Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dazzer** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:32 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Lucas has been very good the last two games . Everyone can surely see how much he's improved this season . Yes he's still making the odd mistake ,but so does every player .He's been all over the pitch ,up and down ,getting stuck in and playing the right passes .Keeping the midfield ticking over and influencing the game which is the important bit . He just neeeds to work on his calmness infront of goal now and he'll be fine , still no alonso of course but getting better all the time . Don't feel so worried now when he named on the team sheet .

Agreed his stats prove how well he is playing better tackle rate then any of chelsea boys(2nd best in prem).Better pass % then Fabregas and masch(4th best in prem).

You can't argue stats they are proof overall he is playing well in fact one of best in the league atm.Its just basic hate for him with no facts to back it up and this is not on support your players they need it in comming weeks.

If I was to blame any thing for our lack of wins its 2 things.1. lack of top striker options.2. lack of depth of squad.Which is down to a mix of Owners and some poor buys from Rafa.

by **made in UK** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:37 am

Sabre wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Lucas has been very good the last two games . Everyone can surely see how much he's improved this season . Yes he's still making the odd mistake ,but so does every player .He's been all over the pitch ,up and down ,getting stuck in and playing the right passes .Keeping the midfield ticking over and influencing the game which is the important bit . He just neeeds to work on his calmness infront of goal now and he'll be fine , still no alonso of course but getting better all the time . Don't feel so worried now when he named on the team sheet .

Normally I don't have problems to agree the praises of almost all of our players, but in the last game I was pretty surprised that Lucas got the MOM, if I have to be honest.

It's difficult to argue sometimes and explain why, especially when the stats say he had so many "well done" passes, but I don't think his kind of game is what we needed to win the game.

Perhaps it's just that I'm a bit frustrated and patientless...

Lucas was my man of the match. I think the way he played and his game style insured we didn't lose. Also he managed to get himself in some very good positions further upfield. Something Mascheranco and Alonso don't/didn't do often and well enough. I was impressed with his tackling, distribution of the ball and his engine. It was good to see as he's never been a favourite of mine.

by **made in UK** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:40 am

Dazzer wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Lucas has been very good the last two games . Everyone can surely see how much he's improved this season . Yes he's still making the odd mistake ,but so does every player .He's been all over the pitch ,up and down ,getting stuck in and playing the right passes .Keeping the midfield ticking over and influencing the game which is the important bit . He just neeeds to work on his calmness infront of goal now and he'll be fine , still no alonso of course but getting better all the time . Don't feel so worried now when he named on the team sheet .

Agreed his stats prove how well he is playing better tackle rate then any of chelsea boys(2nd best in prem).Better pass % then Fabregas and masch(4th best in prem).

You can't argue stats they are proof overall he is playing well in fact one of best in the league atm.Its just basic hate for him with no facts to back it up and this is not on support your players they need it in comming weeks.

If I was to blame any thing for our lack of wins its 2 things.1. lack of top striker options.2. lack of depth of squad.Which is down to a mix of Owners and some poor buys from Rafa.

Not sure about that; you can't argue against your own visual sensory register.

by **andy_g** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:41 am

i kind of agree with sabre here. but i also agree that his game has been getting better and better and he's contributing a lot to the team now. the stats while accurate can be misleading though. ok, he's got the 2nd best tackle rate and fourth best pass rate but we need to consider the effectiveness of those passes as well. the fact he's been passing and tackling well doesn't mean he's also been one of the best players in the premiership.

someone who can talk football better than i can will hopefully expand on that a little more.

by **Dazzer** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:49 am

andy_g wrote:i kind of agree with sabre here. but i also agree that his game has been getting better and better and he's contributing a lot to the team now. the stats while accurate can be misleading though. ok, he's got the 2nd best tackle rate and fourth best pass rate but we need to consider the effectiveness of those passes as well. the fact he's been passing and tackling well doesn't mean he's also been one of the best players in the premiership.

someone who can talk football better than i can will hopefully expand on that a little more.

Yes I understand stats in there own right don't say he is best in prem and I like to point out I never said he is best in prem I said he was 2nd and 4th in those areas of his game.But you have to remember the role he also being asked to play by Rafa and that is ball winning midfielder.He is not an attacking midfielder.Imo he could be if Rafa gave him the freedom to be one but he is a ball winning midfielder and he is doing that job as well as any one in the prem atm.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:14 pm

aCe' wrote:hahaha... Lucas ...

aaaa... cant wait till he fcks off back to Gremio or wherever it is he came from... fcking joke of a player... cant expect to win anything with players like him in the side....

Good constructive post their adding lots of depth to the debate

by **The_Rock** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:33 pm

Have to agree with some here in that lucas has been more impressive than mascherano this season. The latter has been that bad......(that is being lenient on him cos i think he has been shocking).

On current form.....i rather have lucas in the team ahead of Mascherano (to partner aquaman). At least lucas can put in some nice passes....he gets into the opposition box to contribute to our attack.

by **bunglemark2** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:10 pm

The_Rock wrote:Have to agree with some here in that lucas has been more impressive than mascherano this season. The latter has been that bad......(that is being lenient on him cos i think he has been shocking).

On current form.....i rather have lucas in the team ahead of Mascherano (to partner aquaman). At least lucas can put in some nice passes ....he gets into the opposition box to contribute to our attack.

Gotta laugh at that one

Most of his passes are sideways or backwards....

But granted he has been better in the last few games. Probably (coincidentally ?) decided to up his game now that Aquilani is ready to challenge for a first team slot. But in reality I would tend to drop Masch until he sorts his head out....he's been shocking lately....Maybe SG as club captain needs to give him a good kick up the hoop and remind him what's what (might do his groin in though ! :sniffle

)

by **The_Rock** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:15 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:Gotta laugh at that one
Most of his passes are sideways or backwards....

Well.......in a perfect world...i wouldn't have lucas (or even mascherano) in my ideal team. I prefer my defensive midfielder in the mould of Hamann or Essien

But gotta work with what we have....

by **Owzat** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:15 pm

Dazzer wrote:
andy_g wrote:i kind of agree with sabre here. but i also agree that his game has been getting better and better and he's contributing a lot to the team now. the stats while accurate can be misleading though. ok, he's got the 2nd best tackle rate and fourth best pass rate but we need to consider the effectiveness of those passes as well. the fact he's been passing and tackling well doesn't mean he's also been one of the best players in the premiership.

someone who can talk football better than i can will hopefully expand on that a little more.

Yes I understand stats in there own right don't say he is best in prem and I like to point out I never said he is best in prem I said he was 2nd and 4th in those areas of his game.But you have to remember the role he also being asked to play by Rafa and that is ball winning midfielder.He is not an attacking midfielder.Imo he could be if Rafa gave him the freedom to be one but he is a ball winning midfielder and he is doing that job as well as any one in the prem atm.

A misplaced pass is (usually) possession given away, whether fifty yards forward or three yards backwards.

I was thinking how bad and wasteful some of our shooting is from distance, that too is wasted possession. Do people lambast Mascherano for shooting when it is so woeful? I'd be happy if he passed the ball three yards sideways or backwards rather than terminally end a move as often as he does

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:01 pm

Lucas and Mascherano, when both paired together, have been outstanding. Particularly Lucas. Anyone who thinks he isn't good enough now hasn't a clue.

by **stmichael** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:14 pm

Anyone who still doesn't rate Lucas after this season so far never will rate the lad. Certain supporters and journalists have blind spots when it comes to certain players.

Even if he's not the greatest player in the world he makes the most of what he has got. Compare thsi to somebody like Babel or Pennant who both have a lot of talent but don't know how to use it.

by **big al** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:58 pm

Lucas is a good player, he will develop and be a better player but he's not a replacement for Alonso. Anyone here who says he is is being silly. Lucas was bought to do the job Mascherano done last year. He's a holding midfielder and I think with potential to be one of the very best. The problem for Lucas is that he's being compared to Alonso and that very wrong in my book. A team is made of various types and styles of players. Souness was one of the very best tackling midfielders in the game but he was no King Kenny. Leave Lucas alone and let the lad develop he's doing his best which for a 22 year old is pretty good in my book. Look elsewhere for the problem its not Lucas's fault.

by **The_Rock** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:06 pm

big al wrote:Lucas is a good player, he will develop and be a better player but he's not a replacement for Alonso. Anyone here who says he is is being silly. Lucas was bought to do the job Mascherano done last year. He's a holding midfielder and I think with potential to be one of the very best.

Precisely........ That's why contrary to "popular" belief (

) , a lucas and mascherano midfield are not an outstanding combo cos we will NEVER win the Premier-league with those 2 in the starting lineup.

It might work for the odd game....it might work against manure when everyone is giving 110%....but we won't create $hit with this midfield pairing against teams which park the bus.

It has to be Lucas or Mascherano once Aquaman is fit.

But have to give props to Lucas.....He has been one of our better performers this season.

by **Dazzer** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:15 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:Have to agree with some here in that lucas has been more impressive than mascherano this season. The latter has been that bad......(that is being lenient on him cos i think he has been shocking).

On current form.....i rather have lucas in the team ahead of Mascherano (to partner aquaman). At least lucas can put in some nice passes ....he gets into the opposition box to contribute to our attack.

Gotta laugh at that one
Most of his passes are sideways or backwards....

But granted he has been better in the last few games. Probably (coincidentally ?) decided to up his game now that Aquilani is ready to challenge for a first team slot. But in reality I would tend to drop Masch until he sorts his head out....he's been shocking lately....Maybe SG as club captain needs to give him a good kick up the hoop and remind him what's what (might do his groin in though ! )

You sir is a grade A Fanny sniffer.

Thread to thread picking apart other peoples posts with out adding any thing your self bit of a coward it seems.

In case you didn't know Lucus is told to do a job in midfield and thats to win the ball , he is young and thats all Rafa trusts him to do atm and he is doing it well.He is not experienced enough to be a deep laying player makers yet but it will come.Do you really expect him to do a job as well as Alonso when it took Alonso 3 years to really make that role his own ?

In football its all baby steps nothing happens right away each game adding to a players experience , its takes years to master a role such as a play maker.But from what I seen of Lucus if there was ever a player who could play that role at age of 25 it be him you wait and see.

Just ask your self 1 thing do you remember Gerrard smacking 40 yards passes around when he was 21-22 80% success rate ? no ? didn't think so.

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