Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:06 am

NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Can someone answer me this im sure ive read it somewhere ,but havnt we got up until a certain time to prove to Eufa that we are finacialy ok. or we could lose our Euro licence or something, Makes me think a few sales could be forced here on Rafa , Maybe ive misunderstood the ins an outs an could be totaly wrong about the time linit thing , But if it is correct ill guarentee you therll be more than Javier going

I think that was last season Nanny, but I suppose they may ask us again now for next season?

Your most prob right saint , So whens are next installment to the bank due then , Because this is gonna carry on happening imo, Players who are worth millions out the door an players bought on a provi cheque brought in , I honestly think Rafas hand is being forced here ,

I don't get the "provi cheque" line Nan. We sold Alonso and Arbeloa for mid 30 million, and bought Aquilani and Johnson for the same amount plus a couple of million more. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been nice to have spent more money, but neither Aquilani nor Johnson were exactly bargain basement buys. Even Hyppia who we let go on a free (another high profile member of the squad wanting away) we replaced with a player who while admittedly not being in the same league did cost a couple of mill'.

The "provi cheque" line applies to the Mancs and Arsenal this Summer. The Mancs got rid of Ronaldo and Tevez and replaced them with Valencia and Owen. Arsenal sold their best striker for 25 million quid and their best defender for 12 million quid, replacing them with a bloke off of Ajax for 10 million quid.

Now that's what I call provi cheque.

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:13 am

Mick a provi cheque is what you get when you but something and pay weekly :laugh:

An Sammi got offered a one year contract Mick but he wanted to play first team football on a regular basis , hense why is is a regular in the Leverkusan team,

by **maguskwt** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:56 am

s@int wrote:What worries me most is what Alonso said. He is not the type of player who slags off a team for no reason, so when he says something I think it carries a bit of weight. He said something along the lines of....... "the team has changed too much since 2006, and things are'nt the same".

I think one of the hardest things in football is getting a good team spirit among the players. With all the changes both of staff and players, and the problems with the owners I wonder whether the moral and spirit of the club is not what it should be. We have seen heads dropping or being shaken when players have come off, rumours of blazing rows between key players in the dressing room, and even on the pitch things have been tense at times.

Obviously our troubled start to the season hasn't helped , but maybe its just a sign of problems within the club rather than just loss of form.

the team has changed much since 2006 though, that we were in a real title fight in 2008-9 since I don't know when...

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:04 am

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:What worries me most is what Alonso said. He is not the type of player who slags off a team for no reason, so when he says something I think it carries a bit of weight. He said something along the lines of....... "the team has changed too much since 2006, and things are'nt the same".

I think one of the hardest things in football is getting a good team spirit among the players. With all the changes both of staff and players, and the problems with the owners I wonder whether the moral and spirit of the club is not what it should be. We have seen heads dropping or being shaken when players have come off, rumours of blazing rows between key players in the dressing room, and even on the pitch things have been tense at times.

Obviously our troubled start to the season hasn't helped , but maybe its just a sign of problems within the club rather than just loss of form.

the team has changed much since 2006 though, that we were in a real title fight in 2008-9 since I don't know when...

A light burns brightest just before it goes out

I think he was talking about the spirit within the club more than anything. Don't forget they did actually WIN SOMETHING which always makes players happier.

by **made in UK** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:30 am

NANNY RED wrote:
made in UK wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Can someone answer me this im sure ive read it somewhere ,but havnt we got up until a certain time to prove to Eufa that we are finacialy ok. or we could lose our Euro licence or something, Makes me think a few sales could be forced here on Rafa , Maybe ive misunderstood the ins an outs an could be totaly wrong about the time linit thing , But if it is correct ill guarentee you therll be more than Javier going

I think that was last season Nanny, but I suppose they may ask us again now for next season?

Your most prob right saint , So whens are next installment to the bank due then , Because this is gonna carry on happening imo, Players who are worth millions out the door an players bought on a provi cheque brought in , I honestly think Rafas hand is being forced here ,

Yeah by Mascherano

Show me one quote from the Express article that says Javier wants a tranfer,from him personaly , his agent yes , But not him , So i will refrain from calling him names until he fecks us over ,tbh

Show me one quote where Rafa's "hand is being forced here" to sell Mascherano. Until then I'd be inclined to believe that the player wants away rather than being forced to sell by our owners TBFH.

by **Dazzer** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:32 am

NANNY RED wrote:
made in UK wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Can someone answer me this im sure ive read it somewhere ,but havnt we got up until a certain time to prove to Eufa that we are finacialy ok. or we could lose our Euro licence or something, Makes me think a few sales could be forced here on Rafa , Maybe ive misunderstood the ins an outs an could be totaly wrong about the time linit thing , But if it is correct ill guarentee you therll be more than Javier going

I think that was last season Nanny, but I suppose they may ask us again now for next season?

Your most prob right saint , So whens are next installment to the bank due then , Because this is gonna carry on happening imo, Players who are worth millions out the door an players bought on a provi cheque brought in , I honestly think Rafas hand is being forced here ,

Yeah by Mascherano

Show me one quote from the Express article that says Javier wants a tranfer,from him personaly , his agent yes , But not him , So i will refrain from calling him names until he fecks us over ,tbh

Well if his agent is comming out and saying he wants to move to barca or who ever and masch isn't comming out and saying its not true imo thats fecking us over.

by **made in UK** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:44 am

I personally don't believe he is fecking us over. I think he just wants to leave for his own reasons. I don't belive that Rafa's hand is being forced to sell. However I don't think the funds from his sale will be re-invested back into the team. I think (like most) the owners will take a cut out of the sale to payoff our debt.

Unlike Alonso I don't think Mascherano wants to leave because of Rafa; and I don't believe Rafa is being MADE to sell Mascherano.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:56 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Rafa didn't spend the money from the Alonso deal on Johnson. He spent just over half of it on Aquilani.

by **Zidane** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:36 am

Emerald Red wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Rafa didn't spend the money from the Alonso deal on Johnson. He spent just over half of it on Aquilani.

Yeah and the owners kept the other 33%, Rafa only spent 1/3 of the money from selling Alonso.. not sure what your point was though.

Edit: err, 2/3*.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:51 am

Emerald Red wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Rafa didn't spend the money from the Alonso deal on Johnson. He spent just over half of it on Aquilani.

I think Johnson was 17 million quid so yes some of that came from the Alonso sale I should think. Given that by all accounts Portsmouth already owed us some money we won't have had to deposit the full 17 mill into their Russian bank account, but us writing off the money that was coming our way is only the same as spending it so there's no difference as far as I can see.

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:40 am

bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Rafa didn't spend the money from the Alonso deal on Johnson. He spent just over half of it on Aquilani.

I think Johnson was 17 million quid so yes some of that came from the Alonso sale I should think. Given that by all accounts Portsmouth already owed us some money we won't have had to deposit the full 17 mill into their Russian bank account, but us writing off the money that was coming our way is only the same as spending it so there's no difference as far as I can see.

The keane money michael ? The arbeloa , palleta an whomever else we sold money michael ? The crouch money , the alonso money ,all went on aquilani and johnson . Really . first i've heard about it . Talk about creative accounting .

Yer see it's people and the media who don't like using the facts that tend to produce this myth of rafa the man who spends the dosh on sh!te but gets no return .

by **made in UK** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:11 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Rafa didn't spend the money from the Alonso deal on Johnson. He spent just over half of it on Aquilani.

I think Johnson was 17 million quid so yes some of that came from the Alonso sale I should think. Given that by all accounts Portsmouth already owed us some money we won't have had to deposit the full 17 mill into their Russian bank account, but us writing off the money that was coming our way is only the same as spending it so there's no difference as far as I can see.

The keane money michael ? The arbeloa , palleta an whomever else we sold money michael ? The crouch money , the alonso money ,all went on aquilani and johnson . Really . first i've heard about it . Talk about creative accounting .

Yer see it's people and the media who don't like using the facts that tend to produce this myth of rafa the man who spends the dosh on sh!te but gets no return .

He shouldn't of sold them then :wwww

Jokes aside its pretty obvious that Rafa has not had the money from his sales to re-invest back into the team.

The signing of the Greek Grock pre-season exhibits this.

I think John Craig's post on page one probably best answers the thread starters question.

by **kazza** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:30 am

Rafa wanted to buy Turner, he asked the owners to give him more money (this was in the papers at the time) and they did not, we then bought the greek. Turner would have helped us (speculative I know) not lose at least two of our losses, in which case we would be in much better shape. At the end of the day IT IS ABOUT MONEY. Had we had huge money to offer players, none would have left, including Alonso. If Aquilani is as good as he has looked so far, we'll be saying "Alonso who" because frankly he seems a better player.

I heard that they are going to raise the tax rate for Spain based players (maybe Sabre can confirm) and if it happens these want aways will not want away (well not to Spain anyway).

by **Sabre** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:40 am

Answering to the topic question, I'd say it's not coincidence.

Some cases like the Alonso one seem to be the responsability of the manager. Just like Rafa was able to keep Torres happy and bring a football level he never gave in Spain, he didn't know to be in the same wave lenght of Alonso.

So part of the players leaving seems a case of Rafa's methods and/or personality.

The other important factor is money. IMHO the manager had not the required support to compete with the likes of United and Chelsea.

So these two main factors explain why this happened. And I'm damn worried, because I used as a sign of progress the fact that we were able to keep our key players. And now I'm seeing the key players wanting to leave. It's a delicate moment for the club, and IMHO Rafa is the right man for it. We have to spend well if we want to keep the likes of Reina and Torres interested.

by **loopyliverpool** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:57 am

LFC are not progressing as much as a top team should and the top players are going to start itching for moves if their is failure (particularly qualifying for the CL). Mascherano was being courted by Barca last summer and his agent did not disguise this. I think you have to question players like Mascherano and his patriot Tevez about their motives. Are they motivated by football or money? Liverpool's problem at the moment is that they can't offer the quality of football a top player would wish for and any rumblings at the club are going to be reported in the press. If the player really wants to leave then the best option is to sell rather than lose out again on transfer fees... (McManaman/Owen). When alls said and done no one player is bigger than the club and if a player goes we will replace him. IMO as great a tackler Mascherano is he is limited going forward and has he ever scored a goal for us? Mascherano is good but certainly not irreplaceable.

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Best players wanting away.... - Is it coincidence?

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