield role albeit at either the expense of Lucas or Masch, I also feel this would benfit the team on the whole giving us the link that I feel we have missed between the holding midfielder and the man playing in the hole behind the striker, at the minute it is just too congested in there with 2 holding midfielders, whether this would work who's to know but it can't be any worse than the way the current team is set out.

Suicide.

Steven George Gerrard will NEVER be a central midfielder. He doesnt have the game to play there.

To play central midfield (alongside the destroyer) you need composure in passing... a calm, controlled, relaxed style of play...ie. Alonso, Xavi, Scholes, De La Pena, Iniesta, Fabregas, Vieira...even Fat Fwank... they are all able to recieve the ball, pass it short, move into space, get it back...maintain possession. This appears simple..but it aint. Gerrard is too anxious to play this role...too impatient, always looking for the killer ball which in turn gives away possession.

Gerrard's position will always be as an advanced attacking midfielder, where he does the damage in either screaming them in from 30 yards..or threading a pass for an assist. He has always had controlling midfielders in the team..Redknapp, Hamann, McAllister, Alonso... even Danny Murphy. We dont have any right now which has killed us this season.

Aquilani imo is a real player...ive seen enough. His touch, his inventive/creative style.. i'm in no doubt he is potential world class. Yes hes been wayward with his passing at times (not played in over 8 months, coming into a new team, and one thats disjointed and in poor form)... but you can see the variation in his passes and the penetration he looks for, so there are positives as far as he is concerned. However, it looks as tho Rafa has made a blunder...because Aquilani's position...is not Alonso's position for which he was bought to fill, but instead he plays in Gerrard's position.

Essentially, Rafa has bought a potential world class back-up for Gerrard, instead of a replacement for Alonso, as the center of midfield has been massively weakened.

A replacement for Alonso remains top priority.

Stu-the-red

by **Owzat** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:42 am

I think taking Kuyt out of the side would be a mistake, he may not be everyone's cup of tea but he's got SEVEN Premiership goals playing mostly from the right and to choose not to include one of our top scorers simply because a lot of you have a hate-on for him and repeat the same criticisms which aren't always true as a reason to drop him. Gerrard will attack and it's best to relieve him of having to spend most of his time outside our box, especially as he ain't getting any younger. There's room in the midfield for players like Maxi and Aquilani IF Rafa can see past the end of his nose and ditch the two DMs, even ditching one DM when we don't need one - like today.

It's where a number of supporters of Rafa are a bit too blinkered, adjusting the side to the opposition we're playing. Maybe keep the formation the same, at least to start with, but do we need Mascherano and Lucas against Wolves? (even away) It, and by 'it' you could probably say tactics, is a Rafa blind spot/achilles heel, an inability to assess the oppposition at the start and during the game to be able to change any flaws in tactics, personnel and formation and use SUBSTITUTIONS to change things. His stall is set out to play a team that will attack us, have more possession and therefore set out with defensive cover in front of the back four at the expense of ball-players and attacking options. But how often does he adapt? He's like a load of borg drones that never adapt to the shots being fired at them.

The last three games both Lucas and Mascherano have stayed on the full 90 minutes, we drew against Wolves and Stoke which were games we should be winning. Hopefully if Aquilani and Maxi are fully fit to start (more) games then Rafa will be forced to rethink his tactics (if that is possible) and maybe choose between them

by **Scottbot** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:02 am

made in UK wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
TarnRed wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I still think it's too early to judge him given the time he was out for. Id say maybe around March or April time he will be at full fitness not to mention he has to adapt to the physical side of the premiership so probably next season. I just wish he would play more often.

I agree.

I'd personally like to see him given more playing time being able to play in the role he revelled in at AS Roma playing just off the striker, for this to happen Gerrard would have to drop back into a midfield role albeit at either the expense of Lucas or Masch, I also feel this would benfit the team on the whole giving us the link that I feel we have missed between the holding midfielder and the man playing in the hole behind the striker, at the minute it is just too congested in there with 2 holding midfielders, whether this would work who's to know but it can't be any worse than the way the current team is set out.

Suicide.

Steven George Gerrard will NEVER be a central midfielder. He doesnt have the game to play there.

To play central midfield (alongside the destroyer) you need composure in passing... a calm, controlled, relaxed style of play...ie. Alonso, Xavi, Scholes, De La Pena, Iniesta, Fabregas, Vieira...even Fat Fwank... they are all able to recieve the ball, pass it short, move into space, get it back...maintain possession. This appears simple..but it aint. Gerrard is too anxious to play this role...too impatient, always looking for the killer ball which in turn gives away possession.

Gerrard's position will always be as an advanced attacking midfielder, where he does the damage in either screaming them in from 30 yards..or threading a pass for an assist. He has always had controlling midfielders in the team..Redknapp, Hamann, McAllister, Alonso... even Danny Murphy. We dont have any right now which has killed us this season.

Aquilani imo is a real player...ive seen enough. His touch, his inventive/creative style.. i'm in no doubt he is potential world class. Yes hes been wayward with his passing at times (not played in over 8 months, coming into a new team, and one thats disjointed and in poor form)... but you can see the variation in his passes and the penetration he looks for, so there are positives as far as he is concerned. However, it looks as tho Rafa has made a blunder...because Aquilani's position...is not Alonso's position for which he was bought to fill, but instead he plays in Gerrard's position.

Essentially, Rafa has bought a potential world class back-up for Gerrard, instead of a replacement for Alonso, as the center of midfield has been massively weakened.

A replacement for Alonso remains top priority.

Stu-the-red

Nah, Stu always liked Gerrard in Centre-mid.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:05 am

Owzat wrote:I think taking Kuyt out of the side would be a mistake, he may not be everyone's cup of tea but he's got SEVEN Premiership goals playing mostly from the right and to choose not to include one of our top scorers simply because a lot of you have a hate-on for him and repeat the same criticisms which aren't always true as a reason to drop him. Gerrard will attack and it's best to relieve him of having to spend most of his time outside our box, especially as he ain't getting any younger. There's room in the midfield for players like Maxi and Aquilani IF Rafa can see past the end of his nose and ditch the two DMs, even ditching one DM when we don't need one - like today.

It's where a number of supporters of Rafa are a bit too blinkered, adjusting the side to the opposition we're playing. Maybe keep the formation the same, at least to start with, but do we need Mascherano and Lucas against Wolves? (even away) It, and by 'it' you could probably say tactics, is a Rafa blind spot/achilles heel, an inability to assess the oppposition at the start and during the game to be able to change any flaws in tactics, personnel and formation and use SUBSTITUTIONS to change things. His stall is set out to play a team that will attack us, have more possession and therefore set out with defensive cover in front of the back four at the expense of ball-players and attacking options. But how often does he adapt? He's like a load of borg drones that never adapt to the shots being fired at them.

The last three games both Lucas and Mascherano have stayed on the full 90 minutes, we drew against Wolves and Stoke which were games we should be winning. Hopefully if Aquilani and Maxi are fully fit to start (more) games then Rafa will be forced to rethink his tactics (if that is possible) and maybe choose between them

Mate, your usual objectivity and stats are completely undermined by your affection for Dirky boy! It's always has me scratching my head just how much you end up defending the lad. he's a big boy, he can handle a bit of criticism

by **made in UK** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:20 am

Scottbot wrote:
made in UK wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
TarnRed wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I still think it's too early to judge him given the time he was out for. Id say maybe around March or April time he will be at full fitness not to mention he has to adapt to the physical side of the premiership so probably next season. I just wish he would play more often.

I agree.

I'd personally like to see him given more playing time being able to play in the role he revelled in at AS Roma playing just off the striker, for this to happen Gerrard would have to drop back into a midfield role albeit at either the expense of Lucas or Masch, I also feel this would benfit the team on the whole giving us the link that I feel we have missed between the holding midfielder and the man playing in the hole behind the striker, at the minute it is just too congested in there with 2 holding midfielders, whether this would work who's to know but it can't be any worse than the way the current team is set out.

Suicide.

Steven George Gerrard will NEVER be a central midfielder. He doesnt have the game to play there.

To play central midfield (alongside the destroyer) you need composure in passing... a calm, controlled, relaxed style of play...ie. Alonso, Xavi, Scholes, De La Pena, Iniesta, Fabregas, Vieira...even Fat Fwank... they are all able to recieve the ball, pass it short, move into space, get it back...maintain possession. This appears simple..but it aint. Gerrard is too anxious to play this role...too impatient, always looking for the killer ball which in turn gives away possession.

Gerrard's position will always be as an advanced attacking midfielder, where he does the damage in either screaming them in from 30 yards..or threading a pass for an assist. He has always had controlling midfielders in the team..Redknapp, Hamann, McAllister, Alonso... even Danny Murphy. We dont have any right now which has killed us this season.

Aquilani imo is a real player...ive seen enough. His touch, his inventive/creative style.. i'm in no doubt he is potential world class. Yes hes been wayward with his passing at times (not played in over 8 months, coming into a new team, and one thats disjointed and in poor form)... but you can see the variation in his passes and the penetration he looks for, so there are positives as far as he is concerned. However, it looks as tho Rafa has made a blunder...because Aquilani's position...is not Alonso's position for which he was bought to fill, but instead he plays in Gerrard's position.

Essentially, Rafa has bought a potential world class back-up for Gerrard, instead of a replacement for Alonso, as the center of midfield has been massively weakened.

A replacement for Alonso remains top priority.

Stu-the-red

Nah, Stu always liked Gerrard in Centre-mid.

Yeah but I do remember him changing his opinion every now and again

But your probably right, there isn't enough 'when you've played football at a decent level like I have blah blah, then you'd have a clue, but you don't so get a clue lad'. So I highly doubt its him.

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:01 pm

Ha he is not Stu, Stu would kick off if he seen that statement.
He thinks Gerrard is a classic centre midfielder and is wasted playing further forward.
I sort of agree with both kerry07 is making good points.
Stevie is too impatient at times when asked to play in the middle and seems to get confused as when to sit and when to bomb on.
There are times he has been pushed back into a conventional 2 and he has sat too deep as he appears worried about being caught out if he comes forward.
Having said that without Alonso or a midfielder than can dictate the game and keep us in posession then further forward stevie doesnt even get a kick so its pointless.
At this moment in time in the centre or on the right for me is something that we have to do with him or he is just not involved and that is criminal for our best player to be in a system that doesnt get the best out of him.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:52 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:Having said that without Alonso or a midfielder than can dictate the game and keep us in posession then further forward stevie doesnt even get a kick so its pointless.

Is the key point. You want your best player(s) to have the ball more than all of your other players.

by **Kerry07** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:03 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:Ha he is not Stu, Stu would kick off if he seen that statement.
He thinks Gerrard is a classic centre midfielder and is wasted playing further forward.
I sort of agree with both kerry07 is making good points.
Stevie is too impatient at times when asked to play in the middle and seems to get confused as when to sit and when to bomb on.
There are times he has been pushed back into a conventional 2 and he has sat too deep as he appears worried about being caught out if he comes forward.
Having said that without Alonso or a midfielder than can dictate the game and keep us in posession then further forward stevie doesnt even get a kick so its pointless.
At this moment in time in the centre or on the right for me is something that we have to do with him or he is just not involved and that is criminal for our best player to be in a system that doesnt get the best out of him.

Totally true... with no deep creative central midfielder in the team post Alonso, Stevie in his favoured advanced midfield position is being starved of service this season hence i can understand why some say that he come back into the center (the lesser of two evils) so he is more involved, even though he aint suited there.

This is the problem of not having replaced Alonso...its impeding the performance of others. The 30/40 yard passes Alonso pinged straight to feet...thats gone, and Gerrard and co. are isolated and starved of such quality supply.

Its absoutely huge we buy a deep sitting creative passing midfielder (to play beside Masch)...Aquilani (being of a similar type advanced attacking player to Gerrard) is not it. Spain is churning out these 'keep ball' merchants for fun...endless conveyor belt. Me thinks we ougtta go back to La Liga and find ourselves one.

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:20 pm

kerry07, am liking what i am reading.

Apart from the Rafa needed to cry more as a kid post like

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