Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

Oh i agree most players prob all want to win trophies but will have to say that us winning trophies wouldnt of kept Xabi as Zidane said and it wouldnt be a reason for masher to stay (thats if he wants to leave ) . Remember it was only last season we came close and i know we are going throu a bad spell but im pretty sure the players know they are a good team capable of winning trophies .

I think like some of us they realised that last season was a golden opportunity, and that to make the step up we needed to invest more money in the squad. So they hear that Silva Villa and Upson are coming. Then they hear well maybe Silva  and Upson. Then its just Upson...... before we finally sign the big greek 

[Benny The Noon]

Then who do they look at for the reasons why that investment didnt come in

Or the players could of looked at the signings of Aqualini and Johnson and think this could be the next step up but feck we played like sh.it then injuries and now they have got to think - we all need to turn this around and start producing the football we all know we can play instead of looking to jump ship.

[LFC2007]

You are right about one thing though, if we don't start winning trophies players will look elsewhere.  Which is why I was disappointed when we were knocked out of the CC this season, I want silverware.  Any silverware.  I would take a fourth place finish if you could give me an FA Cup.  The players need to feel like we can win something or like Saint said they will look elsewhere.

This I agree with.

There has to be some dissilusionment around the dressing room simply because of where we are, but a good question would be to ask what our key players put that down to. Of course they'll all be feeling their share of the responsibility and to a certain extent that'll detract from the wider perspective, but given the deep mire we're in they'll surely recognise that something more fundamental is wrong with the club - more than just a 'dip in form' would lead you to believe. As with the forum, you'll no doubt have different takes on it, but 'is it retrievable in the long-run?' (are we going to return to winning trophies) has to be the question they'll eventually have to confront. If we reduce that question down to i) Is the manager capable?, and ii) Will we have competent owners capable of providing stability and investment, then between the two, what do the players see success at the club more likely to depend upon? I think in general, it is more likely they will see it as being the ownership situation.

I say this because if I cast my mind back to the summer, I think Reina came out in the press expressing his disappointment at our apparent inability to compete with the big boys in the transfer market. It goes without saying that in the long-term, if we continue to fall behind the others in a financial sense, we'll need a manager capable of working on a very tight budget. Wenger did it, but laid the foundations under very different circumstances, and so at any rate success would be a very tall order going forward (ceteris paribus).

Compare the difference a change in manager might have, with a change in ownership.....

[LFC2007]

I think we will have to agree to disagree Benny. I agree there are a lot of other reasons as well,  but I stand by my point that if we were winning things most players wouldn't WANT to go. Most players would rather have trophies than money. We have gone three years without a cup , thats a lot of time out of a players career. When you are winning cups, you can put up with problems more than when you can't see where the next win is coming from.

That raises the question; how much is enough?

I mean, assume we had won an FA cup and a league cup in the last three seasons; would that in itself have been enough to sustain Alonso's interest?

I'm not so sure it would. Granted, if we'd won the league or the UCL, then perhaps, but I still think that such an opportunity was always likely to have considerable appeal to a player like Alonso.

Real Madrid and Barca are capable of luring players from any club.

[made in UK]

Read the last two pages, its like a conversation between my younger brother and dad.

Dad: When you grow up son girls will become more of a priority.
B: Why?
Dad: Its life son, you may runaway from them now in the playground, but when your older things change.
B: Why?
Dad: They just do son, they just do.
B: But why Dad?
Dad: As you grow older son you mature and go through an adolescent stage in life, you become active in other ways.
B: Why?
Dad: Sigh
B: Why?
B: Why
B: Why
Dad: Heres a five dollars go and buy yourself some lollies or something.
B: Why?
D: BECAUSE YOUR GETTING ON MY FECKING NERVES!!!

[bigmick]

Read the last two pages, its like a conversation between my younger brother and dad.

Dad: When you grow up son girls will become more of a priority.
B: Why?
Dad: Its life son, you may runaway from them now in the playground, but when your older things change.
B: Why?
Dad: They just do son, they just do.
B: But why Dad?
Dad: As you grow older son you mature and go through an adolescent stage in life, you become active in other ways.
B: Why?
Dad: Sigh
B: Why?
B: Why
B: Why
Dad: Heres a five dollars go and buy yourself some lollies or something.
B: Why?
D: BECAUSE YOUR GETTING ON MY FECKING NERVES!!!

There are times when it's best just to give it up as you know the chances of sensible discussion are zero. The last couple of pages were one of those times.

[Benny The Noon]

Oh im sorry - next time shall i not talk about the subject in hand and speak about football and our team and shall i fill my posts full of little digs towards manager or players and little praises for the special one instead to please the forum police ? Would that be more sensible for you ? If not then please do inform us all what would please and what people should post that would make it more sensible for you ?

I can now see why people think your a little high and mighty around the forum .

[account deleted by request]

I think we will have to agree to disagree Benny. I agree there are a lot of other reasons as well,  but I stand by my point that if we were winning things most players wouldn't WANT to go. Most players would rather have trophies than money. We have gone three years without a cup , thats a lot of time out of a players career. When you are winning cups, you can put up with problems more than when you can't see where the next win is coming from.

That raises the question; how much is enough?

I mean, assume we had won an FA cup and a league cup in the last three seasons; would that in itself have been enough to sustain Alonso's interest?

I'm not so sure it would. Granted, if we'd won the league or the UCL, then perhaps, but I still think that such an opportunity was always likely to have considerable appeal to a player like Alonso.

Real Madrid and Barca are capable of luring players from any club.

I would guess that because Alonso had been here for five years he had a number of reasons to go, with the only real reason to stay being if we were successful. Whether it would have needed CL/TITLES to keep him is anyones guess.

I do think that top players expect to win the top trophies and if they don't, they start to look around to see what's on offer elsewhere. 

We have owners who can't/won't invest, a manager who's constantly at odds with the owners, a club that has won nothing for three years, and fans that won't be happy till we win the title. British taxation/weather/crime/language etc etc why wouldn't they look around and see green grass elsewhere?   

Most of the players now have little loyalty to the club they play for. Why should they when they come from all over the world. They play for the money but also the glory, and if they can get more elsewhere most will. To keep the best players you need success and money, unfortunately we have neither at the moment.

Would Gerrard still be here if it wasn't his hometown club?

[Benny The Noon]

I think we will have to agree to disagree Benny. I agree there are a lot of other reasons as well,  but I stand by my point that if we were winning things most players wouldn't WANT to go. Most players would rather have trophies than money. We have gone three years without a cup , thats a lot of time out of a players career. When you are winning cups, you can put up with problems more than when you can't see where the next win is coming from.

That raises the question; how much is enough?

I mean, assume we had won an FA cup and a league cup in the last three seasons; would that in itself have been enough to sustain Alonso's interest?

I'm not so sure it would. Granted, if we'd won the league or the UCL, then perhaps, but I still think that such an opportunity was always likely to have considerable appeal to a player like Alonso.

Real Madrid and Barca are capable of luring players from any club.

I would guess that because Alonso had been here for five years he had a number of reasons to go, with the only real reason to stay being if we were successful. Whether it would have needed CL/TITLES to keep him is anyones guess.

I do think that top players expect to win the top trophies and if they don't, they start to look around to see what's on offer elsewhere. 

We have owners who can't/won't invest, a manager who's constantly at odds with the owners, a club that has won nothing for three years, and fans that won't be happy till we win the title. British taxation/weather/crime/language etc etc why wouldn't they look around and see green grass elsewhere?   

Most of the players now have little loyalty to the club they play for. Why should they when they come from all over the world. They play for the money but also the glory, and if they can get more elsewhere most will. To keep the best players you need success and money, unfortunately we have neither at the moment.

Would Gerrard still be here if it wasn't his hometown club?

Do you really think Xabi would of changed his mind if we won the title and turned down madrid ? It seemed to me he made his mind up way before the end of the season .

[account deleted by request]

I think we will have to agree to disagree Benny. I agree there are a lot of other reasons as well,  but I stand by my point that if we were winning things most players wouldn't WANT to go. Most players would rather have trophies than money. We have gone three years without a cup , thats a lot of time out of a players career. When you are winning cups, you can put up with problems more than when you can't see where the next win is coming from.

That raises the question; how much is enough?

I mean, assume we had won an FA cup and a league cup in the last three seasons; would that in itself have been enough to sustain Alonso's interest?

I'm not so sure it would. Granted, if we'd won the league or the UCL, then perhaps, but I still think that such an opportunity was always likely to have considerable appeal to a player like Alonso.

Real Madrid and Barca are capable of luring players from any club.

I would guess that because Alonso had been here for five years he had a number of reasons to go, with the only real reason to stay being if we were successful. Whether it would have needed CL/TITLES to keep him is anyones guess.

I do think that top players expect to win the top trophies and if they don't, they start to look around to see what's on offer elsewhere. 

We have owners who can't/won't invest, a manager who's constantly at odds with the owners, a club that has won nothing for three years, and fans that won't be happy till we win the title. British taxation/weather/crime/language etc etc why wouldn't they look around and see green grass elsewhere?   

Most of the players now have little loyalty to the club they play for. Why should they when they come from all over the world. They play for the money but also the glory, and if they can get more elsewhere most will. To keep the best players you need success and money, unfortunately we have neither at the moment.

Would Gerrard still be here if it wasn't his hometown club?

Do you really think Xabi would of changed his mind if we won the title and turned down madrid ? It seemed to me he made his mind up way before the end of the season .

I don't know, but at least there might have been a chance. From the little he has said I THINK that maybe some of the best characters have left(Hamann/Hyypia/Finnan/Riise/Garcia/Arbeloa)and maybe some of the players he was close to have perhaps become closer to Torres now?

I heard a while back that Gerrard had a bust up with Alonso after the West  Ham game(when we lost) and shortly afterwards Gerrard began openly touting for Barry, which may have upset Xabi almost as much as Rafa trying to sell him.

If we were winning cups these things might have been irrelevant, but when a few years go by without a trophy maybe the decision to leave is a lot easier?

[Benny The Noon]

See your point mate but i think with alonso his mind was made up last summer and i think he went all out to secure himself a great move to Madrid and dont think anything would of changed his mind - winning or not winning .

[LFC2007]

It goes without saying that winning trophies will make it easier for us to keep our best players, but if you've got Real and Barca coming in, it's hard to fend them off at any rate. Especially if they're Spanish players who have a desire to move back to Spain.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Read the last two pages, its like a conversation between my younger brother and dad.

Dad: When you grow up son girls will become more of a priority.
B: Why?
Dad: Its life son, you may runaway from them now in the playground, but when your older things change.
B: Why?
Dad: They just do son, they just do.
B: But why Dad?
Dad: As you grow older son you mature and go through an adolescent stage in life, you become active in other ways.
B: Why?
Dad: Sigh
B: Why?
B: Why
B: Why
Dad: Heres a five dollars go and buy yourself some lollies or something.
B: Why?
D: BECAUSE YOUR GETTING ON MY FECKING NERVES!!!

GYBS 

[neil]

Unfortunately this is what happens when you rely on foreign players...

in this thread the 'money shot' came early

[maguskwt]

I agree with Benny on here that so far it might not be as simple as players leaving to win trophies elsewhere... Xabi's case is definitely not that simple. It is a good theory by s@int about a possible bust up with Gerrard/ manager and not getting along with the context he was in. Hyppia, Hamann, Riise, Finan, all didn't leave at their peaks. They left because they wanted more playing time. And they didn't leave to better clubs. Only Xabi left at his peak and was a real lost. Arbeloa was too much of a role player for us to have issues about. The contribution that Arbeloa made could be easily replaced as compared to Xabi's which we have with Johnson.

However, I also agree that if we don't win titles soon and if our team does not show improvement and continue to sink, it will be as simple as players leaving to win trophies elsewhere. I dont' think that it has come to that stage just yet. When it comes to Mascherano though, I feel like I don't really trust the guy. He doesn't seem to be as sincere or as professional as Xabi. It was not too long ago that he was claiming he'll never leave LFC because he owed Rafa who rescued him from West Ham. Now that Barcelona has shown some interest he's not been very vocal about his support for the club and even let rumours fly that he wanted to leave. I don't like this sort of attitude to be perfectly honest.