Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:54 pm

Sabre wrote:St Michael's suggestion is good.

But I like Ben Patrick's idea more.

Mascherano should be limited to defensive duties only, behind any other midfielder. Gerrard should have a bit more defensive duties than as a second striker, but keeping some freedom to enter the box, which he enjoys. And Aquilani to make quick combinations with him and Torres, not many defensive duties.

With a solid defence (I know I'm asking much now), that would be a team that would make me feel a bit more comfortable.

Maxi Rodriguez will lose less balls than Kuyt anyway, so I think he'll help not only in the attacking front, but also our solidness.

Mascherano and Gerrard as a central 2 in a 4-4-2 doesn't work. It's been proven so in the past. Neither has any positional discipline whatsoever.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:29 pm

I think there's every chance we'll be talking b0llocks for months without reaching an obvious solution.

by **Sabre** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:42 pm

Mascherano and Gerrard as a central 2 in a 4-4-2 doesn't work. It's been proven so in the past. Neither has any positional discipline whatsoever.

Mascherano and Gerrard may have not worked in the past, but in the past they didn't play with quality in the wings, and a quality man to link with Torres.

I honestly think that with quality wings that assure posession, Mascherano is more than able to be a lone holding midfielder, letting Gerrard move everywhere in the pitch.

We'll see.

I think there's every chance we'll be talking b0llocks for months without reaching an obvious solution.

Correct.

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:09 pm

bigmick wrote:"Little faith and much misery"

Faith in what exactly? I'm giving my opinion of a footballer, if you're asking me to have "faith" that infact I'm totally wrong and he's about to become a Worldbeater, I'm going to have to let you down I'm afraid. I know having "faith" and insisting that you "believe believe believe" is all the go around these parts, but as it's a football forum and all that, I prefer to pass an oppinion based on how good a player he does or doesn't look. I know I could take the view that as he wears a red shirt with our badge on it it therefore follows that he's a wonderful player and about to become a roaring success, but there are plenty enough of people on here already who take such stances without me adding to their number.

As for misery, I'm just about the least miserable I've been in many a year right now. Whether or not Aquilani makes it will not influence that one way or another. As for your question about what a 20 million poind player looks like, given our last two have looked like Robbie Keane and Alberto Aquilani I'm in the same boat as yourself on that one. I can barely remember. I do know though that a 25 million pound player looks like Carlos Tevez, a 12 million poind player looks like Gareth Barry, and a 10 million pound one looks like Darren Bent.

Aquilani at this moment in time looks like a 5 million pound one to me, but we'll see. I'll try and drum up some "faith", and sit on the floor cross legged chanting "believe believe believe" if you think it'll help.

Sarcasm duly noted.
Just to clarify: I'm not asking you for blind faith. Far from it. I am not the type of person who will 'sit on the floor cross legged chanting "believe believe believe"' nor am I asking you to be. I am certainly not saying you should accept that 'as he wears a red shirt with our badge on it it therefore follows that he's a wonderful player and about to become a roaring success' That would be silly.
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. But I am not suggesting you are "totally wrong" or that "he's about to become a Worldbeater" They are extreme views and not what I was advocating. I was asking for patience and support for someone who may well be a good and effective player who influences where we finish this season.
Whether or not he is a 20 million pound player means absolutely fu'ck all to me to be honest. I have seen 5 to 10 million pound players who were excellent and 30 to 40 million pound players who were absolutely sh'it. I have long since lost interest in the "price" of footballers. I am more interested in what they do for our club and couldnt care what they cost as long as they play well for the team.
I was calling you names tongue in cheek and didnt mean to offend. It makes no difference to me that you have no faith as Im sure it makes no difference to you that I have

by **Number 9** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:20 pm

I find it hard to believe that even a few have more or less made their mind up on the player already.

Was listening to Gary Mac last night,he said Aqualani needs a run of games before anyone can judge him because he is coming back from a long time out of football.....Who would disagree with a legend who has played the game and knows a hell of a lot more about football and playing at the highest level than any of us ever will??I agree with Gary Mac.But not just is he coming back from injury he is adapting to a new style of football where he will get less time on the ball,the game is played at a far faster pace and he'll get kicked a lot more than in Italy.

From what I have seen he is a very clever player and looks to have great vision.He likes to play a lot of through balls and clever little passes,it can be a bit frustrating that only a few come off but if he gets a run of games the players around him will learn his game and Im sure a hell of a lot more will come off .I think its gonna take some time for our players to get to know his style and ways as well for him to gel with them.As for where to play him?Well as far as I am concerned there is a vacancy in CM because Lucas and Masch should just not play together end of story.He may fit in there or he may fit better in Gerrards current position with the captain playing CM or going back on the right(as some have mentioned)??Who knows.

Anyway its too early to judge the lad and no one can say either way if he will be a success or a failure,whether he was worth £5m or what we paid.FFS the lad has just put his foot in the door,anyone that makes their mind up already are talking sh,ite and basically taking shots in the dark!

by **kazza** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:26 pm

bigmick wrote:Aquilani at this moment in time looks like a 5 million pound one to me, but we'll see. I'll try and drum up some "faith", and sit on the floor cross legged chanting "believe believe believe" if you think it'll help.

Proof positive that you do not know as much as you think you do about football. I suppose when he proves his worth you can always use the old faithfull standby and say you were being sarcastic.

by **Fowler_E7** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:42 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:He hasnt done enough so far to suggest that he warrants a place but this team looks good to me.

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurellio

Maxi Masher Gerrard Riera

Aquilani

Torres

i would say that is our best lineup by a mile at the moment, that team actually has talent and creativity, id be suprised if Rafa uses it though, Kuyt will NEVER be dropped from the first team.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:41 pm

Number 9 wrote:I find it hard to believe that even a few have more or less made their mind up on the player already.

Was listening to Gary Mac last night,he said Aqualani needs a run of games before anyone can judge him because he is coming back from a long time out of football.....Who would disagree with a legend who has played the game and knows a hell of a lot more about football and playing at the highest level than any of us ever will??I agree with Gary Mac.But not just is he coming back from injury he is adapting to a new style of football where he will get less time on the ball,the game is played at a far faster pace and he'll get kicked a lot more than in Italy.

From what I have seen he is a very clever player and looks to have great vision.He likes to play a lot of through balls and clever little passes,it can be a bit frustrating that only a few come off but if he gets a run of games the players around him will learn his game and Im sure a hell of a lot more will come off .I think its gonna take some time for our players to get to know his style and ways as well for him to gel with them.As for where to play him?Well as far as I am concerned there is a vacancy in CM because Lucas and Masch should just not play together end of story.He may fit in there or he may fit better in Gerrards current position with the captain playing CM or going back on the right(as some have mentioned)??Who knows.

Anyway its too early to judge the lad and no one can say either way if he will be a success or a failure,whether he was worth £5m or what we paid.FFS the lad has just put his foot in the door,anyone that makes their mind up already are talking sh,ite and basically taking shots in the dark!

I'm not usually one to make an early mate but I've got genuine concerns about the player. Not with the ball at his feet, he looks good, sees the game, excellent vision, a bit of creativity and I can see why Gerrard made the comparisons to Alonso. But after watching 120 minutes of football against Reading the other night and failing to see our new midfielder make one tackle, we ll it set off some big alarm bells. The McAnuff run in particular, Aquilani was tracking back, he was in position to make the tackle (or at least to foul the player) and he simply pulled out and it should have cost us a goal really. Now that's got nothing to do with fitness, with waiting to see how he goes after 10, 20, 30 games, it's a major worry. And now we're all talking about the lad playing in the hole after a couple of nice touches in a game where (if were truthful) he was fairly anonymous for the most part. It's as if everyone's making the concession that the lad doesn't like a tackle (he's a midfielder remember) and therefore it's probably best to play him in the hole (not what he was bought for) and drop Stevie back into midfield. It's a big ask replacing Alonso, not just because Xabi was such a great passer but because he was a tough player, who liked the English up and at em style, and he led the team in tackles every season. i think Rafa has realised quite quickly that this lad isn't up for (or up to) the rough stuff hence sitting him on the bench for some of our more physical fixtures. I hope i'm wrong but I don't see how time (or bedding in) should have much impact on whether he wants to get stuck in or not. Either he does or he doesn't.

On the plus side, he looked a lot fitter yesterday and played with more energy.

by **red till i die!!** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:49 am

i think he's improved every time i see him.
he looks like he can pass,dribble or shoot and seems eager to impress.
granted he seems a little shy to throw the leg in at 50/50 challenges. but considering his recent return from injury i couldnt fault the lad for being cautious.as his fitness improves im sure so will his tackling.
imo.his task would be easier if he wasnt under pressure to fill xabi's boots. also would be easier for him to integrate himself into the team if we were playing well and hadnt had so many injuries!!!
he could be a good player for us but doubt we'll see the real aqualani till next season.

by **kazza** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:40 am

I remember Platini said of Glen Hoddle that if he was French then France would have won the WC but in England he was called "Glenda", because he did not tackle. Hoddle was an amazingly gifted footballer (technically speaking) yet never seemed to capture the British public imagination and was under rated (once again because "he did not tackle").

You need tacklers in every team but you also need creative players that can do something special, unfortunately it is rare to find a player that is creative and tough as nails and when you do, they will cost you much more 20 million. I like him and see he is improving so will give him the benefit of doubt (ie he will make the necessary adjustments to succeed in the EPL). The "does not tackle" lable is a bit simplistic because he does but having said that I will readily admit that is not his game and I want him creating and not destroying (we have Mascha for that).

by **made in UK** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:58 am

kazza wrote:I remember Platini said of Glen Hoddle that if he was French then France would have won the WC but in England he was called "Glenda", because he did not tackle. Hoddle was an amazingly gifted footballer (technically speaking) yet never seemed to capture the British public imagination and was under rated (once again because "he did not tackle").

You need tacklers in every team but you also need creative players that can do something special, unfortunately it is rare to find a player that is creative and tough as nails and when you do, they will cost you much more 20 million. I like him and see he is improving so will give him the benefit of doubt (ie he will make the necessary adjustments to succeed in the EPL). The "does not tackle" lable is a bit simplistic because he does but having said that I will readily admit that is not his game and I want him creating and not destroying (we have Mascha for that).

Good post, agree with the sentiments.

by **Sir Roger** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:01 am

kazza wrote:I remember Platini said of Glen Hoddle that if he was French then France would have won the WC but in England he was called "Glenda", because he did not tackle. Hoddle was an amazingly gifted footballer (technically speaking) yet never seemed to capture the British public imagination and was under rated (once again because "he did not tackle").

You need tacklers in every team but you also need creative players that can do something special, unfortunately it is rare to find a player that is creative and tough as nails and when you do, they will cost you much more 20 million. I like him and see he is improving so will give him the benefit of doubt (ie he will make the necessary adjustments to succeed in the EPL). The "does not tackle" lable is a bit simplistic because he does but having said that I will readily admit that is not his game and I want him creating and not destroying (we have Mascha for that).

Unfortunately some people cant or wont get over the loss of Alonso. Aquilani then has the unenviable task of taking his place.
But some need to realise he is not "like for like". He is a different player with different qualities. Constantly people are saying "Xabi did this" or "Xabi did that" and then pointing out Quila's deficiencies in comparison.
Guys- let it go! He is not and never will be another Xabi Alonso. End of story. And all the frustrations, disappointment and moaning wont bring him back. Give the lad a chance to get used to the culture, the game, the team, the club for fu'cks sake and support him. Stop expecting miracles from a rookie who is trying his best to be a good player for LFC.
And stop comparing. It will make you feel better...
:;):

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:44 am

At long last I'm ready to prove myself, says Aquilani

• "It would have been easier starting my career in a winning team"
• "It will take me a while to get to a level I am happy with"

The mention of senior players and responsibility remains a sensitive issue around Anfield but the response of every Liverpool player to his clarion call surely enriched the precious victory over Tottenham Hotspur for Rafael Benítez.

It was a night when the maligned received rapturous ovations from the Liverpool faithful, Philipp Degen, Sotirios Kyrgiakos and, on recent evidence, Dirk Kuyt chief among them, while others strengthened the manager's conviction that his team must and can improve. Into that category falls Alberto Aquilani.

Liverpool's £20m summer signing from Roma made only his third Premier League start on Wednesday and was indicative of the transformation between the FA Cup exit to Reading and the spirited shift that defeated Harry Redknapp's brittle side on the same ground one week later.

Injury and Benítez's subsequent protection policy have taken a toll on the initial enthusiasm that follows any big-money capture, and Aquilani accepts he is a long way from meeting the standard required. Tottenham, however, may well have represented a breakthrough.

The Italy international admitted: "I knew that I wouldn't be able to play straight away because of the ankle injury I had when I signed. Ideally, I would have been able to start playing in a team that was winning matches. Instead, by the time I was fit to play, the team was going through a difficult period, so the transition has been a lot harder.

"That's football and the risks are the same with any move. But as a foreign player, moving to a new country in a new league with different team-mates, it would have been easier for me if I was starting my Liverpool career in a winning team. It hasn't been that way, so the pressure has been on me to produce performances straight away. When I have played, though, I know I can do a lot, lot better."

With Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard and Yossi Benayoun sidelined, and in the wake of the Reading defeat, there were fewer allowances for Aquilani in what Benítez had declared was a "make or break" game against Tottenham. And, despite doubts over his physical condition prompting a return to the substitutes bench at Stoke City last Saturday, the midfielder is adamant he can have a major role in Liverpool's pursuit of fourth place this season.

Aquilani added: "Some people may think that I will find the pace of the game in the Premier League very quick. I understand that some great players who have done well in Serie A have come here in the past and struggled. At the moment, I am regaining my fitness after a long time away from football.

"It will take me a while to get to a level I am happy with and I don't think I'm that far away. The manager has explained to me in detail what he wants me to do for the team. When every player is fit, including me, I think it will bring the best from me and the best from the 11 players we have out on the pitch."

The importance of the occasion was lost on no one inside Anfield, with Redknapp conceding his team had missed "a great opportunity" in the race for a Champions League place irrespective of complaints over Jermain Defoe's disallowed goal early in the second half. Benítez's post-match message that Tottenham, Manchester City and Aston Villa must accept they have Liverpool for company in their private competition for fourth was, as with his pre-match warning, seized upon by his players.

As Degen noted: "It was an important victory for everyone at the club; the players, the staff, the manager and the fans. Everyone knows that we can close down fourth place. We all did well, worked hard and that was the least we could do.

"Everyone knows that we haven't played well this season but the team is closer now, we are working hard and we want to make sure we give the fans some success. Every player knows what we are fighting for and we aren't going to give fourth place away."

Wednesday marked the highlight of a disappointing Liverpool career so far for the Swiss full-back, who was among those up for sale this month until injuries offered opportunity as an unorthodox midfielder.

"I am a footballer with heart and I live to play football," said Degen. "All the time I was out I kept believing that I could come back. I wanted to fight to show that I could play here and I think everyone knows that I don't give up. It doesn't matter what has happened in the past. I just had to wait for my chance to give my best. I hope I have done that now."

by **bigmick** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:19 am

kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:Aquilani at this moment in time looks like a 5 million pound one to me, but we'll see. I'll try and drum up some "faith", and sit on the floor cross legged chanting "believe believe believe" if you think it'll help.

Proof positive that you do not know as much as you think you do about football. I suppose when he proves his worth you can always use the old faithfull standby and say you were being sarcastic.

by **kazza** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:41 am

bigmick wrote:
kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:Aquilani at this moment in time looks like a 5 million pound one to me, but we'll see. I'll try and drum up some "faith", and sit on the floor cross legged chanting "believe believe believe" if you think it'll help.

Proof positive that you do not know as much as you think you do about football. I suppose when he proves his worth you can always use the old faithfull standby and say you were being sarcastic.

You're getting wittier everyday :laugh:

If you are saying that Aquilani is only worth 5 million pounds then you have now entered Idiotville, whether feeling sleepy or not.

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