Liverpool FC Forum

by **heimdall** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:57 am

bigmick wrote:Well I think whether or not he leaves mark we'll be signing Barry so there will be some cover at least. Aplogies to the Babelians, but Babel must surely be on his way meaning that the only cover we have on the left is the fishmonger, so signing Barry would effectively kill two birds with one stone. It never ceases to amaze me though that some fans (not you mate) will instantly abandon previous positions on players and situations once it becomes a possibility that the manager has decided to do something.

So quickly do people alter their stance, it's hard to keep up with it sometimes.

But just imagine Stevie as AM, Tevez as VAM and Torres as GMSS

AM - Attacking midfielder
VAM Very Attacking midfielder
GMSS - Goal machine Super Star :-)

Play that against teams like Stoke etc and we will batter them. one thing is certain we need to get more attacking options this summer and as good as Alonso is at creating plays he needs to be scoring a hell of a lot more than he does, if we could get Tevez and Barry AND keep Alonso then I'd be very happy indeed. Alonso and Mascha are still my preferred midfield against good opposition but we need to start being far more aggressive towards the park the bus gang of teams.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:04 pm

Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:Barry prolific ??!? in what sense ??

Scoring goals and attacking game.

most of his goals ie 95% come from the penalty spot and his attacking abilities are not great

by **bigmick** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:07 pm

On Alex's point about Silva, I'm not saying he's a woofter but your definition of "hard" and mine mate are different. I don't think he'll get the chance to show his talent over here (Or in England I should say), because people will compress his space, impinge on him physically, push him off the ball legally and he will spend more time sitting on his erse looking at the referee and thinking "feck me, how is that not a foul" than he will doing anything else. Unless you can compete physically in England, you will not prosper unless you are an absolutely wonderful player. He's good from what I've seen, but he's no Zola I don't think. Avoid would be my advice.

As for Heimdalls point, I don't accept that we need huge amounts more attacking input from our central midfielders. In the latter part of the season once we dropped the "two holding midfielders" idea, we scored pretty freely against allcomers.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:09 pm

when did we drop the two holding midfielders ?? both xabi and masher played most of the games if fit ??

and an attacking midfielder we need is one that can float around .

by **mkingdom** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:11 pm

aCe' wrote:ManUtd play 4 forwards when playing the small sides in the league.. thats why they have the record they do against them.... we play Torres with Gerrard behind him....
In the champions league this works... draw a few games here and there and win a few and you could end up being champion.... not in the league though... Ferguson knows that and thats why he often switches to 3 men in the middle in the champs league...

Depends how you look at things, but *we* play a similar way.

Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt, Babel, Benny can and do all play up front, and they are often on the pitch at the same time.

I agree that early in the season we were too careful and that is why we were 2nd, but in the last three months, the players listed above, (possibly plus Riera) have contributed to a fantastic attacking playing style and lots of goals.

If we'd done that all season we'd champions and being hailed as a superb free flowing attacking side.

So I don't think it is because we play with lots of defenders, we just were too careful tactically until recently.

by **bigmick** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:11 pm

GYBS wrote:
Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:Barry prolific ??!? in what sense ??

Scoring goals and attacking game.

most of his goals ie 95% come from the penalty spot and his attacking abilities are not great

GYBS Barry is a good player and regularly gets beyond the play and into the opposition box. He scored with headers from open play which kind of tells its own story.

Now, he may not be as good a footballer as Xabi (infact he isn't IMHO) but he is a good player who will offer more from an attacking viewpoint. To pretend otherwise is to forget all that has gone before in his and Xabi's careers.

I think we should keep Xabi, I think he offers more overall that Barry. Barry though is a good player, if you don't think he offers more from an offensive viewpoint you'll have plenty of chance to actually watch him if we sign him, from there I've no doubt you will change your opinion.

by **bigmick** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:14 pm

GYBS wrote:when did we drop the two holding midfielders ?? both xabi and masher played most of the games if fit ??

and an attacking midfielder we need is one that can float around .

Mate, do you actually watch the games? When it's all going on, do you kind of think about it? Do you compare and contrast which areas players are taking up from previous encounters you have witnessed, do you come to any conclusions about the whole thing or is it just kind of happening in front of you?

Now this is/was a reasonable thread. If you honestly think that we haven't become more attacking from the central midfielders viewpoint over the last few months, then there is little point in discussing the game with you mate, I mean come on . :lookaround

by **Alex G.** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:14 pm

GYBS wrote:
Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:Barry prolific ??!? in what sense ??

Scoring goals and attacking game.

most of his goals ie 95% come from the penalty spot and his attacking abilities are not great

I disagree. His attacking abilities are great, he´s an incisive player in attacking roles especially for a midfielder. Alonso is better defending and with the distribution of the ball.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:26 pm

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:when did we drop the two holding midfielders ?? both xabi and masher played most of the games if fit ??

and an attacking midfielder we need is one that can float around .

Mate, do you actually watch the games? When it's all going on, do you kind of think about it? Do you compare and contrast which areas players are taking up from previous encounters you have witnessed, do you come to any conclusions about the whole thing or is it just kind of happening in front of you?

Now this is/was a reasonable thread. If you honestly think that we haven't become more attacking from the central midfielders viewpoint over the last few months, then there is little point in discussing the game with you mate, I mean come on .

Do we not normally play with both masher and xabi thou mick ? are they not both dms ? The fact they move a little more during the game is all dependant on how the game is going - but they are both still dms .

by **Alex G.** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:26 pm

bigmick wrote:On Alex's point about Silva, I'm not saying he's a woofter but your definition of "hard" and mine mate are different. I don't think he'll get the chance to show his talent over here (Or in England I should say), because people will compress his space, impinge on him physically, push him off the ball legally and he will spend more time sitting on his erse looking at the referee and thinking "feck me, how is that not a foul" than he will doing anything else. Unless you can compete physically in England, you will not prosper unless you are an absolutely wonderful player. He's good from what I've seen, but he's no Zola I don't think. Avoid would be my advice.

As for Heimdalls point, I don't accept that we need huge amounts more attacking input from our central midfielders. In the latter part of the season once we dropped the "two holding midfielders" idea, we scored pretty freely against allcomers.

If benayoun has adapted to the English game, why not Silva who is like him but 100 times better and stronger?
The quality always prevails anywhere.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:27 pm

Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:
Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:Barry prolific ??!? in what sense ??

Scoring goals and attacking game.

most of his goals ie 95% come from the penalty spot and his attacking abilities are not great

I disagree. His attacking abilities are great, he´s an incisive player in attacking roles especially for a midfielder. Alonso is better defending and with the distribution of the ball.

guess we will have to agree to disagree then as barry as never shown any great attacking ability - he shines in a second tier team and that is his level - top 4 teams creative midfielder ?? not for me .

by **Alex G.** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:31 pm

GYBS wrote:
Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:
Alex G. wrote:
GYBS wrote:Barry prolific ??!? in what sense ??

Scoring goals and attacking game.

most of his goals ie 95% come from the penalty spot and his attacking abilities are not great

I disagree. His attacking abilities are great, he´s an incisive player in attacking roles especially for a midfielder. Alonso is better defending and with the distribution of the ball.

guess we will have to agree to disagree then as barry as never shown any great attacking ability - he shines in a second tier team and that is his level - top 4 teams creative midfielder ?? not for me .

You forgot is an essential player for the England´s team.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:35 pm

and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

by **Alex G.** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:43 pm

GYBS wrote:and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

Are you serious? Are you questioning the greatness of the England national team?

Have you seen the kind of players that share dressroom with barry in the national team?

Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Lescott, Walcott...

Do you really think that is not meritorious to be in that squad as essential part of it?

by **Owzat** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:47 pm

bigmick wrote:As for Heimdalls point, I don't accept that we need huge amounts more attacking input from our central midfielders. In the latter part of the season once we dropped the "two holding midfielders" idea, we scored pretty freely against allcomers.

The players themselves can be flexible in their role, there is nothing to stop Xabi getting forward and I think he should more. He has the technique to strike more from the edge of the box, I think he needs to work on it a bit more as he hits the bar too often when a lower shot can get a fat frank style deflection. Mascherano pushes forward too, but I think his more limited abilities make that less useful which is why I don't think we absolutely need him since others can play the holding role and in some games do we need more than Alonso sitting in that position?

I think some, myself to some extent, do consider Alonso a DM, but perhaps more because he doesn't get in the box all that often and you just don't think of him as very attacking. He sits back and controls the game more from the centre with his passing, I guess I'd class him as a CM come DM. As for Gerrard, with Alonso and Mascherano in the side he is freer to get in the box more and scores more.

As for our late form, I think it was helped by playing West Brom, Hull, Newcastle, Blackburn and Sunderland, while we did seem to make the most of our chances in other games too. I think the fact that the title was a long shot at that stage and we needed to attack perhaps relaxed the players a bit as well, while we were in front or still right in there, there was pressure to keep winning. I think the games fell nicely too in terms of home and away, playing the right teams at the right venues at the right time.

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