Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:19 am

bigmick wrote:It's obviously unreasonable to expect a Torres like success everytime you plunge in, but it is/was legitimate to expect a better replacement for Alonso than the one we got, for the money we spent.

Fu*king hell mate talk about instant judgement!
How long do you usually wait before you make an assessment of whether a player justifies their fee?
Two games? Three? Ten? Half a season?
How will we know what hes worth until weve had a chance to see what he can do?
:upside:

by **sully0182** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:45 pm

I thought he was off the pitch when maxi came on?

that post was about the stoke game

by **stmichael** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:12 pm

The main question for me is where we play him long term.

To me he seems completely unsuited to playing in central midfield or as a defensive midfielder. He's not going to track back so he'd ideally be playing in a more advanced midfield role.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:17 pm

stmichael wrote:The main question for me is where we play him long term.

To me he seems completely unsuited to playing in central midfield or as a defensive midfielder. He's not going to track back so he'd ideally be playing in a more advanced midfield role.

That is the rub. He seemed more in his element last night playing closer to the box when we had the ball (which, at times, was all too rare). From that advanced role he could hussle and harry and track back into midfield without having the burden of actually needing to break up play, put his body on the line etc. He'll have enjoyed that more than the conventional CM role, I think. The problem is to figure out what to do when Gerrard's fit. I don't think we can afford to just stick him back on the bench and use him only when Stevie's not playing so it's a question of how to get the best out of both on the same pitch. Some question Gerrard's ability to go back to the deeper role. I'm not sure I agree but I also know that Gerrard has shown just how much a threat he can be playing the AM role. Aquilani will have to show a bit more than the few excellent cameo moments he pulled out in that position last night in order to convince me it's wise to have him swap roles with Stevie.

by **stmichael** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
stmichael wrote:The main question for me is where we play him long term.

To me he seems completely unsuited to playing in central midfield or as a defensive midfielder. He's not going to track back so he'd ideally be playing in a more advanced midfield role.

That is the rub. He seemed more in his element last night playing closer to the box when we had the ball (which, at times, was all too rare). From that advanced role he could hussle and harry and track back into midfield without having the burden of actually needing to break up play, put his body on the line etc. He'll have enjoyed that more than the conventional CM role, I think. The problem is to figure out what to do when Gerrard's fit. I don't think we can afford to just stick him back on the bench and use him only when Stevie's not playing so it's a question of how to get the best out of both on the same pitch. Some question Gerrard's ability to go back to the deeper role. I'm not sure I agree but I also know that Gerrard has shown just how much a threat he can be playing the AM role. Aquilani will have to show a bit more than the few excellent cameo moments he pulled out in that position last night in order to convince me it's wise to have him swap roles with Stevie.

i'd play gerrard on the right hand side of the three and keep kuyt upfront until torres gets back.

by **JamCar05** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:49 pm

bigmick wrote:As for your question about what a 20 million poind player looks like, given our last two have looked like Robbie Keane and Alberto Aquilani I'm in the same boat as yourself on that one. I can barely remember. I do know though that a 25 million pound player looks like Carlos Tevez, a 12 million poind player looks like Gareth Barry, and a 10 million pound one looks like Darren Bent.

Aquilani at this moment in time looks like a 5 million pound one to me, but we'll see.

You seem to keep mentioning these players (well, Bent at least

) as players we've missed out on given their prices compared to the ones of Keane and Aquilani, which in truth you might turn out to be somewhat right about, though I am by no means ready to disregard Aquilani just yet (Keane just wasn't good enough for LFC imo).

But my main gripe is that it happens with quite a lot of transfers that (relatively) cheap ones turn out to be succesful and the expensive ones flop (or at least don't live up to their hefty price tag). Just look at the likes of Kranjcar (and for your pleasure Bent

) at the one end, and Nani/Anderson/Berbatov at the other. It's not just Benitez making faults like that you know mate (for the record I know you aren't directly saying this). Fergie has definitely been there, and even mr. Mourinho has bought a fair few less than impressive players for high prices at Chelsea aswell as Inter.

So who is to say what a 10, 12, 20 or 25 million player looks like? No one really (don't get me wrong though, I do catch your drift that you expect something a bit "special" from a 20 million pound player), and the examples you come up with can easily be countered by the above manc players and the likes of Robinho (you can't seriously tell me he looks like a 32 million pound player in the PL - he might though in another league, which is of course another discussion though

).

On Aquilani specifically: I see improvements in his game, and am still hopeful he turns out to play an important part in getting the rest of our season back on track. Whether that makes him worth exactly 20 million or closer to your current 5 million valuation I don't know.

by **made in UK** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:58 pm

red_guy wrote:He played well against spurs which he played in his natural position ..in the hole.

Thats my natural position according to the Mrs.

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:00 pm

made in UK wrote:
red_guy wrote:He played well against spurs which he played in his natural position ..in the hole.

Thats my natural position according to the Mrs.

Which one though ?

by **made in UK** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:08 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
made in UK wrote:
red_guy wrote:He played well against spurs which he played in his natural position ..in the hole.

Thats my natural position according to the Mrs.

Which one though ?

Both

by **Waldo** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:07 pm

stmichael wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
stmichael wrote:The main question for me is where we play him long term.

To me he seems completely unsuited to playing in central midfield or as a defensive midfielder. He's not going to track back so he'd ideally be playing in a more advanced midfield role.

That is the rub. He seemed more in his element last night playing closer to the box when we had the ball (which, at times, was all too rare). From that advanced role he could hussle and harry and track back into midfield without having the burden of actually needing to break up play, put his body on the line etc. He'll have enjoyed that more than the conventional CM role, I think. The problem is to figure out what to do when Gerrard's fit. I don't think we can afford to just stick him back on the bench and use him only when Stevie's not playing so it's a question of how to get the best out of both on the same pitch. Some question Gerrard's ability to go back to the deeper role. I'm not sure I agree but I also know that Gerrard has shown just how much a threat he can be playing the AM role. Aquilani will have to show a bit more than the few excellent cameo moments he pulled out in that position last night in order to convince me it's wise to have him swap roles with Stevie.

i'd play gerrard on the right hand side of the three and keep kuyt upfront until torres gets back.

Agree. Aquaman is never going to be a holding midfielder.

I would keep the 4-2-3-1 formation, play Riera and Maxi wide and have Aquaman playing 'in the hole' behind Kuyt.

If we were to out and get someone like Parker to come into MF alongside Mascha then we are a strong looking unit. And one that will only get stronger when you think we'll have Gerrard and Yossi back over the coming weeks...

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:16 pm

He hasnt done enough so far to suggest that he warrants a place but this team looks good to me.

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurellio

Maxi Masher Gerrard Riera

Aquilani

Torres

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:21 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's obviously unreasonable to expect a Torres like success everytime you plunge in, but it is/was legitimate to expect a better replacement for Alonso than the one we got, for the money we spent.

Fu*king hell mate talk about instant judgement!
How long do you usually wait before you make an assessment of whether a player justifies their fee?
Two games? Three? Ten? Half a season?
How will we know what hes worth until weve had a chance to see what he can do?

The jury is still out on Aqualani....he has a lot of doubters to prove wrong (I am sceptical?) It's another big gamble that Rafa has made?......one that will either make or break Rafa's reign, as he has made a lot of bad buys over the last couple of seasons.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:28 pm

stmichael wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
stmichael wrote:The main question for me is where we play him long term.

To me he seems completely unsuited to playing in central midfield or as a defensive midfielder. He's not going to track back so he'd ideally be playing in a more advanced midfield role.

That is the rub. He seemed more in his element last night playing closer to the box when we had the ball (which, at times, was all too rare). From that advanced role he could hussle and harry and track back into midfield without having the burden of actually needing to break up play, put his body on the line etc. He'll have enjoyed that more than the conventional CM role, I think. The problem is to figure out what to do when Gerrard's fit. I don't think we can afford to just stick him back on the bench and use him only when Stevie's not playing so it's a question of how to get the best out of both on the same pitch. Some question Gerrard's ability to go back to the deeper role. I'm not sure I agree but I also know that Gerrard has shown just how much a threat he can be playing the AM role. Aquilani will have to show a bit more than the few excellent cameo moments he pulled out in that position last night in order to convince me it's wise to have him swap roles with Stevie.

i'd play gerrard on the right hand side of the three and keep kuyt upfront until torres gets back.

It's a great shout mate. I find it bizarre that Gerrard could have such a successful season on the right in 06-07 and then Bang! He never plays there again, no matter the fixture or scoreline during a game. It baffles me. It's deffo worth a try and i'd like to see the switch in games where Stevie (and Torres) sometimes gets isolated.

by **Sabre** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:51 pm

St Michael's suggestion is good.

But I like Ben Patrick's idea more.

Mascherano should be limited to defensive duties only, behind any other midfielder. Gerrard should have a bit more defensive duties than as a second striker, but keeping some freedom to enter the box, which he enjoys. And Aquilani to make quick combinations with him and Torres, not many defensive duties.

With a solid defence (I know I'm asking much now), that would be a team that would make me feel a bit more comfortable.

Maxi Rodriguez will lose less balls than Kuyt anyway, so I think he'll help not only in the attacking front, but also our solidness.

by **SupitsJonF** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:55 pm

made in UK wrote:
red_guy wrote:He played well against spurs which he played in his natural position ..in the hole.

Thats my natural position according to the Mrs.

But when you tire before it's over, is it because of lack of match fitness?

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