Liverpool FC Forum

[DrPepe]

and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

Are you serious? Are you questioning the greatness of the England national team?

Have you seen the kind of players that share dressroom with barry in the national team?

Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Lescott, Walcott...

Do you really think that is not meritorious to be in that squad as essential part of it?

Once again i ask how well exactly have england performed over the years ?? nothing of any merit to write home about .

Flawed argument, mate.

Going by that, we've done diddly squat over the last 2 years.
Does that mean that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso and Masch being Liverpool players "doesn't say much these days"?  After all what exactly have we achieved over the last 2-3 seasons?

A good player is a good player..... in whatever team. There is more to how well or badly a team plays than just the quality of the players. Barry  is no Xabi but he is a good player.... that's why he's in the England squad.

Yes, he is a good player, I payed some attention to him this season.

But when I read in a previous page to Ace that he's at the same level, and that he's closer to the men in the wings..., and closer to the strikers... and better for attacking footbal... (with a lot of ...) in every sentence I laugh. Because his passing ability, his vision and his football skill are very far from Xabi's.

Perhaps we could do with Barry and strengthening other positions? Maybe, and Rafa knows about this game. But to compare Barry and Alonso is laughable.

It's a sad  that England hasn't better players than Barry and Carrick these days, because they're not certainly of the same league of Gerrard. England is not triumphing because of this, and because they don't have a Peter Shilton under the sticks. The media might overrate players like Barry as much as they want, you won't see big foreign clubs paying lots of money for the likes of Barry, that's good quality but not top quality.

i agree that technically alonso is far better

however, i thnk one v important area where Barry's "better" than alonso is he has more pace/mobility (i 'm not saying he's super-quick!)

[Sabre]

Yes, he has more pace and ability, but that's not the reason Manchester has 6 points more than us.

The reason that they have 6 points more than us is that they're only good at midfield, but upfront they have no less than 4 players who can provide goals, where as we only had one, with the company of a world class player like Gerrard. When these two were not available, we struggled.

Don't get me wrong, if Barry comes, we'll have an excellent midfield still, and nobody is irreplaceable (even Gerrard will retire one day and Liverpool will have to be Liverpool still) but we need Manchester's quality depth. Especially upfront.

[mistyred]

http://footylounge.com/films/musicvideo.php?vid=c8e5941e0

Great clips st mike, will be a sad day if he goes Barry for me
isn't in Alonso class.

[DrPepe]

Yes, he has more pace and ability, but that's not the reason Manchester has 6 points more than us.

The reason that they have 6 points more than us is that they're only good at midfield, but upfront they have no less than 4 players who can provide goals, where as we only had one, with the company of a world class player like Gerrard. When these two were not available, we struggled.

Don't get me wrong, if Barry comes, we'll have an excellent midfield still, and nobody is irreplaceable (even Gerrard will retire one day and Liverpool will have to be Liverpool still) but we need Manchester's quality depth. Especially upfront.

i don't advocate selling alonso, sabre 

quite the opposite 


But if alonso wants to leave then i think Barry would be a decent replacement - it will also help fund some of those attacking signings to compete with manc united

[mistyred]

Of course if Alonso goes signing Barry wouldn't be to shabi

[lakes10]

and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

Are you serious? Are you questioning the greatness of the England national team?

Have you seen the kind of players that share dressroom with barry in the national team?

Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Lescott, Walcott...

Do you really think that is not meritorious to be in that squad as essential part of it?

Once again i ask how well exactly have england performed over the years ?? nothing of any merit to write home about .

Flawed argument, mate.

Going by that, we've done diddly squat over the last 2 years.
Does that mean that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso and Masch being Liverpool players "doesn't say much these days"?  After all what exactly have we achieved over the last 2-3 seasons?

A good player is a good player..... in whatever team. There is more to how well or badly a team plays than just the quality of the players. Barry  is no Xabi but he is a good player.... that's why he's in the England squad.

Yes, he is a good player, I payed some attention to him this season.

But when I read in a previous page to Ace that he's at the same level, and that he's closer to the men in the wings..., and closer to the strikers... and better for attacking footbal... (with a lot of ...) in every sentence I laugh. Because his passing ability, his vision and his football skill are very far from Xabi's.

Perhaps we could do with Barry and strengthening other positions? Maybe, and Rafa knows about this game. But to compare Barry and Alonso is laughable.

It's a sad  that England hasn't better players than Barry and Carrick these days, because they're not certainly of the same league of Gerrard. England is not triumphing because of this, and because they don't have a Peter Shilton under the sticks. The media might overrate players like Barry as much as they want, you won't see big foreign clubs paying lots of money for the likes of Barry, that's good quality but not top quality.

England dont have better players than Barry due to clubs like ours and thats a fact.
I dont care what anyone says there are better players out there that are being missed by clubs due then them looking overseas all the time.

some good div 1 players if taken at the right age by us big clubs could have been moulded into great English players.

I know of a few Southend and Grays players over the years that have been missed by the big clubs and most of that is due to them being born in the UK, as i said on another post there was a case of a player that could not even get looked at so he moved overseas and then contacted a big club, a and then they come to see him.

as i have also said before great English players have not stopped being born they have just stopped beng picked up and trained by the big clubs.....they look overseas too much.

[GYBS]

not again with the old english over foriegn players .

[ConnO'var]

Yes, he is a good player, I payed some attention to him this season.
Because his passing ability, his vision and his football skill are very far from Xabi's.

Perhaps we could do with Barry and strengthening other positions? Maybe, and Rafa knows about this game. But to compare Barry and Alonso is laughable.

It's a sad  that England hasn't better players than Barry and Carrick these days, because they're not certainly of the same league of Gerrard. England is not triumphing because of this, and because they don't have a Peter Shilton under the sticks. The media might overrate players like Barry as much as they want, you won't see big foreign clubs paying lots of money for the likes of Barry, that's good quality but not top quality.

I agree with a lot of that Sabre. Pound for pound, there is no doubt in my mind that Xabi is a more complete footballer than Barry.

But things don't always work out in favour of quality. Can we say that Andy Johnson or Amir Zaki are better strikers than Morientes was? I don't think that they come even close. Yet they have been more successful in England that Nando M ever was for us. Invariably there are other factors that need to be considered and 1st and foremost, IMO, is the suitability of player in a system, formation utilised and style of play of the football.

That's why the German's and Italians, despite being lesser endowed in terms of player abilities as compared to teams like Brazil and Argentina, have had such success on the world stage.

Unfortunately, quality is not everything. The trick is in finding suitable quality.

And Barry is suitable for us..... he's just not as suitable as Xabi imo..... especially if we stop farting around this summer and get a pair of proper wingers for him to exploit.

To address your point on the number of English exports in the other leagues.... the answer to that is fairly simple.... The number of English managers in foreign lands is fairly small and rightly so.... there's not many of real quality these days. As such, the pull factor due to familiarity is non-existent. Spanish managers will scour for Spanish players. Italians for Italians. French for French. Portuguese for Portuguese and so on..... They are simply more familiar with those hunting grounds. Plus the English league (I think.... could be very wrong here) pay the highest wages on average in Europe..... So why should they leave? Also, English players and most Englishmen, are notoriously poor at learning a foreign language..... it is one of our great failings..... we arrogantly think that the world revolves around the English Language.

I guarantee you though..... should Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Ferdinand, Carra, Carrick, Terry, Ashley Cole be made available or expressed an interest in leaving England for the continent, there would be no shortage of suitors from those who could afford it.

[lakes10]

not again with the old english over foriegn players .

well its got to be that or our Give needs to look into the DNA pool and find out what happend 17 years ago to stop great English players being born.


just look at our youth set up, you need 5 translators to hold a training day.

[Bad Bob]

and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

Are you serious? Are you questioning the greatness of the England national team?

Have you seen the kind of players that share dressroom with barry in the national team?

Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Lescott, Walcott...

Do you really think that is not meritorious to be in that squad as essential part of it?

Once again i ask how well exactly have england performed over the years ?? nothing of any merit to write home about .

Flawed argument, mate.

Going by that, we've done diddly squat over the last 2 years.
Does that mean that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso and Masch being Liverpool players "doesn't say much these days"?  After all what exactly have we achieved over the last 2-3 seasons?

A good player is a good player..... in whatever team. There is more to how well or badly a team plays than just the quality of the players. Barry  is no Xabi but he is a good player.... that's why he's in the England squad.

Yes, he is a good player, I payed some attention to him this season.

But when I read in a previous page to Ace that he's at the same level, and that he's closer to the men in the wings..., and closer to the strikers... and better for attacking footbal... (with a lot of ...) in every sentence I laugh. Because his passing ability, his vision and his football skill are very far from Xabi's.

Perhaps we could do with Barry and strengthening other positions? Maybe, and Rafa knows about this game. But to compare Barry and Alonso is laughable.

It's a sad  that England hasn't better players than Barry and Carrick these days, because they're not certainly of the same league of Gerrard. England is not triumphing because of this, and because they don't have a Peter Shilton under the sticks. The media might overrate players like Barry as much as they want, you won't see big foreign clubs paying lots of money for the likes of Barry, that's good quality but not top quality.

England dont have better players than Barry due to clubs like ours and thats a fact.
I dont care what anyone says there are better players out there that are being missed by clubs due then them looking overseas all the time.

some good div 1 players if taken at the right age by us big clubs could have been moulded into great English players.

I know of a few Southend and Grays players over the years that have been missed by the big clubs and most of that is due to them being born in the UK, as i said on another post there was a case of a player that could not even get looked at so he moved overseas and then contacted a big club, a and then they come to see him.

as i have also said before great English players have not stopped being born they have just stopped beng picked up and trained by the big clubs.....they look overseas too much.

Okay, but what's stopping them being picked and trained by Villa, Everton, Bolton, Blackburn etc.?  Nothing surely?  If they've got the talent surely a mid-table or bottom table or top Championship club will take a punt and they'll prove their ability in the Prem before too long.  Hell, they might even get snaffled up by a big club and make their way into the England set-up (ie. they'll "do a Walcott").  That seems to be the way of things and surely it can't be that poor a policy.  I just don't believe there are Steven Gerrard Mark IIs out there somewhere who can't get a game because the top clubs often look overseas.

[GYBS]

not again with the old english over foriegn players .

well its got to be that or our Give needs to look into the DNA pool and find out what happend 17 years ago to stop great English players being born.


just look at our youth set up, you need 5 translators to hold a training day.

watch the under 21 champs this year lakes and see which teams are the better teams techincally and skillfully - same with the under 20 world cup or the under 17 euros champs - the brazillians,italians,spanish,french are all better than the english counterparts - even some of the african nations are better .

do you know what happened all those years ago - english kids started playing more bloody computers and sport in schools suffered . english kids at any sport are not as good as countries around the world - as a sporting nation we are behind many nations. That could be down to schooling etc or the kids themselves just not being good enough .

[Sabre]

If you want to know why England hasn't better players don't look at the premiership nor the championship, look at the work that is being done when the lads have less than 18 years.

If below 18 years the bigger lads are used in the teams because they bully the quality players, and that gives results at that ages, then that's the problem you should address.

Sub 18 teams should look to educate players, not to win games. England is a huge footballing nation, and the day they start doing the proper work in sub18 ages, the day they'll be top of the top again.

[aCe']

and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

Are you serious? Are you questioning the greatness of the England national team?

Have you seen the kind of players that share dressroom with barry in the national team?

Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Lescott, Walcott...

Do you really think that is not meritorious to be in that squad as essential part of it?

Once again i ask how well exactly have england performed over the years ?? nothing of any merit to write home about .

Flawed argument, mate.

Going by that, we've done diddly squat over the last 2 years.
Does that mean that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso and Masch being Liverpool players "doesn't say much these days"?  After all what exactly have we achieved over the last 2-3 seasons?

A good player is a good player..... in whatever team. There is more to how well or badly a team plays than just the quality of the players. Barry  is no Xabi but he is a good player.... that's why he's in the England squad.

Yes, he is a good player, I payed some attention to him this season.

But when I read in a previous page to Ace that he's at the same level, and that he's closer to the men in the wings..., and closer to the strikers... and better for attacking footbal... (with a lot of ...) in every sentence I laugh. Because his passing ability, his vision and his football skill are very far from Xabi's.

Perhaps we could do with Barry and strengthening other positions? Maybe, and Rafa knows about this game. But to compare Barry and Alonso is laughable.

It's a sad  that England hasn't better players than Barry and Carrick these days, because they're not certainly of the same league of Gerrard. England is not triumphing because of this, and because they don't have a Peter Shilton under the sticks. The media might overrate players like Barry as much as they want, you won't see big foreign clubs paying lots of money for the likes of Barry, that's good quality but not top quality.

Get your facts straight Sabre... I never said that theyr at the same level... Alonso to me personally is better than the likes of Carrick and Barry... He's my favorite Liverpool player and i'd be gutted if he ends up leaving for any price...

However that said, i would understand if we end up selling him for big money, and i do think that having a Barry or Carrick in the side instead of Alonso would add a fair bit to the attacking edge of the side... As you said (sarcastically or whatever it was), Barry is better than Alonso when it comes to getting himself in good attacking positions in the final third... providing a killer ball or putting in a dangerous cross...

Again, around better quality i think Alonso would do even better than what hes been doing so far...but the question is.. do we have enough money to spend to bring in top quality players without having to sell one of our big players ? Personally, id much rather let Mascherano go if we absolutely have to sell.. But im afraid Rafa sees it differently or so it seems...

There is no gulf in quality between Alonso, Barry, Carrick and the likes despite what others would have you thinking... surely most would pick Alonso out of the bunch but to say they'r not even in the same league is just daft and clueless , all imo of course.

[Sabre]

Fair enough... we agree to disagree... on your bike lad...

[lakes10]

and you forget an essential player for team that has achieved didly squat for how long and couldnt even qualify out right last time and has done nothing in major tournaments - being an england player doesnt say much these days

Are you serious? Are you questioning the greatness of the England national team?

Have you seen the kind of players that share dressroom with barry in the national team?

Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Lescott, Walcott...

Do you really think that is not meritorious to be in that squad as essential part of it?

Once again i ask how well exactly have england performed over the years ?? nothing of any merit to write home about .

Flawed argument, mate.

Going by that, we've done diddly squat over the last 2 years.
Does that mean that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso and Masch being Liverpool players "doesn't say much these days"?  After all what exactly have we achieved over the last 2-3 seasons?

A good player is a good player..... in whatever team. There is more to how well or badly a team plays than just the quality of the players. Barry  is no Xabi but he is a good player.... that's why he's in the England squad.

Yes, he is a good player, I payed some attention to him this season.

But when I read in a previous page to Ace that he's at the same level, and that he's closer to the men in the wings..., and closer to the strikers... and better for attacking footbal... (with a lot of ...) in every sentence I laugh. Because his passing ability, his vision and his football skill are very far from Xabi's.

Perhaps we could do with Barry and strengthening other positions? Maybe, and Rafa knows about this game. But to compare Barry and Alonso is laughable.

It's a sad  that England hasn't better players than Barry and Carrick these days, because they're not certainly of the same league of Gerrard. England is not triumphing because of this, and because they don't have a Peter Shilton under the sticks. The media might overrate players like Barry as much as they want, you won't see big foreign clubs paying lots of money for the likes of Barry, that's good quality but not top quality.

England dont have better players than Barry due to clubs like ours and thats a fact.
I dont care what anyone says there are better players out there that are being missed by clubs due then them looking overseas all the time.

some good div 1 players if taken at the right age by us big clubs could have been moulded into great English players.

I know of a few Southend and Grays players over the years that have been missed by the big clubs and most of that is due to them being born in the UK, as i said on another post there was a case of a player that could not even get looked at so he moved overseas and then contacted a big club, a and then they come to see him.

as i have also said before great English players have not stopped being born they have just stopped beng picked up and trained by the big clubs.....they look overseas too much.

Okay, but what's stopping them being picked and trained by Villa, Everton, Bolton, Blackburn etc.?  Nothing surely?  If they've got the talent surely a mid-table or bottom table or top Championship club will take a punt and they'll prove their ability in the Prem before too long.  Hell, they might even get snaffled up by a big club and make their way into the England set-up (ie. they'll "do a Walcott").  That seems to be the way of things and surely it can't be that poor a policy.  I just don't believe there are Steven Gerrard Mark IIs out there somewhere who can't get a game because the top clubs often look overseas.

yes they do but as they are not the best clubs and the best set up they never move on, they stay good players but never get the extra help to turn them into great players.

Look at Owen, he was a great player, he was spotted as a kid during a time that our club looked very hard at young English kids, if he was in the same place today there is a very good chance that he would be sent out on loan and not given the extra help needed and they would have looked overseas for a better players that they dont the extra help.