Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:05 pm

Big Niall wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Religion is not the insult, it's the people that err.
Religion is faith, and there ain't nothing wrong with that mate.

If you read the actual "holy books" they all claim that their followers are superior or loved more by god than others. Versus in the bible will tell you that Ghandi isn't in heaven as he didn't believe in Jesus.

Catholics are supposed to believe that if a baby dies before it is baptised then it won't go to heaven.

I realise many followers of religion don't really have the same bigotry that their holy books do, but the holy books do create hate of people that aren't from that tribe.

No people create hatred towards each other not religion, its the way you interpret the holy book.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:19 pm

Humans are evolved and we can create some pretty complex things.

by **andy_g** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:35 pm

kalos wrote:Answer the questions or bring some intelligent reasoning to the table - answers like the above make me thing that there's still some primordial soup floating around - in some guys brains ..

Andy_g - ALL scientists and every person thats done basic science knows that one of the fundamental laws is:

energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed.

All matter is related to energy (E=mc2)

Poeple will accpet that energy has ALWAYS been there - cannot be created or destroyed- so surely the Creator/Designer/God MUST always have been there.

Its as simple as that. Just becasue our tiny minds can't comprehend that about a person/designer/God but will accept it about "energy" doesnt mean it's not possible or indeed not true.

The only problem is that scientists (especillay evolutionary scientists) have to make it sound complicated and keep hold of their jobs at YOUR expense.

Anyway I'm still waiting for the answers to the above from the "we 're here by chance " camp.

In 20 years of discussions I've yet to come across a sensible discussion based on logic/reason/fact and not speculation.

[B]

you f*cking creationists are all the same with the same ridiculous argument. you state that the enormous amounts of evidence which point to the truth (or at least as much as that small part which we currently understand) about the origins of the universe is 'speculation' and then state that the only sensible explanation is that it was all designed and built by some intelligent omnipotent being which 'has always been there'. the scientific facts which support this theory are still awaiting discovery.

your quotation of the laws of energy conservation is exactly the point i was making. surely this god thing, and the energy it contains, had to have come from somewhere - it can't just come into existence by itself. or maybe you'd like to explain a little better how 'its always been there' actually works.

and these creationists say the rest of us have tiny minds...

by **Number 9** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:58 pm

andy_g wrote:
kalos wrote:Answer the questions or bring some intelligent reasoning to the table - answers like the above make me thing that there's still some primordial soup floating around - in some guys brains ..

Andy_g - ALL scientists and every person thats done basic science knows that one of the fundamental laws is:

energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed.

All matter is related to energy (E=mc2)

Poeple will accpet that energy has ALWAYS been there - cannot be created or destroyed- so surely the Creator/Designer/God MUST always have been there.

Its as simple as that. Just becasue our tiny minds can't comprehend that about a person/designer/God but will accept it about "energy" doesnt mean it's not possible or indeed not true.

The only problem is that scientists (especillay evolutionary scientists) have to make it sound complicated and keep hold of their jobs at YOUR expense.

Anyway I'm still waiting for the answers to the above from the "we 're here by chance " camp.

In 20 years of discussions I've yet to come across a sensible discussion based on logic/reason/fact and not speculation.

[B]

you f*cking creationists are all the same with the same ridiculous argument. you state that the enormous amounts of evidence which point to the truth (or at least as much as that small part which we currently understand) about the origins of the universe is 'speculation' and then state that the only sensible explanation is that it was all designed and built by some intelligent omnipotent being which 'has always been there'. the scientific facts which support this theory are still awaiting discovery.

your quotation of the laws of energy conservation is exactly the point i was making. surely this god thing, and the energy it contains, had to have come from somewhere - it can't just come into existence by itself. or maybe you'd like to explain a little better how 'its always been there' actually works.

and these creationists say the rest of us have tiny minds...

rather curious

by **dawson99** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:33 am

I'm not a creationist, I just believe there's more to it than we have found...

anyway, for you evolutionists... what about the baby seal? Heads still soft as f*ck. Explain that one Einstein

by **made in UK** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:57 am

I was talking to a christian the other day while out on the boat fishing. We had a discussion about religion, I am not religous and I asked him a simple question. 'If God is real why does he allow children to be born with brain damage, terminal illness', physically deformed and so on'.

He replied about Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge etc. We're all now sinners because Eve ate the apple, (why God wanted us to be without knowledge was another question I asked) anyway. He, christians believe the garden of Eden was paradise, Lions and rabbits co-exsisted without the latter being mauled by the former. The christian said to me that God said 'everytime you see an animal die, it is because of your sins'.

Basically God made everything perfect, there was no violence, death and what have you, humans walked the earth with dinosaurs etc.

The christian said God had seven angels working with him (I think it was seven). One named Lucifer I believe turned on God and thought I am going to be the creator, I am not going to abide by his rules. Lucifer rebelled against God.

I said 'if God made everything so perfect why did he create a an angel that turned out to what we know today as the devil'?

'I don't know' said the christian.

by **dawson99** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:05 pm

God gave us the planet, and left us alone. He/she/It is not in control, we have freedom of everything. We are in control of our own lives. Bad thngs happen because we are human.

If there was a God and he was in charge of evrything and made it all perfect how boring would it be?

That's how I see it anyways. We do our thing, then something happens... maybe it's re-incarnation, maybe we live the same life again and again til we do it right, maybe we move on to 'smoething else'. But I do believe there is something after this.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:22 pm

The only "something after this" are the genes we pass on to our children mate. We would all be better off believing in the tooth fairy and Father Christmas, at least people don't fight wars and commit all types of crimes against humanity in the name of the tooth fairy.

What is the point of believing in a god that does nothing? I could see the point in believing in a god that protects you in time of trouble, but a god that does nothing ?

by **dawson99** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:29 pm

s@int wrote:The only "something after this" are the genes we pass on to our children mate. We would all be better off believing in the tooth fairy and Father Christmas, at least people don't fight wars and commit all types of crimes against humanity in the name of the tooth fairy.

What is the point of believing in a god that does nothing? I could see the point in believing in a god that protects you in time of trouble, but a god that does nothing ?

God does nothing? He created everything mate, but lets us get on with it. We are the ones to blame when bad stuff happens, not God.

Each to his own I guess, as long as we're happy and good people we can get along

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:34 pm

Fairy nuff

by **Big Niall** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:22 pm

It is impossible to prove God exists - unless he pops down to say hello.

Likewise it is impossible to prove God does not exist.

I just think, than in any argument about anything, the burden of proof is the one that claims something does exist.

by **dawson99** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:28 pm

Big Niall wrote:It is impossible to prove God exists - unless he pops down to say hello.

Likewise it is impossible to prove God does not exist.

I just think, than in any argument about anything, the burden of proof is the one that claims something does exist.

but faith beats lack of proof, or it even beats proof. Wed just say that God made the proof to get rid of the non believers.

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe."

by **kalos** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:56 pm

andyg said

""the scientific facts which support this theory are still awaiting discovery""
and
"" these creationists say the rest of us have tiny minds... ""

Mate - I'm asking you to use your mind - I never said you had a tiny one (mind that is

)

logic /reason are what I'm after and you still haven't given me any - you just resorted to invective.

The point is this - the first law of Thermodynamics I quoted is accepted without question. However when it comes to a person/intelligence /whatever you want to call it people juts close their mind and stop using logic and reason -

Tyring to complicate a very simple thing called EXPERIENCE IN LIFE should not be negated by some boffin in a white coat saying blah blah chance /primordial soup/ big bang

MY EYES and ears and brain tell me that when I see a painting or hear an orchestra some bloke had to be there and use his abilities/intelligence to MAKE It.

Now apply what your eyes and ears tell you about the Universe , the infinitely high degree of order thew fine tuning of the physical forces that make life possible and ask yourself how this could possibly be an accident of chance - what does reason /logic tell you ??

Like I said I'm asking you to use your mind - boffins who spout out a load of hypotheticals with no proof or experiments to prove it are the ones who presume you have a tiny mind so you'll swallow thier cr-p hook line and sinker.

regarding madeinuk conversation:

""I said 'if God made everything so perfect why did he create a an angel that turned out to what we know today as the devil'?

'I don't know' said the christian. ""

Well that Christian should be ashamed of himself .Read John 8:44 and you'll see that the angel who chose to become Satan (misue fo free will) was at one time "in the truth" as the verse puts it and so was at one time a good angel. Also, Ezekiel 28: 13-17 evidently describes the process that led to his downfall.

Conclusion : God did not create anyone evil - the angel we know as Satan /Devil chose to become such by misuse of free will.

by **Big Niall** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:32 pm

Barely over a century ago, people believed the world was a few thousand years old, now we know life has been here for millions of years via fossils.

We are slowly putting together the history of the planet and the universe. Just like science proved the earth rotates around the sun, it will correct other false beliefs and fill in missing wholes.

I'll be dead by the time much of this evidence is found.

People used to think epileptic fits were the work of the devil as they had no explanation, why else would a person act "nuts" what posessed their body to move in such a bizzare unnatural way? now we know.

by **Big Niall** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:36 pm

dawson99 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:It is impossible to prove God exists - unless he pops down to say hello.

Likewise it is impossible to prove God does not exist.

I just think, than in any argument about anything, the burden of proof is the one that claims something does exist.

but faith beats lack of proof, or it even beats proof. Wed just say that God made the proof to get rid of the non believers.

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe."

Ignoring the technology we have today, lets say I believed in the Loch Ness monster and you didn't . I'd have no evidence of its existence, you'd claim that it is just a story and there is nothing to suggest it exists.

I would then claim than my faith that something exists despite there being no evidence of it outweighs any requirement to prove it i.e. proof is inferior to belief without proof (A.K.A.faith)

Liverpool FC Forum

Religion

Who is online